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Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership

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  • 01-08-2020, 07:59 PM
    Mr.Fix_It
    Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: PA

    I've searched for local attorneys and no one wants to touch this. I understand marijuana is still scheduled and illegal federally. I understand that any firearm purchase require the completion of federal Form 4473. I understand that because my State has legalized marijuana, I must still acknowledge that I am an "unlawful user of marijuana" (under federal law, not state) in Question 11e, of Form 4473.

    If I recind/turn in my PA license to carry firearm (LCTF), am I permitted to keep my firearms secure in my home only?

    I found an article here that indicates that the State has decided it "will no longer provide the names of medical marijuana patients to law enforcement."

    https://www.inquirer.com/philly/busi...-20180112.html

    A bipartisan outcry led by marijuana, gun and privacy advocates spurred state officials to reshape state policy. Patient medical marijuana cards will no longer be scanned and run through the state computer network.

    "In the case that law enforcement needs to verify a patient's participation in the program, they will rely on the patient's medical marijuana ID card," a Health Department spokeswoman said. "While federal law prohibits anyone to purchase a firearm while using medical marijuana, a patient's status in the program will not be verified during the background check process through JNET."

    Can anyone provide any opinions or referrals? Thanks.
  • 01-08-2020, 08:01 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    It's still a violation of federal law to possess a firearm when you are an unlawful (there is no such thing as a federally lawful) user of marijuana. It has nothing to do with whether you've got a carry permit or not.
  • 01-08-2020, 08:48 PM
    L-1
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    BATF issued an explanatory memo regarding it nine years ago. Although it addressed medical marijuana, the principles behind their interpretation are the same.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/op...poses/download
  • 01-08-2020, 10:17 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post


    Can anyone provide any opinions or referrals? Thanks.

    Opinion?

    If you want to avoid federal prosecution give up the weed or give up the gun.

    Otherwise you take your chances if you want both.
  • 01-08-2020, 10:29 PM
    Mercy&Grace
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    The state not routinely providing the information does not mean the federal government cannot get the information if they want it.
  • 01-09-2020, 06:23 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mercy&Grace
    View Post
    The state not routinely providing the information does not mean the federal government cannot get the information if they want it.

    It also doesn't mean it's not illegal just because it may be possible to get away with it.

    And as Mercy suggests, stranger things have happened than the feds deciding to cross-reference databases (such as old 4473's with medical marijuana issuances). Of course the problem is that possessing a card itself doesn't prove you are a user any more than possession of a firearm makes you a murderer.
  • 01-09-2020, 06:25 AM
    Mr.Fix_It
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mercy&Grace
    View Post
    The state not routinely providing the information does not mean the federal government cannot get the information if they want it.

    If they want it. How? Are they routinely cross-checking the medical marijuana patient list with any lists of firearm purchases and permit registrations? Sure, the info is available, but they have to have a reason to be looking at it, correct?

    Let me ask this practically - I rescind my LTCF to the County. Obtain proof that the license has been invalidated. I then apply for my medical marijuana card and use marijuana legally. I never again purchase a firearm or apply to carry a firearm, and in effect never come into contact with a Form 4473 again.

    I keep a single firearm I my home for self defense - the firearm remains solely in my home. That's going to be "found out" about? To rephrase, by using medical marijuana, not only would I not be able to purchase, carry, or possess a firearm, but I also have to liquidate or destroy ALL existing firearms that I've inherited over 3 generations?
  • 01-09-2020, 06:45 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    The reason is they are looking for people committing felonies. What reason do you think they need?

    It is a federal felony for you to possess a firearm while using marijuana. PERIOD. There's no current weasel room on this. This isn't the "how do I break the law and get away with it forum." We can't advise you to break the law. You should try over on hightimes.com.
  • 01-09-2020, 07:41 AM
    Mr.Fix_It
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    The reason is they are looking for people committing felonies. What reason do you think they need?

    This isn't the "how do I break the law and get away with it forum." We can't advise you to break the law. You should try over on hightimes.com.

    While I appreciate your sarcasm, I am looking for opinions - I'll make my own decision. I also stated in the OP that I'm having a difficult time finding actual lawyers to speak to - all say the laws in that area are changing too rapidly, or that they do not have enough experience with firearms to provide an opinion.

    My purpose for discussion is that the State of PA specifically addressed this issue. I understand federal trumps state law, but I'm curious as to what this change in the law in PA actually does, or protects. The State obviously recognizes it as an issue and specifically rewrote their bill to address it.

    So now without getting into an 10A tangent, why is the Fed going to come in to PA and specifically contradict that? The Fed is actively looking into the 28 states that have legalized medical marijuana to find any past or present individuals who ehave ever had any paperwork tying them to the possession of a firearm?

