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Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress

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  • 11-26-2019, 07:36 PM
    ajmcello78
    Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    My question involves real estate located in the State of: WA

    My issue is complicated but I'll do the best to simplify it. I purchased my mothers home but she ended up having a massive stroke and brain aneurysm. She recovered some, but is fully disabled (can't walk) but she gets around with a wheel chair and uses a computer, writes emails, etc. Anyway, the transaction was done before her medical problems, and the deed was transferred after using a Power of Attorney. My mother signed off on the PoA, fully coherent and under no duress with a notary public present so that I would assume her assets but let her live and stay in her own house with full time care (I was the one taking care of her). This was all fine and well, I registered the PoA and Quitclaim with the state Recorder and assumed all was legal.

    Now, I have a mentally ill brother who has always lived his our mother and he went absolutely insane over this, tried to kill me, my sister, my aunt and my mother! Most charges were dropped but my aunt wouldn't back down. Eventually he moves back into the house with just my mother, myself, and my brother. My brother ends up calling the police about a dozen times over petty little things demanding I be arrested. The police mostly ignored him, but were giving him advice on how to have me arrested if "whatever" happens again. So, the whatever incident happens, the police come out, I'm handcuffed and arrested for assault because while I was vacuuming, the phone rang, and my mother couldn't hear the phone, and so my brother leaped at me and I pushed him out of my way because I had absolutely no idea what he was doing. Then he immediately calls 911 and said I attacked him, and of course, my mother backed up his story, and off I go to jail for assault charges, not only from my brother, but my own mother, who was only a witness, but she did not understand the incident.

    I end up in jail for a very very very long time. During this time, the PoA is revoked, all my finances are drained, my sister stole about 100K out of my brothers Social Security Savings (which my sister and mother were joint account holders). My mother didn't want to deal with it. And, my sister drained the $350,000 I gave to my mother for the house. So all this money is now gone and I find this out in jail. I have zero support, my state appointed attorney told me she didn't believe anything I said and called me a liar and said I couldn't fire her because she was the only attorney for this area who could represent me. So I'm stuck. Months go by. I keep finding more and more things out. Like how my sister and brother had been writing the judge and prosecuting attorney, using every tactic to demand that I'm put in prison for life. In the end and after 6 months of jail (the judge yelled and screamed at me for all the unkind things my brother said I had done to him and my mother that were not true) and imposed some pretty stiff penalties and requirements.

    In the end, I get handed down a permanent restraining order, am never allowed to contact my brother or mother again, go within 1000 feet of them, and I can't go back to my own house because that's where the both of them live. I was literally screwed.

    Then, comes the reversal of the Quitclaim. My sister hired an attorney who got to have his way in court because I was no longer anywhere near the state of Washington. I left that life behind. The attorney won a default judgement because I never knew about it, couldn't be reached, couldn't be found they claim (though my sister and family have my email, phone number, facebook, linkedin, etc, etc). The attorney representing my mother claimed I forced my mother under duress to sign over the PoA and house (yet a notary was present) and also argued squatters rights to get the house back. So, it is over turned, the Quitclaim deed is reversed and I lose the house.

    Do I have any legal recourse? Is there a time frame? Should I contact the notary who was present to see if I can get a letter from her because clearly she would not have had this done if she felt there was any wrongdoing, duress, etc, etc. Or am I just screwed and should I just give up on it all? It is a complicated mess that was all over money and my greedy sister and crazy clinically schizophrenic brother.
  • 11-27-2019, 05:47 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    It sounds like the original purchase/deed and the POA were done without the assistance of an attorney. You certainly need one now if you want to have a hope. Are you saying you as the attorney in fact deeded the property to yourself? Yeah, that's likely to be fairly suspect.

    A notary is not going to refute duress. All they do is attest to the identity of the signatures.
  • 11-27-2019, 06:52 AM
    MiddlePart
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    In Washington state, most appeals have to be filed within 30 days of entry of the decision of the trial court. So if you have an argument that the default judgment should not have issued, or if you otherwise think the trial court got the matter wrong, you can appeal but you'd have to move quickly to start that process.
  • 11-27-2019, 09:20 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Reality:

    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    Do I have any legal recourse?

    Possibly. But do you have the tens of thousands of dollars that protracted litigation would cost?


    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    am I just screwed

    Yes


    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    should I just give up on it all?

    Yes.

    Avoid those toxic lunatics and get on with your life as best as you can.
  • 11-27-2019, 11:21 AM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Yes, that is a correct. An attorney was not present, but the document did allow me to make such a legal transfer. In other words, it was legal, my mother knew about it and so did my family, and they did nothing about it for 2 years. Then bam, when I'm long gone and unreachable, it goes to court with a default judgement because I'm a no-show and was never notified.

    More than 30 days have passed, and I did not find out about it until much later. While under my ownership, I made several upgrades/repairs to the house, the utilities were all in my name, and my mom didn't have to do anything but rest and stay comfortable. When I was out of the picture, my sister made any utility payments under my name with my account numbers and drained my bank account while I was incarcerated for alleged assault. When I get out, I find this all out, she even took my computer and phone home to her house and logged into my E-mail account (gmail) and facebook, and deleted a bunch of stuff and blocked certain people. Thanks to Google, it identified her IP address and devices, and location, so I know it was her. But, it just sucks. There must be some kind of option, I would hope, and I'm certainly willing to spend anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 to resolve this issue, as I guess once I start the process it'll likely go to trial? I don't know the law that well.
  • 11-27-2019, 11:35 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Were you convicted of the crime?

