ExpertLaw.com Forums

Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support

Printable View

  • 10-27-2019, 07:57 PM
    BossMommy88
    Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Missouri.

    I have two children ages 7 and 8. I split up with their father right before the youngest turned 1 and the oldest was 2. Their father developed an alcohol and drug problem. I had to leave

    After the breakup, I did continue to allow him to see his kids for some months after. Though he wouldn't pay me any child support always had some excuse and then a relative of mine told me they saw him with our kids at a well-known heroin addict/dealer's house. We fought some more and I eventually cut all contact off with him and denied him to see the children. Good thing I did because of months later on the front page of the paper I see he is sentenced to 10 years in prison for burglary, theft of a firearm, evading police officers and some other things I don't remember. It wasn't categorized as a drug crime, but the actions were a result of him being so strung out. He later told me in a letter that he had stolen the firearm to kill himself that night.

    Fast forward to today, he was released from prison about a year and a half ago serving about 4 out of the 10 years. He's been doing all the rehab programs, meetings, counseling and all that. I want to trust that this is for real this time, but I can't help but feel worried because this is a repeated cycle with him. He does have a good job though and a reliable vehicle now so I had proposed we start with supervised visitations just to introduce him slowly back into the kid's lives since they don't really know him and when he comes around all he does is make them watch him watch youtube videos on his phone, rough house until one of them gets hurt, or plays video games with them. He's not invested in their education and when I showed him a bad report card from our youngest. He said, right in front of our child, "Oh who cares it's just 1st grade." I was furious and I do NOT want him influencing our children that education is not important. So after that, I did sort of start brushing him off and purposely missing our scheduled visits. The boys never ask for him they are closer to their grandfather who has really stepped up and played the father role in their lives taking camping, fishing, taught them to ride their bikes takes them to work with him sometimes and really has instilled the value of hard work in them.

    Also, yet again I have not received a dime of financial support from their father either. He's always got some excuse even though on social media he's showing off each new pair of shoes, and tech gadgets, and expensive dinners he's eating with this new GF. So I said enough is enough and filed for child support. His attitude TOTALLY changed and every visit he showed up to he spent arguing with me IN FRONT of our kids to the point where I had to text him and say look either start helping out, stop harassing me, or don't show up here again and he has taken that text message as proof of me denying visitation rights to his kids and is now trying to turning around on me filing for joint custody JUST so that he doesn't have to pay full child support. Everything in this petition is incorrect from our home address, to the hospital the kids were born in, to their ages which is COMPLETELY unacceptable because he was JUST at our youngest child's birthday party a few months ago. So that should show he's not thinking about our kids he's thinking about how he can best keep his money in his own pockets.

    Somebody PLEASE tell me I'm not in danger of him actually winning joint custody of our children. I've never done drugs, I rarely drink, I have a great job at an amazing company. There's nothing in my history outside of denying him visitation (for good reason I think) that he can use against me in court. BTW I do have a meeting with an actual lawyer but it is not until 2 weeks and I'm so stressed and anxious for at least SOME sort of advice hoping it will calm my nerves until then.
  • 10-27-2019, 08:46 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Joint custody does not always eliminate the obligation to pay child support.

    You would be wise to consult a lawyer.
  • 10-27-2019, 09:15 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    This petition specifically states neither parent shall pay child support to one another. I'm not sure if these things are crafted up by the lawyers and will be taken seriously in court by a judge or not.

    Like the post says, I do actually have a meeting with a lawyer in 2 weeks. I'm just looking for some general opinions on the situation so I can be prepared.
  • 10-28-2019, 04:20 AM
    llworking
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    This petition specifically states neither parent shall pay child support to one another. I'm not sure if these things are crafted up by the lawyers and will be taken seriously in court by a judge or not.

    Like the post says, I do actually have a meeting with a lawyer in 2 weeks. I'm just looking for some general opinions on the situation so I can be prepared.