    And as flyingron points out, simply "showing up" on a medical marijuana database (HIPPA??), how does that prove I'm a "habitual user"?
  • 01-09-2020, 08:17 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Form 4473 and the federal laws it is based on does not say "habitual user". I says...

    Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
    Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
  • 01-09-2020, 08:32 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post

    I keep a single firearm I my home for self defense - the firearm remains solely in my home. That's going to be "found out" about?

    Sure. The one time you use it for self defense, the police come, investigate, impound the gun (temporarily), the possession goes on record which can then be accessed by the feds along with your medical marijuana card.

    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post

    To rephrase, by using medical marijuana, not only would I not be able to purchase, carry, or possess a firearm, but I also have to liquidate or destroy ALL existing firearms that I've inherited over 3 generations?

    Yes.

    Using marijuana and possessing a firearm is illegal under federal law. What part of that aren't you getting?

    Look, you can go the rest of your life using marijuana and owning firearms and maybe nothing will ever come of it. But Murphy's Law says whatever can go wrong will go wrong.

    We've explained the risks. It's entirely up to you now.
  • 01-09-2020, 08:45 AM
    Mr.Fix_It
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Thanks all for the input.
  • 01-09-2020, 09:06 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Thanks all for the input.

    Agreed but you could always just not use pot.
  • 01-09-2020, 09:27 AM
    Mr.Fix_It
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Agreed but you could always just not use pot.

    One possible decision. The Fed really needs to just reclassify it. I'll just keep bidding my time. 28 states have authorized medicinal marijuana. Several states have outright decriminalized it. Just a matter of time it seems. I'm more personally concerned about the people habitually taking SSRIs and carrying guns than I am the pot heads.
  • 01-09-2020, 09:45 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    I'm more personally concerned about the people habitually taking SSRIs and carrying guns than I am the pot heads.

    Yes, that.

    And alcohol is classified as a depressant, and the law is not used against hop-heads
  • 01-09-2020, 10:23 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    One possible decision. The Fed really needs to just reclassify it. I'll just keep bidding my time. 28 states have authorized medicinal marijuana. Several states have outright decriminalized it. Just a matter of time it seems. I'm more personally concerned about the people habitually taking SSRIs and carrying guns than I am the pot heads.

    I don't necessarily disagree but the law is the law.
  • 01-09-2020, 10:49 AM
    CONNOR99
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree but the law is the law.

    True, but just as not all laws are the same, not all risks are the same either. The Fed could care less about personal use of pot.

    As for pot vs. alcohol, alcohol is ten times stronger. Local police also know this and apply the law accordingly.

    To quote laws and statutes regarding pot means a person is out of touch with reality.
  • 01-09-2020, 01:34 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    This is not sarcasm (except for the comment about hightimes.com).
  • 01-09-2020, 02:41 PM
    joef
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    While I appreciate your sarcasm, I am looking for opinions - I'll make my own decision. I also stated in the OP that I'm having a difficult time finding actual lawyers to speak to - all say the laws in that area are changing too rapidly, or that they do not have enough experience with firearms to provide an opinion.

    Or it could be the lawyers do not want to be party to a conspiracy to violate federal laws which would get them disbarred and themselves facing federal felony charges.
  • 01-09-2020, 03:02 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    I agree 100% with that sentiment but nobody is going to have to pry marijuana from my cold dead fingers.

    :friendly_wink:
  • 01-09-2020, 03:03 PM
    Mercy&Grace
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr.Fix_It
    View Post
    One possible decision. The Fed really needs to just reclassify it. I'll just keep bidding my time. 28 states have authorized medicinal marijuana. Several states have outright decriminalized it. Just a matter of time it seems. I'm more personally concerned about the people habitually taking SSRIs and carrying guns than I am the pot heads.

    Marijuana is not harmless. There can be serious side effects when marijuana is used with some prescription medications. Marijuana has also been shown to make some mental illnesses worse and cause some mental illnesses. Much, much more medical research needs to be done before marijuana is reclassified as a lower schedule drug. Marijuana can also be addicting.
  • 01-09-2020, 05:59 PM
    RJR
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    Quote:

    Quoting joef
    View Post
    Or it could be the lawyers do not want to be party to a conspiracy to violate federal laws which would get them disbarred and themselves facing federal felony charges.

    Arguing a point of law in Court does not constitute such as you outline.
  • 01-17-2020, 07:55 PM
    Daniel Palos
    Re: Pa Medical Marijuana and Firearms Ownership
    There is no power to Prohibit since the, nothing but Repeal, of that bad idea last millennium. Those laws should be challenged at every opportunity.
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