    When did you find out all of the civil actions for the property had happened?
  • 11-27-2019, 12:46 PM
    Mark47n
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    And now you're in HI trying to go after the state for other issues revolving around disability and malpractice? You're quite busy and you get around.

    None of this makes a whole lot of sense.
  • 11-27-2019, 02:20 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    Yes, that is a correct. An attorney was not present, but the document did allow me to make such a legal transfer. In other words, it was legal, my mother knew about it and so did my family, and they did nothing about it for 2 years. Then bam, when I'm long gone and unreachable, it goes to court with a default judgement because I'm a no-show and was never notified.

    No, it doesn't allow you to either self-deal or act against against the will or best interests of the person who granted it. Washington follows the Uniform Power of Attorney act as embodied in RCW 11.125. If this was deemed an abuse of the POA, they indeed didn't need to involve you in undoing it.

    You made what appears to be a bad POA, acted improperly under the POA, and failed to have a valid contract for the other things you did. Now you're paying the price. You should have had an attorney then, you'll need one now if you want to press the issue.
  • 11-28-2019, 12:53 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    [re]
    Were you convicted of the crime?

    When did you find out all of the civil actions for the property had happened?
    [/re]

    No, it was not a crime, regarding the deed/transfer/quitclaim. I wasn't charged nor were charges filed regarding that. It all happened after the fact, when my schizoid brother jumped at me and I pushed him away and he considered that assault and had me arrested. Then the s hit the fan, so to speak, and my sister and brother jumped all over me while I was incarcerated. They both sent so many letters to the prosecuting attorney that he became irritated.

    I have just found out, and now I'm wondering how I should pursue it. Obviously a lawyer, but I did not want to waste my time and money going through this all if I don't have a much chance of over turning the reversal.

    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    No, it doesn't allow you to either self-deal or act against against the will or best interests of the person who granted it. Washington follows the Uniform Power of Attorney act as embodied in RCW 11.125. If this was deemed an abuse of the POA, they indeed didn't need to involve you in undoing it.

    You made what appears to be a bad POA, acted improperly under the POA, and failed to have a valid contract for the other things you did. Now you're paying the price. You should have had an attorney then, you'll need one now if you want to press the issue.

    It wasn't a self deal, my mother was present and witnessed the whole transaction. If she did not want this to occur, then it would not have. I made sure it was all done legally, certified, notarized, and filed with the county recorder. My mother was in poor physical shape and it was too stressful to drive and move her around, so I brought a notary to the house. It only became an issue once my brother and sister flipped out 2 years after the transfer.

    Quote:

    Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    And now you're in HI trying to go after the state for other issues revolving around disability and malpractice? You're quite busy and you get around.

    None of this makes a whole lot of sense.

    Not to you. Please don't make assumptions and jump to conclusions. This is also off-topic and a unrelated matter. You should know better.
  • 11-28-2019, 09:18 PM
    doucar
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    It wasn't a self deal, my mother was present and witnessed the whole transaction.
    Anytime a holder of a power of attorney deeds property to him/herself, it is a self deal. If your mother was present, why did she not sign the deed herself?
  • 11-29-2019, 10:12 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Not to you. Please don't make assumptions and jump to conclusions. This is also off-topic and a unrelated matter. You should know better.
    As noted in the other post, my cross-post is intentional to demonstrate a degree of dissonance between your posts that contradict the plausibility of your OP. So, the cross-post is absolutely relevant.
  • 11-29-2019, 11:51 AM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    It is irrelevant and you used information as misinformation and then personally attacked me when you yourself don't know the full details. I only made a summary, there was no need to establish more details as it will add to confusion.
  • 11-29-2019, 03:44 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    It is irrelevant and you used information as misinformation and then personally attacked me when you yourself don't know the full details. I only made a summary, there was no need to establish more details as it will add to confusion.

    So, why didn’t your mother sign the deed transferring the property to you? As flyingron stated, self dealing is a huge red flag and makes the transaction suspect. Using a poa to transfer assets from the principal to the agent is self dealing regardless Of the circumstances. Any action taken by the agent for their own interest is self dealing.



    you made a statement in your first post that is confusing:


    Quote:

    purchased my mothers home but she ended up having a massive stroke and brain aneurysm. She recovered some, but is fully disabled (can't walk) but she gets around with a wheel chair and uses a computer, writes emails, etc. Anyway, the transaction was done before her medical problems, and the deed was transferred after using a Power of Attorney.



    what do you mean the transaction was done before her medical problems but the deed was transferred after


    The execution and delivery of a deed is what transfers title to property. The delivery of the deed is the transaction used to transfer title. If the deed was not delivered to you until after her medical issues, then the transaction was not completed until after her medical issues. . Since you state you used the power of the poa to transfer the property I’m guessing the execution and delivery of the deed was done after her medical issues. That makes the transaction highly suspect and could be the basis for a rescission of the deed.



    you also made another very odd statement in your first post:

    [QUOTEMy mother signed off on the PoA, fully coherent and under no duress with a notary public present so that I would assume her assets but let her live and stay in her own house with full time care (I was the one taking care of her). [/QUOTE]

    a poa does not allow the agent to assume assets of the principal. It allows them to take whatever actions described in the poa on behalf od the principal. Your statement is very odd and suggestive of not understanding the powers afforded an agent of a poa. You also don’t need a poa to take care of your mother. It can make some issues simpler or easier but especially since you claim she is mentally competent, it doesn’t sound like it was necessary at all.

    if you hope to reverse the courts ruling you really need the aid of an attorney. Obviously your first fight would be to seek to,have the courts,order set aside. Then if the plaintiff chooses to continue the fight, you would have to defend the claim of an improper use of,the poa.
  • 11-29-2019, 04:34 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    I do plan to do just that. It was all done legally, with my mother present. What happened 2 years later was not her doing, but siblings taking action. I will retain a lawyer, but Mark the senior member needs to not jump to conclusions and use personal attacks and tactics. A lot of people have been to jail. Does that make me a criminal? I don't know. I'm not a felon. I'm here seeking answers to legal issues in my life that I'd like resolved. You can walk down the street and accuse someone of a crime, and press charges against them with an officer present. Then they go to jail. That is the country we live in.

    The PoA was written in such a way that allowed for assets and cash to be signed off on with my signature. I did this so that I can take care of my mother, not rob her. I consulted with a lawyer before it was drawn up, and then had it signed and filed legally.
  • 11-29-2019, 06:40 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Um, yes, if you have been to jail it does make you a criminal. Jail is where criminals are sent as punishment.

    regardless of the validity of the poa, self dealing is highly suspicious. If your mother was capable of signing a deed, there is no reason you should have used the powers of the poa to sign the deed, especially with you as the grantee. Since she was and apparently is lucid, if she claims the transfer was against her intent, a court would be hard pressed to not rescind it. If you can get the latest courts order set aside you may get a chance to defend your position. I wouldn’t be overly optimistic you will prevail if your mother refutes your claim.

    and if your mother is mentally competent, what happened 2 years later is her doing. No party would have the right to seek the rescission and she would have had to be the plaintiff.
  • 11-29-2019, 06:47 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    JK, you are ignorant. Jail does not make you a criminal. A felonious record does.

    pwned.

    /jr member
  • 11-29-2019, 07:06 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    JK, you are ignorant. Jail does not make you a criminal. A felonious record does.

    pwned.

    /jr member

    Sorry dude but a person who commits a misdemeanor is also a criminal.

    the definition of a criminal is simply; a person who has committed a crime


    they don’t even have to be prosecuted. They are a criminal simply by the fact the broke the law.

    try using a dictionary once in awhile

    and pwned...really? Not only are you wrong, is leetspeak even in vogue any longer? I haven’t read the term in such a long time.
  • 11-29-2019, 07:08 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Really bro? You needn't a Senior badge. Or maybe you do. Here, have mine, if you can catch me. Good god.

    Oh yeah, a criminal is someone who has been prosecuted. Good grief.
  • 11-29-2019, 07:17 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    Really bro? You needn't a Senior badge. Or maybe you do. Here, have mine, if you can catch me. Good god.

    Oh yeah, a criminal is someone who has been prosecuted. Good kgrief.


    criminal
    noun


    Definition of criminal


    1: one who has committed a crime

    Being prosecuted doesn’t alter the fact of whether one has committed a crime. It merely establishes the fact in a court of law.

    have a great night.



  • 11-29-2019, 07:21 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    You are as ignorant as they come.

    Good luck in your next life, if you believe in that, it may improve your defective judgement.

    Is your definition of breath the same? One who breathes? What if they are forced to breathe? And what are they breathing? Does breathing make you a criminal?

    Seriously.

    Good luck. You'll be back again and again, reincarnation has failed so far.
  • 11-29-2019, 07:39 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    You are as ignorant as they come.

    Good luck in your next life, if you believe in that, it may improve your defective judgement.

    Is your definition of breath the same? One who breathes? What if they are forced to breathe? And what are they breathing? Does breathing make you a criminal?

    Seriously.

    Good luck. You'll be back again and again, reincarnation has failed so far.

    why would my definition of breath be the same as the definition of criminal? Other than the fact a criminal breathes, or has at one time, I don’t see the association.

    If one breathes, they have taken in a breath. No breathing, no breath involved.

    You’re sounding might confused. If we get beyond first grade words I fear you’ll be totally lost.
  • 11-29-2019, 08:17 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    This is why you are ignorant.

    You failed to read what I said or understand the implications.

    What if one who is breathing breathed marijuana? Crack Cocaine? Meth ampethamines? Did they breath it second hand? Did they do it themselves?

    Seriously man. This world doesn't run by websters definition. It runs by reality, facts, and how you prove those.
  • 11-29-2019, 08:39 PM
    free9man
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    Seriously man. This world doesn't run by websters definition.

    For the most part, yes it does. Especially in the field of law. Besides criminals, you are unlikely to find anyone who would say the only people who are criminals are felons/people who have been prosecuted. By the way, which is it? One time you say only felons and the next you say simply by being prosecuted. The vast majority of people go by the standard definition of the word.

    This is all beginning to sound kinda familiar. Have you graced us with your presence and been banned before?