    Joint legal custody (joint decision making) is very much the norm and may very well be granted. Joint physical custody is also very normal, however that is not really what he is asking for. A 50/50 timeshare is apparently what he is asking for. He is also assuming that a 50/50 timeshare means no child support. That is not necessarily the case. A 50/50 times is NOT the norm and its very unlikely that he will get that with your set of facts.

    However, what WILL happen is that he will end up with a parenting schedule that will be court ordered and that you will be required to honor.
  • 10-28-2019, 11:07 AM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Thank you! I’m definitely not against a court ordered visiting arrangement but 50/50 time share is outrageous for a parent who has never really been in their life. I just want the child support I deserve for raising two brilliant children on my own.
  • 10-29-2019, 05:25 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Thank you! I’m definitely not against a court ordered visiting arrangement but 50/50 time share is outrageous for a parent who has never really been in their life. I just want the child support I deserve for raising two brilliant children on my own.

    Child support isn't for you. It's for the care and support of the children.

    You don't deserve child support, the children deserve it.

    You, as the mom, will have little control, if any, over how he chooses to be a parent. So, you can either come up with a way to cope with the upcoming situation or you can do what my mom did: spend 15 years in and out of court with dad, unintentionally poison the relationships between children and parents and generally make a huge irreparable mess of things. You choose, because he's there to stay.
  • 10-29-2019, 07:24 AM
    llworking
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    Child support isn't for you. It's for the care and support of the children.

    You don't deserve child support, the children deserve it.

    You, as the mom, will have little control, if any, over how he chooses to be a parent. So, you can either come up with a way to cope with the upcoming situation or you can do what my mom did: spend 15 years in and out of court with dad, unintentionally poison the relationships between children and parents and generally make a huge irreparable mess of things. You choose, because he's there to stay.

    That's a little harsh under the circumstances. Dad has substance abuse issues and spent some years in prison as a result. She is right to proceed cautiously. Could she have worded things a little better? Sure, but she is still right to proceed cautiously.
  • 10-29-2019, 08:46 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    That's a little harsh under the circumstances. Dad has substance abuse issues and spent some years in prison as a result. She is right to proceed cautiously. Could she have worded things a little better? Sure, but she is still right to proceed cautiously.

    I can only respond to what I read. While dad may be a piece of work that doesn't make her a saint. Just because someone goes to prison or has other issues doesn't mean they are a bad parent, it means that they are flawed. I have a few flaws of my own (which my wife feels free to point out) but have children. In other posts that follow these lines, whether it's the mother or the father, one parent is trying to rationalize their exerting control over the way the other parent does things. As long as kids aren't being hurt - and I'm not referring to dad and son roughhousing hurt - then there really isn't much to say. Is he perfect? Probably not, but I would place money on the table and say that mom isn't either.

    Another thing that gets my back up is the word "deserve". It gets used in curious ways. I stand by my statement that the children deserve the support and that a parent receives it and spends it on their behalf. It's not for the parent. Moreover, children deserve to have good parents who don't pile their accumulated traumas on them (which is not to say that's what is happening here), use them as a cat's paw or as a means of fulfilling their own life's wishes or obviating their failures. But we rarely get what we deserve.
  • 10-29-2019, 09:59 AM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Some of the responses to mothers on this forum are outrageous and downright delusional. So I should force my children into a relationship with a meth addict who has a high probability of relapsing again because this isn’t the first time. Not every woman knows what they’re getting into with these deadbeat men it’s not like they meet you and say “Hi I have a hidden drug and mental health problems. Let’s make babies.” Some men are VERY manipulative and VERY good and pretending to be someone they aren’t for YEARS. My children are happy, healthy they have an amazing father figure in their lives. What’s the point of forcing this stranger on them? Gradually introducing him back into their lives through supervised visitation is the clear best option here. As far as “deserving” child support I stand by that 100%. I make over 70k per year and still live poor so that these kids can have the world. It’s time me and my children get to live comfortably as we deserve.

    Can’t really poison a relationship that doesn’t yet exist... And the biggest problem is who knows if he is here to stay he’s been in and out of prison all his life high chance in a few years he’ll be back.

