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Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tenants

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  • 12-09-2019, 10:41 PM
    dp92188
    Shared water line - I am paying for my neighbor's water
    My question involves real estate located in the State of: California

    I purchased a house which is technically now classified as a condo, because the lot was split many years ago and another house was built behind mine. The house shares a water line with house behind it, however the houses are not separately metered for water use and myself and the owners of the other property split the water bill 50/50. I looked at the CCRs for the unincorporated "Condo" association and there is language saying each owner has the right to separately meter their own water line, otherwise the houses will split the cost.

    As of now a couple with two infants are living in the other house (they are renters) and I am the only person living in my house (which I own). Given the fact the mother is home all day taking care of the babies and there are more people living in that house, it is safe to assume that they are using much more water than me. I am assuming that the owners are including water as part of their tenant's rent and therefore profiting off of me as I am almost undoubtedly paying for some of the other tenant's water. I tried emailing the owners of the other property to request paying (1/3) of the water bill (which is probably still more than I should have to pay) , but they refused to agree to it.

    When I talked Dev to services for the City, the engineer said I cannot do a water meter split because of the configuration and would have to install a separate water line which could cost about $6000.

    Given all this, do I have legal grounds to force the owner of the other property to split the cost of a new water line? As I mentioned, I would think it is illegal for the other owner to provide his tenants water which I am essentially paying for.

    Please let me know what i can do, this gets under my skin everyday as I wake up to water gushing through pipes that I am essentially paying for.
  • 12-09-2019, 11:05 PM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    You could also put a private meter at one or both sides of where the line Tee's to either house. Since it is downstream of the utility's meter, and on private property, the utility has no say.
  • 12-10-2019, 06:27 AM
    llworking
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting MaltbyMark
    View Post
    You could also put a private meter at one or both sides of where the line Tee's to either house. Since it is downstream of the utility's meter, and on private property, the utility has no say.

    That is assuming that the line actually Tee's. From the description of one house being built behind the other, there may be no T.
  • 12-10-2019, 06:56 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Shared water line - I am paying for my neighbor's water
    Quote:

    Quoting dp92188
    View Post

    Given all this, do I have legal grounds to force the owner of the other property to split the cost of a new water line?

    No. You bought the house, presumably knowing that there was only one water line and one meter for both houses. This was something you should have addressed as part of your purchase contract. You are probably stuck with the status quo unless you want to spend more on litigation than you would spend on a new meter and water line.

    Quote:

    Quoting dp92188
    View Post

    I would think it is illegal for the other owner to provide his tenants water which I am essentially paying for.

    Nope. Perfectly legal. No law against it. It's not even a civil wrong. You agreed on a 50/50 split without taking into consideration who uses what. That's a contract. To modify the contract you need the agreement of both owners.

    Quote:

    Quoting dp92188
    View Post

    Please let me know what i can do, this gets under my skin everyday as I wake up to water gushing through pipes that I am essentially paying for.

    Let's put this into perspective.

    How much is the water bill each month? Give me a dollar amount. If it varies, give me the monthly average.

    In whose name is the water account?
  • 12-10-2019, 08:14 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    That is assuming that the line actually Tee's. From the description of one house being built behind the other, there may be no T.

    One meter and two houses means that there must be a tee somewhere.
  • 12-10-2019, 08:31 AM
    llworking
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting MaltbyMark
    View Post
    One meter and two houses means that there must be a tee somewhere.

    Why? One house is behind another. There is no reason why the main pipe couldn't go straight from the street in front of house number one, under the house, and then straight on to house number 2. Now, if the houses were side by side, or the water line come from the side of the houses, then I agree that there would be a T. However these houses are described as one being in front of the other, with the front house being there first.
  • 12-10-2019, 08:42 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    There is no reason why the main pipe couldn't go straight from the street in front of house number one, under the house, and then straight on to house number 2

    That would still require a tee
  • 12-10-2019, 09:13 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    The tee might be inaccessible.
  • 12-10-2019, 09:33 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    The tee might be inaccessible.

    Wouldn't matter. Put a private meter at the first accessible location downstream of the tee feeding the first house
  • 12-10-2019, 03:17 PM
    budwad
    Re: Shared water line - I am paying for my neighbor's water
    Quote:

    Quoting dp92188
    View Post
    My question involves real estate located in the State of: California

    I purchased a house which is technically now classified as a condo, because the lot was split many years ago and another house was built behind mine. The house shares a water line with house behind it, however the houses are not separately metered for water use and myself and the owners of the other property split the water bill 50/50. I looked at the CCRs for the unincorporated "Condo" association and there is language saying each owner has the right to separately meter their own water line, otherwise the houses will split the cost.

    As of now a couple with two infants are living in the other house (they are renters) and I am the only person living in my house (which I own). Given the fact the mother is home all day taking care of the babies and there are more people living in that house, it is safe to assume that they are using much more water than me. I am assuming that the owners are including water as part of their tenant's rent and therefore profiting off of me as I am almost undoubtedly paying for some of the other tenant's water. I tried emailing the owners of the other property to request paying (1/3) of the water bill (which is probably still more than I should have to pay) , but they refused to agree to it.

    When I talked Dev to services for the City, the engineer said I cannot do a water meter split because of the configuration and would have to install a separate water line which could cost about $6000.

    Given all this, do I have legal grounds to force the owner of the other property to split the cost of a new water line? As I mentioned, I would think it is illegal for the other owner to provide his tenants water which I am essentially paying for.

    Please let me know what i can do, this gets under my skin everyday as I wake up to water gushing through pipes that I am essentially paying for.