    As to the original topic of this thread, you are in far too deep of a mess to get out by yourself. Only an attorney who has done a full review of all the facts and records can help you at this point. If the attorney representing you mom alleged something, it would be assumed you testified to that fact or otherwise affirmed it. The state decided you self dealed and violated your authority under the POA. That's not a do it yourself issue to try and counter.
  • 11-29-2019, 08:44 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Your response leaves a loophole. A dictionary is not definitive. Good luck man.
  • 11-29-2019, 08:52 PM
    free9man
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    Good luck man.

    To you as well, Don Quixote.
  • 11-29-2019, 08:53 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Thanks for getting back on topic. Perhaps I should have went to law-school, but that is besides the point. An attorney on the otherside cannot testify, or affirm for the defendant being prosecuted. Especially if they are not present. Default judgments are like cheesecake, please don't BS me. I did mention I'd get a lawyer to sort this mess out. I believe it was lawful and legitimate and only corrupted by outside members other than my mother and myself.
  • 11-30-2019, 08:19 AM
    budwad
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Did anyone forget that in this country you are presumed innocent until proven guilty? Being accused of a crime does not make you a criminal until you are convicted or admit to the crime. Using the definition of crime to label someone a criminal is off base if that person was not convicted or plead guilty. Being held in jail pending a trial does not make someone a criminal.

    Which brings me to this question: Why was OP incarcerated for 6 months? He states that he was not convicted on charges related to the deed transfer but doesn't say why he spent 6 months in jail. Perhaps it was on an assault charge on his brother. If that is the case, then yes he is a criminal by definition.

    OP says that the rescission of the deed transfer judgment was by default while he was in jail. A default judgment can be overturned if the defendant was never served or did not have the opportunity to respond.

    The self-dealing issue is another jump on the OP situation. First, if OP paid $350,000 to his mother and the home was worth $350,000, where is the advantage to OP that would be considered self-dealing to the disadvantage of the grantor?

    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    An attorney on the otherside cannot testify, or affirm for the defendant being prosecuted. Especially if they are not present. Default judgments are like cheesecake, please don't BS me. I did mention I'd get a lawyer to sort this mess out. I believe it was lawful and legitimate and only corrupted by outside members other than my mother and myself.

    Attorneys don't testify or affirm for the defendant being prosecuted. They are only advocates for the people they represent. They are not fact witnesses.
  • 11-30-2019, 10:09 AM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Did anyone forget that in this country you are presumed innocent until proven guilty? Being accused of a crime does not make you a criminal until you are convicted or admit to the crime. Using the definition of crime to label someone a criminal is off base if that person was not convicted or plead guilty. Being held in jail pending a trial does not make someone a criminal.

    Which brings me to this question: Why was OP incarcerated for 6 months? He states that he was not convicted on charges related to the deed transfer but doesn't say why he spent 6 months in jail. Perhaps it was on an assault charge on his brother. If that is the case, then yes he is a criminal by definition.

    OP says that the rescission of the deed transfer judgment was by default while he was in jail. A default judgment can be overturned if the defendant was never served or did not have the opportunity to respond.

    The self-dealing issue is another jump on the OP situation. First, if OP paid $350,000 to his mother and the home was worth $350,000, where is the advantage to OP that would be considered self-dealing to the disadvantage of the grantor?



    Attorneys don't testify or affirm for the defendant being prosecuted. They are only advocates for the people they represent. They are not fact witnesses.

    Thanks Budwad. While I spent 6 months in jail, I was not convicted. Earlier I said it was alleged assault (pushing someone because they jumped at you is a self defense bodily action or *reaction*). Also, my brother wrote a statement to describe exactly what I had claimed happened. It's difficult to explain the entire situation because it was not based on just one incident, but rather several that added up to all this and being incarcerated. I fought it, but I could not get released due to an inability to make any contact with anyone, an inability to get/send receive letters or addresses, an inability to secure bail/bond out, amongst other things. So, I fought, stayed in jail, and anything relating to assault was dismissed because the other parties involved did not show. My public defendant was of no help, appeared to be afraid of me, and flat out called me a liar. This person was not going to advocate anything for me and recommended I plead guilty as to not piss off the judge with a long drawn out trial that would be months away. I did not listen to her and fought the charge anyway.

    However, this is separate from the deed transfer and an unrelated matter. Perhaps I should have just left that whole part out. But people like stories. :rolleyes:

    I took a loss, had to deal with theft, loss of all my possessions, cash, everything I had was gone during that unfortunate 6month time frame period.
  • 11-30-2019, 10:33 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Did anyone forget that in this country you are presumed innocent until proven guilty? Being accused of a crime does not make you a criminal until you are convicted or admit to the crime. Using the definition of crime to label someone a criminal is off base if that person was not convicted or plead guilty. Being held in jail pending a trial does not make someone a criminal.

    Which brings me to this question: Why was OP incarcerated for 6 months? He states that he was not convicted on charges related to the deed transfer but doesn't say why he spent 6 months in jail. Perhaps it was on an assault charge on his brother. If that is the case, then yes he is a criminal by definition.

    OP says that the rescission of the deed transfer judgment was by default while he was in jail. A default judgment can be overturned if the defendant was never served or did not have the opportunity to respond.