    And I really don’t like the attitude of “Well, you chose him.” Well, I didn’t know all this about him at that time. If I have the opportunity NOW to keep my children safe from a reckless suicidal meth head then I’m going to do everything in my power to protect them from that. Doesn’t matter if he’s their “father” or not. If he swears he’s “reformed” then he needs to prove it.

    That’s how these kids on the news end up dead. No one will step up and cut a parent out whenever they’ve shown they’re not mentally stable.
  • 10-29-2019, 11:48 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Some of the responses to mothers on this forum are outrageous and downright delusional. So I should force my children into a relationship with a meth addict who has a high probability of relapsing again because this isn’t the first time. Not every woman knows what they’re getting into with these deadbeat men it’s not like they meet you and say “Hi I have a hidden drug and mental health problems. Let’s make babies.” Some men are VERY manipulative and VERY good and pretending to be someone they aren’t for YEARS. My children are happy, healthy they have an amazing father figure in their lives. What’s the point of forcing this stranger on them? Gradually introducing him back into their lives through supervised visitation is the clear best option here. As far as “deserving” child support I stand by that 100%. I make over 70k per year and still live poor so that these kids can have the world. It’s time me and my children get to live comfortably as we deserve.

    Can’t really poison a relationship that doesn’t yet exist... And the biggest problem is who knows if he is here to stay he’s been in and out of prison all his life high chance in a few years he’ll be back.

    And I really don’t like the attitude of “Well, you chose him.” Well, I didn’t know all this about him at that time. If I have the opportunity NOW to keep my children safe from a reckless suicidal meth head then I’m going to do everything in my power to protect them from that. Doesn’t matter if he’s their “father” or not. If he swears he’s “reformed” then he needs to prove it.

    That’s how these kids on the news end up dead. No one will step up and cut a parent out whenever they’ve shown they’re not mentally stable.

    Let's make this easy:

    1) You chose to have kids with him. You did that. You. Not me, not anyone here or anywhere else. You. You have have found an "amazing father figure" later but that's moot.

    2) As the father he has rights AND obligations. They are not connected, however. Parenthood is not pay to play.

    3) If the father has been in and out of prison all his life then you should've had all of the warning you needed. See point 1.

    4) He's not a stranger, he's the father. He has the right to be the father and you don't really have a say in that. See point 1. Again.

    5) Child support may indeed improve your standard of living by way of improving the children's but it's not for you. It's for them.

    6) Supervised visitation may be the beginning but it's not the end if he keeps it together and you need to make peace with that. If you try to create distance between the children and their father you are the one that may well pay the price.

    7) Cut the dramatics and histrionics in your last sentence. This is just nonsense.

    8) You may not like the attitude of "you chose him." but, well, you did (point 1...again and again and again). You are stuck with him and you need to come up with a way to make peace with it. You will be compelled to comply with a parenting plan/custody plan and child support order. It will eventually become more time than you like if he stays clean and continues on the straight and narrow.

    The single mom sacred cow doesn't impress me. Mom's are just as capable of damaging their children, if not more so and in more insidious ways. So, you don't like what I have to say, well, no one ever said life is fair.
  • 10-29-2019, 12:12 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    All 8 of these points and you manage to miss the main one. When a parent who is not mentally stable and has a history of serious drug abuse and suicide attempts. This proves they are unfit. Placing a child into an unfit parent’s care when they are currently living in an environment that they are thriving in is ridiculous. This guy is 6 years older than me and I was only 18 when I met him after years of manipulation I got out of that with my kids unscathed. Also it’s not the future I’m worried about. If he truly stays clean and turns out to be a great father then he can spent as much time with the kids as he wants. That would be the ideal situation. Who wants fatherless children? But to come straight out of jail and force his way into their lives day one is not okay. Especially if he’s just going to be right back out of their lives in a few years. Now if you can give actual advice on the present times outcome with this joint 50/50 timeshare petition based on the FACTs I stated in the original post and not on your “assumptions” about me that would be actually more helpful.