    What you need to do is to check your jurisdiction's ordnances about the water company utility ordinances. In most jurisdictions, there is a requirement for each dwelling to have it's own meter connected to a municipal water supply.

    For example (since I don't know your city or municipality, I will use LA).



    Quote:

    Sec. 21-4. - Meter required; meter readings; right of entry.

    A meter shall be installed upon each connection to the system which shall be read by a duly authorized agent of the town, who shall have access to the premises of each customer for such purpose at all times and also for the purpose of removing any such meter and any pipe of the town located on the premises in the event service is discontinued to such customer. [B]Every residence shall have its own meter. A duplex, triplex or quadplex shall have two (2), three (3) or four (4) meters respectively. [/B]Apartment complexes or commercial developments may have either a master meter or individual unit meters. If individual unit meters are utilized, connections must be piped so that meters are set within a short distance from a town main which is located in a right-of-way or public servitude. The meter itself shall be set adjacent to the edge of the right-of-way or servitude limit. Each customer, by having or leaving his premises connected to the system and accepting service therefrom, shall consent and agree to such access and such removal.

    (Ord. No. 795, § 4, 1-7-08)
    https://library.municode.com/la/kind...Id=COOR_CH21UT

    So instead of asking the purveyor about what the law says, ask your municipal or city attorney. And then you may be able to compel the owner of the rental unit to put in a separate waterline. The purveyor may have to pay the cost and thus will tell you anything.
  • 12-13-2019, 07:44 AM
    dp92188
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    As I said, the engineer at Development services for the city looked at the configuration and said I wouldn’t be able to just do a water meter split.

    @adjusterjack thank you for your input. I will say this was my first house purchase and I didn’t know everything I was doing. I had a Redfin agent who, looking back, was not very good but at the time I felt rushed because I had already backed out of another deal which wasted 3 weeks of my time and I was being forced out of my old apartment because the building was being sold.

    Very little attention was given to the fact that this was condo and part of a “condo association” even though there is no HOA. During the final walk-through of the house the owner did mention “the water is shared” and it did put red flags off in my head but as I said I was in a bind and just thought I would figure it out later.

    So the water bill hovers around $360-400+ every two months which comes out to about $180-200 a month. Both houses use 300-350 gallons per day according to the bill. They say the average person uses 80-100 gallon a day which is why I thought my argument to pay 1/3 is fair.

    I’m looking into the process of installing a separate water line so we’ll see where things go from there. Thanks for your input.
  • 12-13-2019, 08:23 AM
    budwad
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    I guess you didn't understand what I posted in post #10. It may not make any difference that you have a condo situation.

    If you are connected to a public water system, then there would be an ordinance for the city you live in. Did you look it up or not?

    The engineer you spoke to is not an attorney for the city. He doesn't get to decide what the law says. If your city has an ordinance that says every dwelling on the public water system must have their own meter then you can compel your neighbor to pay for it. I'm not talking about a split. I'm saying that your neighbor will have to install a line from the public main to his house.

    Do you understand that now?

    Post your city and I'll find the ordinance for you.
  • 12-13-2019, 10:21 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Just what is a split water meter? Put a private sub-meter on private land downstream of your house. Then one could figure out how much volume each house is using
  • 12-13-2019, 10:28 AM
    budwad
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Most public water systems don't allow you to split a water line. That means that each dwelling must have it's own corporation into the water main. A corporation is a direct connection to the main that feeds a water meter. So you can't take a corporation from one dwelling and split it to service another dwelling.

    In the case of multiple dwellings that are served by one corporation, each unit must have their own meter.

    OP says that he and his neighbor are in a condo association. But they are two separate properties. Thus there is nothing that connects the op's property to the neighbor's property. They are still separate dwellings.
  • 12-13-2019, 10:38 AM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    The present law may not be applicable due to grandfathering. There's undoubtedly multiple locations that a private sub meter could be installed and a quantitative answer that would end this issue could be had.
  • 12-13-2019, 11:02 AM
    budwad
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    I don't think you are correct. Any sub-meter as you call it has no enforcement through a utility. It would be between landowners and landlords. But if there is an ordinance of the jurisdiction that says every doweling connected to a public water system must have their own meter, then that is the law.

    The reasoning is that the utility can't shut off water to someone that is not paying for water.

    In the present case, if OP doesn't pay the water bill the neighbor's water could be turned off. If the landlord of the neighboring property doesn't pay the water bill, then OP's water may be turned off .

    What we don't yet know is in who's name is the utility bill titled. Is it OP or is it the neighbor, or is it something else.
  • 12-13-2019, 09:28 PM
    MaltbyMark
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    I don't think you are correct. Any sub-meter as you call it has no enforcement through a utility. It would be between landowners and landlords. But if there is an ordinance of the jurisdiction that says every doweling connected to a public water system must have their own meter, then that is the law.

    I realize that a private sub-meter is between the parties and the utility has nothing to do with it.

    My point, is that the law is unlikely to be retro-active, and we don't know when it was inacted and when the condo (such as it is) was built. The several of the condos that I have built or been an officer of (albeit in a different state) only had one master meter.
  • 12-14-2019, 07:35 AM
    budwad
    Re: Shared Water Line Between Houses - and Owner of Other Property is Renting to Tena
    There are no doubt countless of developments with associations that have master water meters billed to the associations. And where the association apportions the individual unit water use based on the number of bedrooms in the unit through monthly maintenance fees. The same would be true for landlords and apartment buildings where water usage is based on the number of persons on the lease or bedrooms in the apartment.

    But what I don't understand in OP's post is who is the water account billed to. He/she says that there is a condo situation where there are only two properties but no association. So who pays the bills of this none-association? What or who is in control of determining who pays what on the water bill?
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