    The self-dealing issue is another jump on the OP situation. First, if OP paid $350,000 to his mother and the home was worth $350,000, where is the advantage to OP that would be considered self-dealing to the disadvantage of the grantor?



    Attorneys don't testify or affirm for the defendant being prosecuted. They are only advocates for the people they represent. They are not fact witnesses.

    I said if you commit a crime you are a criminal. It matters not whether you are prosecuted and found guilty. Using your statement, as long as a killer is not convicted, no matter how many people they kill, they are not a criminal.. that is simply not correct. If convicted they become a convicted criminal. Those are two different issues.


    the presumption of innocence is regarding the prosecution of the crime. Whether they are a criminal is a matter of fact regardless what a court may decide. Many many criminals are found not guilty for a variety of reasons. Many criminals are not prosecuted if they aren’t caught or there isn’t enough evidence to successfully prosecute them. That doesn’t make them any less a criminal. It just means the state couldn’t prove they committed the crime.


    the op said nothing about paying his mother anything for the property. I suspect if he purchased his mother’s home he would have said something about it. The terminology used doesn’t suggest there was payment. If he did pay his mother, it could help his case, depending on how much he paid for it compared to market value.

    as to a default judgment can be overturned:

    sometimes. There are reasons some can be overturned but there are also default judgments that cannot be overturned. The specific facts matter. Even if a defendant hasn’t been physically served, that does not necessarily allow for a defauit judgment to be set aside. Courts have rules of service and if those rules were complied with, actual service isnt always necessary. As one example: sometimes service by publication is adequate. Again,,specific facts matter.
  • 11-30-2019, 10:59 PM
    llworking
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I said if you commit a crime you are a criminal. It matters not whether you are prosecuted and found guilty. Using your statement, as long as a killer is not convicted, no matter how many people they kill, they are not a criminal.. that is simply not correct. If convicted they become a convicted criminal. Those are two different issues.


    the presumption of innocence is regarding the prosecution of the crime. Whether they are a criminal is a matter of fact regardless what a court may decide. Many many criminals are found not guilty for a variety of reasons. Many criminals are not prosecuted if they aren’t caught or there isn’t enough evidence to successfully prosecute them. That doesn’t make them any less a criminal. It just means the state couldn’t prove they committed the crime.


    the op said nothing about paying his mother anything for the property. I suspect if he purchased his mother’s home he would have said something about it. The terminology used doesn’t suggest there was payment. If he did pay his mother, it could help his case, depending on how much he paid for it compared to market value.

    as to a default judgment can be overturned:

    sometimes. There are reasons some can be overturned but there are also default judgments that cannot be overturned. The specific facts matter. Even if a defendant hasn’t been physically served, that does not necessarily allow for a defauit judgment to be set aside. Courts have rules of service and if those rules were complied with, actual service isnt always necessary. As one example: sometimes service by publication is adequate. Again,,specific facts matter.

    Original post, third paragraph:

    Quote:

    And, my sister drained the $350,000 I gave to my mother for the house
  • 12-01-2019, 07:50 AM
    budwad
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I said if you commit a crime you are a criminal. It matters not whether you are prosecuted and found guilty. Using your statement, as long as a killer is not convicted, no matter how many people they kill, they are not a criminal.. that is simply not correct. If convicted they become a convicted criminal. Those are two different issues.


    the presumption of innocence is regarding the prosecution of the crime. Whether they are a criminal is a matter of fact regardless what a court may decide. Many many criminals are found not guilty for a variety of reasons. Many criminals are not prosecuted if they aren’t caught or there isn’t enough evidence to successfully prosecute them. That doesn’t make them any less a criminal. It just means the state couldn’t prove they committed the crime.


    the op said nothing about paying his mother anything for the property. I suspect if he purchased his mother’s home he would have said something about it. The terminology used doesn’t suggest there was payment. If he did pay his mother, it could help his case, depending on how much he paid for it compared to market value.

    as to a default judgment can be overturned:

    sometimes. There are reasons some can be overturned but there are also default judgments that cannot be overturned. The specific facts matter. Even if a defendant hasn’t been physically served, that does not necessarily allow for a defauit judgment to be set aside. Courts have rules of service and if those rules were complied with, actual service isnt always necessary. As one example: sometimes service by publication is adequate. Again,,specific facts matter.

    According to your definition of criminal, we are all criminals because at one time or another in one's life they violate a law knowingly or inadvertently. It could be tax evasion, speeding, passing through a red light, bouncing a check, running over a squeal (animal cruelty), placing something in someone's mailbox. Those are all crimes. And while the definition of criminal is someone who commits a crime is the definition, not all people that may have committed a crime (in the technical sense) are criminals. But all convicted criminals have committed a crime.

    So let me ask you, when you fill out a job application and the question is have you ever committed a crime, do you answer yes?

    The US Supreme Court has ruled (I posted the cite in another thread) that you cannot take someone's real property without actually serving the person and knowing that the person was personally served. And being in jail where the defendant has no access to read legal postings in a newspaper is hardly service.
  • 12-01-2019, 08:41 AM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    According to your definition of criminal, we are all criminals because at one time or another in one's life they violate a law knowingly or inadvertently. It could be tax evasion, speeding, passing through a red light, bouncing a check, running over a squeal (animal cruelty), placing something in someone's mailbox. Those are all crimes. And while the definition of criminal is someone who commits a crime is the definition, not all people that may have committed a crime (in the technical sense) are criminals. But all convicted criminals have committed a crime.