    Also let’s not forget that this petition was in direct response of the child support order I initiated so there is a better chance that he doesn’t really care about spending time with the kids but is trying to avoid the maximum amount.
  • 10-29-2019, 12:51 PM
    OKisNotOK
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Sweetie,

    You need a reality check and counseling. You will need to comply with court orders you disagree with. It is better for the children if you do it with a smile on your face rather than the attitude you have displayed on this forum. Since you yourself obviously have issues (or you would not have gotten involved much less had children with him), get yourself some help and someone to vent at rather than bring your anger and resentment into your home. Your children will benefit.

    You need a no nonsense attorney - i.e. one that will not tell you what you want to hear but one who will tell you what you need to hear. I am sad for the situation both of you have created for your shared children. I hope both of you will put them first, In spite of your belief you are doing so, your attitude on this forum troubles me. And if you will not get counseling for yourself, get it for the kids; better still, get all into counseling.

    And take the previous comments seriously; there is much wisdom in them.
  • 10-29-2019, 12:56 PM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    All 8 of these points and you manage to miss the main one. When a parent who is not mentally stable and has a history of serious drug abuse and suicide attempts. This proves they are unfit. Placing a child into an unfit parent’s care when they are currently living in an environment that they are thriving in is ridiculous. This guy is 6 years older than me and I was only 18 when I met him after years of manipulation I got out of that with my kids unscathed. Also it’s not the future I’m worried about. If he truly stays clean and turns out to be a great father then he can spent as much time with the kids as he wants. That would be the ideal situation. Who wants fatherless children? But to come straight out of jail and force his way into their lives day one is not okay. Especially if he’s just going to be right back out of their lives in a few years. Now if you can give actual advice on the present times outcome with this joint 50/50 timeshare petition based on the FACTs I stated in the original post and not on your “assumptions” about me that would be actually more helpful.

    Also let’s not forget that this petition was in direct response of the child support order I initiated so there is a better chance that he doesn’t really care about spending time with the kids but is trying to avoid the maximum amount.

    I didn't miss it or gloss over it. Until the state deems him unfit your opinion will not matter once the matter comes to the court. As the father he has the right to sue for custody, as do you. It's highly unlikely that the courts would uproot the kids and hand the over but he will get visitation and eventually he will get overnights and it will all be spelled out very clearly in the court ordered plan. As the kids will likely continue to live with you primarily he will also have to pay CS.

    the "assumptions" I made about you were based purely on the increasing rancor when it was pointed out that you don't have full control of this situation. You also have no real idea what he cares about.

    The advice? Get an attorney. That's the best advice that you'll get here as to how to proceed. Everything else here is predicated on only the lopsided view that you present and what we, collectively know about how these systems work.

    If it helps you feel any better we've had hard words for plenty of fathers who say the same things that you did.
  • 10-29-2019, 01:05 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Wow you people are so deluded if you work in law this is everything wrong in the world today. I do have a meeting with the best attorney in the area and I’ll make sure to update you all on the outcome of a REAL lawyers advice.

    LOL hand my children over to a meth addict with a smile on my face. You can’t be seriously this ignorant.

    Thank you. I’m 100% in agreement with graduated visitation under the assumption he stays clean and out of trouble. What I was NOT okay was the idea he can get 50/50 time share out of the gate while not paying CS like this petition states.
  • 10-30-2019, 09:46 AM
    OKisNotOK
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    If court ordered, you WILL hand the children over for visitation or risk losing custody. You do not get to set the terms of when this occurs; the court will. If your attorney does not tell you this, get a new one.

    You picked him to be the father of your children. You now have to live with the consequences of this decision. Don't make it harder on the children by turning this into a war in the courts. Every one of you - especially the children - will lose.
  • 10-30-2019, 01:46 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Clearly you can’t read. I said I was 100% okay with gradual visitation rights no where did I say I wouldn’t hand my children over. Just not with a smile. Not that they’re going to go willingly anyway my oldest has made it clear he’s not going and demands his father continue to visit him here like he has been doing.
  • 10-30-2019, 01:59 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Clearly you can’t read. I said I was 100% okay with gradual visitation rights no where did I say I wouldn’t hand my children over. Just not with a smile. Not that they’re going to go willingly anyway my oldest has made it clear he’s not going and demands his father continue to visit him here like he has been doing.

    You need to understand that you or your oldest isn't going to be the one that decides these things.
  • 10-30-2019, 02:10 PM
    Mercy&Grace
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    If any of the children do not go according to the court order. You are the one the court will penalize. It is never a good idea to allow a child to dictate to their parent(s) what they will and will not do.
  • 10-30-2019, 03:11 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    He’s not the type of guy that’s going to force them to go if they don’t want to and I doubt he’ll report it. Again this whole time share thing is his way of trying to avoid child support. Up until the point I filed, he’s had no interest in spending time with the children anyway.
  • 10-30-2019, 06:01 PM
    bcr229
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    What exactly did your ex file for? In the OP there is a lot of info from you about CS issues and his allegations against you, but you never said exactly what he was requesting in his motion. Does he want full custody with you getting visitation and paying CS, 50-50 custody with no CS, or a court-ordered visitation plan, or something else?
  • 10-30-2019, 07:21 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    He’s not the type of guy that’s going to force them to go if they don’t want to and I doubt he’ll report it. Again this whole time share thing is his way of trying to avoid child support. Up until the point I filed, he’s had no interest in spending time with the children anyway.

    Here's an idea. Have the new "father figure" adopt and support your children. I'm sure that your ex will gladly consent to that and be out of your lives forever.
  • 10-30-2019, 07:36 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    I just want him to take financial responsibility while gradually easing his way back into their lives. I said this because I know there’s a high chance of him ending up back where he in was. At least when he abandoned them as babies they can’t remember. Getting emotionally attached to him now only for him to disappear to prison again will be more traumatic for them. Not to mention, for a 3rd time he’d likely be gone for the rest of their childhood. I’m not trying to kick him “out of their lives forever.” I just need to be sure he’s not the same reckless mentally ill drug addict I had to deal with 6 years ago before I let my kids live with him 50% of the time.

    He’s filing for joint physical and legal custody with a long list of stipulations such as them remaining under my health insurance through my job (avoiding medical expenses) and no child support being paid to either party. It literally says this I’m not making this up. Not sure what wack job he has for a lawyer that thinks this will fly. But they’ve bullied me into believing this is true because he’s accused me of denying him visitation which I did for good reason. He’s been harassing me and arguing in front of the kids ever since I filed for child support so I had to tell him not to come around. My mom has reached out to his mom but there’s been no response from him since July and he has not seen or attempted to contact the children since then.
  • 10-30-2019, 08:55 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    The bottom line here is that he can ASK for anything and everything and if you can prove everything you say about him (with evidence that will satisfy the court) what he gets will be limited and he'll still be ordered to pay child support.
  • 10-30-2019, 09:25 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Is there any chance he’ll have to pay my attorney fees for filing this frivolous, retaliatory action? This could have easily been handled outside of court with a little bit of effort to communicate on his end without harassment. When does mediation come into play? Can my lawyer request it?
  • 10-31-2019, 01:20 AM
    llworking
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Is there any chance he’ll have to pay my attorney fees for filing this frivolous, retaliatory action? This could have easily been handled outside of court with a little bit of effort to communicate on his end without harassment. When does mediation come into play? Can my lawyer request it?

    No, he is not going to have to pay your legal fees because this will not be considered to be frivolous. He has the right to file to establish parenting time even if he has no chance of getting what he wants.

    Also, I disagree that you will need the kind of hard proof that others have said you will need. A 50/50 timeshare is not standard anywhere, therefore its not a default that will happen unless you can prove its not appropriate.