    So let me ask you, when you fill out a job application and the question is have you ever committed a crime, do you answer yes?

    The US Supreme Court has ruled (I posted the cite in another thread) that you cannot take someone's real property without actually serving the person and knowing that the person was personally served. And being in jail where the defendant has no access to read legal postings in a newspaper is hardly service.


    According to the dictionary definition I posted, yes, just as we are all sinners, we are all also criminals at some level if we live a typical life.


    and it’s funny that you state all people convicted of a crime are criminals, at least regarding the crime they were convicted of. That is incorrect. Never heard of an innocent man being convicted of a crime he didn’t commit? It has happened a lot throughout history. As I said: determining whether a person is a criminal or not is a matter of fact. Whether a court has convicted one of a crime or not doesn’t change the factual determination of whether one has committed a crime or not.


    to the employment question: I don’t believe I have ever been asked that question. The last questionnaire I filled out asked if I have ever been convicted of a crime. I believe that is the typical wording of that line of questioning.

    to taking a persons property without being served: that doesn’t apply here. If the deed was rescinded, it was decided the property was never the op’s. The court ruled it was always the mothers and the deed was invalid from inception ergo your citation would not apply.

    regarding the issue of being in jail and the issue of service by publication: you are intertwining two different topics. My explanation of service by publication was merely an example of one way the rules of service could be properly fulfilled and a party not be physically served. There are often other exceptions to actual physical service available. What is of concern is whether the rules of service were fulfilled. We don’t have the info available to make such a determination.
  • 12-01-2019, 09:07 AM
    budwad
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    You like to argue minutia. Go ahead and knock yourself out. :rolleyes:
  • 12-01-2019, 09:39 AM
    llworking
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    According to the dictionary definition I posted, yes, just as we are all sinners, we are all also criminals at some level if we live a typical life.


    and it’s funny that you state all people convicted of a crime are criminals, at least regarding the crime they were convicted of. That is incorrect. Never heard of an innocent man being convicted of a crime he didn’t commit? It has happened a lot throughout history. As I said: determining whether a person is a criminal or not is a matter of fact. Whether a court has convicted one of a crime or not doesn’t change the factual determination of whether one has committed a crime or not.


    to the employment question: I don’t believe I have ever been asked that question. The last questionnaire I filled out asked if I have ever been convicted of a crime. I believe that is the typical wording of that line of questioning.

    to taking a persons property without being served: that doesn’t apply here. If the deed was rescinded, it was decided the property was never the op’s. The court ruled it was always the mothers and the deed was invalid from inception ergo your citation would not apply.

    regarding the issue of being in jail and the issue of service by publication: you are intertwining two different topics. My explanation of service by publication was merely an example of one way the rules of service could be properly fulfilled and a party not be physically served. There are often other exceptions to actual physical service available. What is of concern is whether the rules of service were fulfilled. We don’t have the info available to make such a determination.

    Except, once again, he paid 350k for the home, and a court would not steal 350k from him. Mom cannot refund the 350k because his sister already drained that money from his mom.
  • 12-01-2019, 09:39 AM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    You like to argue minutia. Go ahead and knock yourself out. :rolleyes:

    I think you misspelled facts.

    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Except, once again, he paid 350k for the home, and a court would not steal 350k from him. Mom cannot refund the 350k because his sister already drained that money from his mom.


    If the market value was $350,000, then he should prevail in his endeavor if he can overcome the current judgment. If it was an extreme under value amount, then as many scammers have discovered, sometimes you lose your money. Of course he could always sue his mother for the money.


    the Story is implausible. If he owned a $350,000 home free and clear, it is unlikely he would have qualified for a public defender. (Remember, at the time the deed had not been rescinded). If he owned a $350,000 home free and clear and had the where with all to have that sum of money available to pay his mother, he would have likely had a reasonable income. People with accumulations of that sort of cash or even the ability to acquire such amount of cash generally don’t qualify for a public defender. They also tend to have the means to bail themselves out of jail yet the op sat in jail for, in his words, a very very very long time. (three very’s suggests a very long time but op went on to state it was only 6 months) Then, somehow when he was in jail for this very long time, ops finances were drained. So how does the op know sister stole the $350,000 from mom and the $100,000 from brother? Given the relationships I suspect he would not be privy to any information that would allow him to have proof of anything.



    oh, since the brother is on social security, he wouldn’t be allowed to have $100,000. Anything beyond a small amount becomes problematic. Having $100,000 would make him ineligible for ssi (yes, I’m assuming the brother is not beyond full retirement age so cash on hand does become a concern).

    but the kicker: op said this:


    Quote:

    In the end and after 6 months of jail (the judge yelled and screamed at me for all the unkind things my brother said I had done to him and my mother that were not true) and imposed some pretty stiff penalties and requirements.

    people that are not convicted are not given stiff penalties and requirements upon release.


    apparently all of you also missed this:


    Quote:

    Then, comes the reversal of the Quitclaim. My sister hired an attorney who got to have his way in court because I was no longer anywhere near the state of Washington. I left that life behind. The attorney won a default judgement because I never knew about it, couldn't be reached, couldn't be found they claim (though my sister and family have my email, phone number, facebook, linkedin, etc, etc). The attorney representing my mother claimed I forced my mother under duress to sign over the PoA and house (yet a notary was present) and also argued squatters rights to get the house back. So, it is over turned, the Quitclaim deed is reversed and I lose the house.


    the court activities regarding the rescission of the deed did not take place while the op was in jail so why anybody argued the op was in jail somehow affords the op a defense to lack of service is beyond me. In fact, why the op related any of the information regarding his criminal charges has me baffled. The criminal issue has absolutely nothing, at least as stated, with the issue regarding the deed.



  • 12-01-2019, 12:32 PM
    llworking
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    If the brother was on SSDI or regular retirement benefits the brother could have all of the assets he wanted. The only time that SS benefits are mean tested is if its SSI. You are assuming it was SSI, when it's more likely that it was not. In fact, that 100k might even have been lump sum back SSDI if it took them 4 or 5 years to get SSDI approved.
  • 12-01-2019, 12:55 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    If the brother was on SSDI or regular retirement benefits the brother could have all of the assets he wanted. The only time that SS benefits are mean tested is if its SSI. You are assuming it was SSI, when it's more likely that it was not. In fact, that 100k might even have been lump sum back SSDI if it took them 4 or 5 years to get SSDI approved.

    how you can conclude it is more than likely not ssi is beyond me. You have absolutely no facts, or even suggestions that would allow you to properly draw such a conclusion.

    Given the brother has always lived with the mother, given it’s a mental illness, well let’s just say that most people in such situations don’t earn enough to bank $100,000 or earn a benefit amount on ssdi to bank that much.

    Of course none of that affects the real issue and the implausible scenario presented. Again, the issue with the brother and jail have nothing to do with the issue with the deed.
  • 12-05-2019, 04:31 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    how you can conclude it is more than likely not ssi is beyond me. You have absolutely no facts, or even suggestions that would allow you to properly draw such a conclusion.

    Given the brother has always lived with the mother, given it’s a mental illness, well let’s just say that most people in such situations don’t earn enough to bank $100,000 or earn a benefit amount on ssdi to bank that much.

    Of course none of that affects the real issue and the implausible scenario presented. Again, the issue with the brother and jail have nothing to do with the issue with the deed.

    I'm surprised this is still on going.

    My brother's SSI/SSDI question: It was not a lump sum but rather accumulation over probably 20 years. Two people who had access to it, my mother, my sister. What did my sister do? Rob him blind and being the schizoid he is, he almost killed several people when he found out he was broke. What did my sister do to me? Overturn the deed of my house into her name. What did my sister do to my mother? Take all her assets, including the value of the property, assessed near 350,000$ (even though it was in my name at the end), which also was the amount of assets included on the PoA that I was allowed to transfer. What did my sister do to my brother? Well, she was joint on the bank account with my mother where my brothers SSI/DI benefits were deposited. I don't know which one he gets, he got on it before 18 and has never worked. He literally is medically and clinically crazy and cannot work, maintain budgets or cash or assets.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I think you misspelled facts.




    If the market value was $350,000, then he should prevail in his endeavor if he can overcome the current judgment. If it was an extreme under value amount, then as many scammers have discovered, sometimes you lose your money. Of course he could always sue his mother for the money.


    the Story is implausible. If he owned a $350,000 home free and clear, it is unlikely he would have qualified for a public defender. (Remember, at the time the deed had not been rescinded). If he owned a $350,000 home free and clear and had the where with all to have that sum of money available to pay his mother, he would have likely had a reasonable income. People with accumulations of that sort of cash or even the ability to acquire such amount of cash generally don’t qualify for a public defender. They also tend to have the means to bail themselves out of jail yet the op sat in jail for, in his words, a very very very long time. (three very’s suggests a very long time but op went on to state it was only 6 months) Then, somehow when he was in jail for this very long time, ops finances were drained. So how does the op know sister stole the $350,000 from mom and the $100,000 from brother? Given the relationships I suspect he would not be privy to any information that would allow him to have proof of anything.



    oh, since the brother is on social security, he wouldn’t be allowed to have $100,000. Anything beyond a small amount becomes problematic. Having $100,000 would make him ineligible for ssi (yes, I’m assuming the brother is not beyond full retirement age so cash on hand does become a concern).

    but the kicker: op said this:




    people that are not convicted are not given stiff penalties and requirements upon release.


    apparently all of you also missed this:





    the court activities regarding the rescission of the deed did not take place while the op was in jail so why anybody argued the op was in jail somehow affords the op a defense to lack of service is beyond me. In fact, why the op related any of the information regarding his criminal charges has me baffled. The criminal issue has absolutely nothing, at least as stated, with the issue regarding the deed.




    While many facts are absent, not all facts are needed to ask a question to get an answer. I tried, and apparently I failed horribly.

    Nobody knows the full facts but me. Nobody knows my financial ability, capability, assets, or any of that. Did you know you can have $5,000,000 in assets but because you have no income, maybe you are now suddenly disabled, maybe you got injured on the job or offsite...What it comes down to is your current situation. If your income is $0, less than $0 (yes, that can happen), or under the minimum requirements, you may qualify for state and federal benefits.