    You will however need proof if you want to limit his visitation to supervised.
  • 10-31-2019, 07:12 AM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Even though it should be very obvious to a judge that since this action was filed IMMEDIATELY after I filed for child support with the stipulation of not paying child support or medical care that it’s not really about him genuinely wanting to establish parenting time but more about him dodging financial responsibility. Why should I be out $5000 for this nonsense? He should be interviewed on how much he knows about these kids having spent the last year visiting with them in their home. Or give examples of how he plans on encouraging these kids to continue to thrive.
  • 10-31-2019, 07:49 AM
    llworking
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Even though it should be very obvious to a judge that since this action was filed IMMEDIATELY after I filed for child support with the stipulation of not paying child support or medical care that it’s not really about him genuinely wanting to establish parenting time but more about him dodging financial responsibility. Why should I be out $5000 for this nonsense? He should be interviewed on how much he knows about these kids having spent the last year visiting with them in their home. Or give examples of how he plans on encouraging these kids to continue to thrive.

    I am sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.
  • 10-31-2019, 07:51 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Even though it should be very obvious to a judge that since this action was filed IMMEDIATELY after I filed for child support with the stipulation of not paying child support or medical care that it’s not really about him genuinely wanting to establish parenting time but more about him dodging financial responsibility. Why should I be out $5000 for this nonsense? He should be interviewed on how much he knows about these kids having spent the last year visiting with them in their home. Or give examples of how he plans on encouraging these kids to continue to thrive.

    Careful. your disingenuous hypocrisy is showing.

    He is enforcing his rights and prerogatives as the father just as you are doing the same as the mother. That happens in court. If you don't like the cost of an attorney to enforce your rights you don't need to have one. You can do it all on your own.

    Oh, and it's not nonsense. Not to him. For whatever reason he's willing to pony up the cash to do it, perhaps you should take him a bit more seriously.

    Finally, he's using an classic negotiation technique. Ask for the world so as to establish a basis for negotiation. You have no idea what he's willing to settle for, but I'm sure it's more than you want him to have.
  • 10-31-2019, 08:39 AM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    He has the cheapest lawyer in town everyone I’ve asked says she’s a terrible lawyer and batty as hell. He’s on a cheap payment plan with her so as to “pony up” and pay any cash is nonsense as well. Better to pay $400 a month for a few months to a lawyer than $600 a month for the next 10 years for the children... if he can get out of it or get it reduced.

    Why play dumb here? Ok I KNOW who this guy is and what he is about. He threatened me to my face that he was going to do this if I filed for child support and I didn’t take it seriously because I knew his broke self couldn’t afford a real lawyer. You’re acting like I’m making unreasonable assumptions here and it’s not even the case. If it comes down to it I’ll ask him to terminate his rights all together and he doesn’t have to pay me a dime. I’m just not going to allow him to be the Disneyland Dad, have all the fun, and take no financial responsibility.
  • 10-31-2019, 09:03 AM
    BooRennie
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    He has the cheapest lawyer in town everyone I’ve asked says she’s a terrible lawyer and batty as hell. He’s on a cheap payment plan with her so as to “pony up” and pay any cash is nonsense as well. Better to pay $400 a month for a few months to a lawyer than $600 a month for the next 10 years for the children... if he can get out of it or get it reduced.

    Why play dumb here? Ok I KNOW who this guy is and what he is about. He threatened me to my face that he was going to do this if I filed for child support and I didn’t take it seriously because I knew his broke self couldn’t afford a real lawyer. You’re acting like I’m making unreasonable assumptions here and it’s not even the case. If it comes down to it I’ll ask him to terminate his rights all together and he doesn’t have to pay me a dime. I’m just not going to allow him to be the Disneyland Dad, have all the fun, and take no financial responsibility.

    The State will not allow that, unless you have a spouse who is willing to adopt.
  • 10-31-2019, 09:52 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    He has the cheapest lawyer in town everyone I’ve asked says she’s a terrible lawyer and batty as hell. He’s on a cheap payment plan with her so as to “pony up” and pay any cash is nonsense as well. Better to pay $400 a month for a few months to a lawyer than $600 a month for the next 10 years for the children... if he can get out of it or get it reduced.

    Why play dumb here? Ok I KNOW who this guy is and what he is about. He threatened me to my face that he was going to do this if I filed for child support and I didn’t take it seriously because I knew his broke self couldn’t afford a real lawyer. You’re acting like I’m making unreasonable assumptions here and it’s not even the case. If it comes down to it I’ll ask him to terminate his rights all together and he doesn’t have to pay me a dime. I’m just not going to allow him to be the Disneyland Dad, have all the fun, and take no financial responsibility.

    I feel for your kids. It sounds like they are in for quite a ride.

    I'm out!
  • 11-03-2019, 09:36 AM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Update in case anyone is curious how an actual lawyer responded.

    1. He absolutely saw through this scheme of a previously deadbeat or barely involved parent attempting to file for custody after being hit with a child support order. This is a small town with a high percentage of young women getting pregnant and males who don't take responsibility so he sees this situation/scheme occur A LOT.

    2. However! He also knows Missouri law well and it is a 50/50 state. He explained regardless of whatever criminal activity he's done in the past, I would have to provide proof that he's still involved in that activity/substance abuse TODAY to qualify for any limited visitation. The state encourages the child to have as much contact with both parents as possible. He proposed we respond with a 50/50 joint legal custody, sole physical custody, every other weekend/holiday visitation, with his child support payment calculated at an even higher price due to the fact I will continue to keep the kids under my medical insurance through my job. He said that if the children truly cannot adjust and oppose to continuing with the established parenting plan, children starting at age 8 can have their opinions taken into consideration by a judge if it appears to be a valid one. For example, a child can't say "I wanna live with my mommy because all my favorite toys are there. or I wanna live with my daddy because he has no rules, etc." If he's truly neglectful and irresponsible and the child him or herself can articulate examples of that it will be taken seriously.

    3. He also stated that unless I physically denied him visitation, as in refusing to answer the door when he shows up or taking the kids out of town to avoid him, his text messages of me saying for him to not come around anymore if he can't help financially are not going to hold up in court. Due to the fact that he himself has not attempted to contact me or visit the kids since July or provide any child support during this time will only make him look worse. He also mentioned that this is usually the excuse that the fathers will try to use to support their case and that a judge will see straight through this.

    4. He also said there is a chance that the father will have to pay my attorney fees, as again, this county is "hip" to this custody scheme. If the father had evidence of me physically denying visitation as I stated above then he would not be paying any fees because he has the right to fight for visitation if currently not receiving any. In that case, there would even be a chance I would have to pay HIS fees.
  • 11-04-2019, 09:21 AM
    jumanji
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting BossMommy88
    View Post
    Update in case anyone is curious how an actual lawyer responded.

    1. He absolutely saw through this scheme of a previously deadbeat or barely involved parent attempting to file for custody after being hit with a child support order. This is a small town with a high percentage of young women getting pregnant and males who don't take responsibility so he sees this situation/scheme occur A LOT.

    2. However! He also knows Missouri law well and it is a 50/50 state. He explained regardless of whatever criminal activity he's done in the past, I would have to provide proof that he's still involved in that activity/substance abuse TODAY to qualify for any limited visitation. The state encourages the child to have as much contact with both parents as possible. He proposed we respond with a 50/50 joint legal custody, sole physical custody, every other weekend/holiday visitation, with his child support payment calculated at an even higher price due to the fact I will continue to keep the kids under my medical insurance through my job. He said that if the children truly cannot adjust and oppose to continuing with the established parenting plan, children starting at age 8 can have their opinions taken into consideration by a judge if it appears to be a valid one. For example, a child can't say "I wanna live with my mommy because all my favorite toys are there. or I wanna live with my daddy because he has no rules, etc." If he's truly neglectful and irresponsible and the child him or herself can articulate examples of that it will be taken seriously.