    Does anyone here know my past? My work experience? Assets, cash on hand, liquid? No. However, I was able to make a transaction of $350,000 (albeit, it happened while I had an income). Things change, yes, I went to jail, and no, that does not make me a criminal. A total stranger can send you to jail. Especially if you are male, and a woman accuses you of specific situations and functions (shall I say it? a crime!). So, lets just not get started on that.

    Also, not accounting for COLA, SSDI benefits maxes out at around $2800, plus or minus $100. If you have enough eligible work credits and made a very decent living, you would qualify for this.

    JK is very meticulous, and good work. You are very detailed. I appreciate that. I was not convicted of the alleged crime that happened. It got tossed out. However, it also made the prosecuting attorney angry. While I don't know the details or how it works, more charges were added of lesser degree months later, after the initial charges, and after I got my initial charges dismissed. But I remained in jail because they were added to the initial charges. While the more serious allegations of assault were dismissed, I was hit some very strange charges and I just said whatever, I'm done and wanted to get on with my life. You want to know what they were? Mischievous mischief and burning up old rotten wood, boxes, etc on a large property. It was considered reckless, endangering, and I tried to argue the property was mine, on my land, I had the right to do so, but when all this went down with the alleged assault, the fire department also came and extinguished a fire probably 100 yards from the house in a designated fire area used many dozens of times to burn non-hazardous expendables. Like all my neighbors do.
  • 12-05-2019, 05:06 PM
    jk
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Quote:

    Quoting ajmcello78
    View Post
    I'm surprised this is still on going.

    My brother's SSI/SSDI question: It was not a lump sump but rather accumulation over probably 20 years. Two people who had access to it, my mother, my sister. What did my sister do? Rob him blind and being the schizoid he is, he almost killed several people when he found out he was broke. What did my sister do to me? Overturn the deed of my house into her name. What did my sister do to my mother? Take all her assets, including the value of the property, assessed near 350,000$ (even though it was in my name at the end), which also was the amount of assets included on the PoA that I was allowed to transfer. What did my sister do to my brother? Well, she was joint on the bank account with my mother where my brothers SSI/DI benefits were deposited. I don't know which one he gets, he got on it before 18 and has never worked. He literally is medically and clinically crazy and cannot work, maintain budgets or cash or assets.



    While many facts are absent, not all facts are needed to ask a question to get an answer. I tried, and apparently I failed horribly.

    Nobody knows the full facts but me. Nobody knows my financial ability, capability, assets, or any of that. Did you know you can have $5,000,000 in assets but because you have no income, maybe you are now suddenly disabled, maybe you got injured on the job or offsite...What it comes down to is your current situation. If your income is $0, less than $0 (yes, that can happen), or under the minimum requirements, you may qualify for state and federal benefits.

    Does anyone here know my past? My work experience? Assets, cash on hand, liquid? No. However, I was able to make a transaction of $350,000 (albeit, it happened while I had an income). Things change, yes, I went to jail, and no, that does not make me a criminal. A total stranger can send you to jail. Especially if you are male, and a woman accuses you of specific situations and functions. So, lets just not get started on that.

    If your brother never worked he wouldn’t be eligible for ssdi. He either receives ssi (currently $771/month max benefits to a single individual) or survivors benefits from a benefactors account (parent or certain limited other parties that he depended on for support) that died. If it was ssi, He wouldn’t be allowed to have that much money available to him. If it was survivors benefits, it’s not possible for me to even guess whether it was possible to accrue $100,000

    it isn’t worth continuing the conversation as you tend to drift off into rambling and irrelevant land without providing any actual facts or information.

    so, if you want to attempt to fight the revocation of the deed, gather up a bunch of money and find a lawyer that believes you have a fighting chance of winning. Otherwise accept the situation as it is. This isn’t a do it yourself project.

    also, your sister could not have overturned the deed you received and put it in her name. Your mother would had to seek to have the deed rescinded (your sister is not a party to the action and as such had no dog in that fight) and if it was, it would revert to your mothers name. If your mother chose to transfer the title to your sister after that, that was up to your mother. Your claim she had it transferred to her name from your name shows your lack of understanding of the issues involved.
  • 12-05-2019, 05:15 PM
    ajmcello78
    Re: Quitclaim Overturned Due to Duress
    Ok, then it is SSI, and it was accumulated over tens of years. So lets say $700/mo + 20 years, that's about 168K. So, he got dished out around 68K to live on while staying with my family. And my sister took the rest, which I saw because I had PoA and requested all the bank statements. She depleted my brother, my mother, and then went after me.

    He did accrue over 100,000$ USD. It was put in a bank account for him to be used as a safety net later in his life. My mother and father paid for his expenses throughout his life until my father passed. Then things went to hell.

    No, I don't drift off, I tried to minimize and stick to factual details, but well, some people here like to argue til the cows have wings and never return to pastures o' plenty.

    Yes, it did revert back to my mothers name, however, my mother is incapacitated. It was my sister who initiated and did all the work, and in the end, she gets the prize (so far). She advocated for my mother and against me. I don't know whether she has a PoA now or what the situation with her and mother is. She is in property management, so she was very organized and methodical in this process. While it did revert back to my mother, it was my sister who then took over possession and ownership of all my mothers assets after I was out of the picture.
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