    3. He also stated that unless I physically denied him visitation, as in refusing to answer the door when he shows up or taking the kids out of town to avoid him, his text messages of me saying for him to not come around anymore if he can't help financially are not going to hold up in court. Due to the fact that he himself has not attempted to contact me or visit the kids since July or provide any child support during this time will only make him look worse. He also mentioned that this is usually the excuse that the fathers will try to use to support their case and that a judge will see straight through this.

    4. He also said there is a chance that the father will have to pay my attorney fees, as again, this county is "hip" to this custody scheme. If the father had evidence of me physically denying visitation as I stated above then he would not be paying any fees because he has the right to fight for visitation if currently not receiving any. In that case, there would even be a chance I would have to pay HIS fees.

    Oh boy. Congrats on finding a lawyer who's telling you what you want to hear, with just enough reality to keep it real.

    * Yeah.... no. A court will not give much weight to an 8yo's opinion. Especially when one of the parents (that would be you) has so clearly shown their disdain.

    * Did the lawyer also explain to you that until a court orders him to pay child support, he has no obligation to give you any money at all? Because he doesn't.

    * Did the lawyer tell you that it is rather standard to include insurance in parenting orders? It is. The court could easily order both of you to cover the children. Which won't give you a bonus on CS.

    * Don't expect Dad to be ordered to pay your legal fees - in whole or in part. It's rather an unusual occurrence, and nothing you've posted indicates that it would happen.

    At the end of the day, a lot of us discover - to our horror - that we chose our child(ren)'s other parent poorly. But choose them we did, and we're stuck with that choice. So we suck it up, teach our kids how to keep themselves safe, and yes, send them off with a smile and wishes for an enjoyable time.
  • 11-04-2019, 04:51 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    One, do you really think I’m dumb enough to let a lawyer or a judge feel any “disdain” I may hold towards this deadbeat? No. I’ve been as polite as a pageant queen. This is the Internet people I can vent candidly if I so choose to. Any mother in my position is going to feel frustrated whether or this is for the child’s best interest or not.

    Two, like I said and I’ve read this other places a child’s wishes CAN hold weight depending on the maturity of the child and if they are able to articulate valid reasons why they don’t want to visit a parent. Especially if it’s related to abuse or neglect.

    Three, why would a judge care who’s insurance they’re under if I agree to keep them under mine. I’m the one taking them to the drs anyway plus it’s not like he can afford to pay a medical bill and I won’t have my kids refused at a dr office because their irresponsible father doesn’t pay. I’d rather manage all that myself.

    My kids are sharp they know when I’m being fake and I’m not going to lie to them. Build their hope all up and give them a false hero image of their dad so that he can shatter it in a few years and be back in prison. I’ve worked hard building a village of good people around them so that they feel loved and accepted. They’re strong, happy, well raised young men and have every right to feel anyway they feel towards their dad. It’s up to him to fix that not me. Hopefully he does and everything turns out all unicorns and rainbows.

    Thanks all for your time!
  • 11-04-2019, 11:08 PM
    OKisNotOK
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    If your children have been abused, you should have reported it to your state's child protection agency. If you were aware of abuse and failed to report it, you will have issues with the agency as well.

    False reports will not go in your favor do don't even think about it in order to deny the father his rights..
  • 11-21-2019, 04:01 PM
    BossMommy88
    Re: Father Requesting Joint Custody to Avoid Paying Child Support
    Quote:

    Quoting OKisNotOK
    View Post
    If your children have been abused, you should have reported it to your state's child protection agency. If you were aware of abuse and failed to report it, you will have issues with the agency as well.

    False reports will not go in your favor do don't even think about it in order to deny the father his rights..

    Did I ever say they were abused? No, they definitely have not been. No progress has been made on this case I don’t think he’s paid his lawyer for the next phase. My lawyer made me pay the full amount for what it would cost to see this through upfront. Now I really just want my money back. Temporary visitation is in effect but he left after my kids said they didn’t want to go. No persuasion whatsoever. Like he has zero idea how to interact with them without me forcing the communication. He’s supposed to contact me to reschedule which he hasn’t and it’s been one week.
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:22 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2004 - 2018 ExpertLaw.com, All Rights Reserved