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Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental App
My question involves criminal law for the state of: Washington
I just found a W-2 form that my girlfriend has made without my knowledge with a fake company using my home address (I own my home). She is using the fake W-2 to try to assist her son in being approved for an apartment application.
She also filled out a rental application form with the same fake company listed under 'Current Employer', with my home address as the company's address. On the rental application, she has put my name down as 'Supervisor', with my phone number. There is a fake monthly salary listed as well.
I'm not sure, but I think this would be fraud on her part. I'm wondering if I am at risk criminally or civilly for having my address on the fake W-2 form, and for having my name and address on the rental application.
Thanks for reading.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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etrain80
I'm not sure, but I think this would be fraud on her part.
No question about it. She is providing false documentation to deceive the landlord about her son's qualifications for the apartment. That's fraud.
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etrain80
I'm wondering if I am at risk criminally or civilly for having my address on the fake W-2 form, and for having my name and address on the rental application.
You might. If you had no involvement in this other than she used your address then you aren't guilty of the fraud. The question is whether the police and prosecutor would believe that you did not have some active role in all this.
Might want to consider whether you want to stay in a relationship with a woman who apparently has no qualms about deceiving others to get what she wants. That could end up biting you some day.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
The fact you are aware of the fraud where you are represented as the employer is not in itself criminal but it surely looks bad for you. How you treat any inquiry the landlord might make is what would implicate you in the crime. If the landlord contacts you are you going to say you aren’t an employer and you did not issue the W2? A non- response where you allow the landlord to believe the info might be true is problematic for you as well.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
Sounds like fraud or attempted fraud, and the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk. You can mitigate that risk by exposing what she did. Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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pg1067
Sounds like fraud or attempted fraud, and the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk. You can mitigate that risk by exposing what she did. Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct.
A failure to expose the fraud does not make op complicit. That suggest anybody that sees a crime and fails to report it is complicit in that crime. Are you actually suggesting that is correct? If so, that would mean every time I see a person speeding and don’t report it I’m somehow complicit in the act..
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
A failure to expose the fraud does not make op complicit. That suggest anybody that sees a crime and fails to report it is complicit in that crime. Are you actually suggesting that is correct? If so, that would mean every time I see a person speeding and don’t report it I’m somehow complicit in the act..
Failing to report a crime you witness is generally not a crime (though there are limited exceptions to that). However, failing to report the crime along with any act of concealment of the crime may be an offense. In this case, for example, if the landlord were to contact the OP and his answers to the landlord's questions effectively help conceal the fraud (which does not mean active participation in the fraud) that may be criminal. In that regard, silence or misdirection when asked certain questions may amount to concealment. If contacted by the landlord he'd be better off telling the landlord the truth rather than responding in a way that helps conceal what the girlfriend has done.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
A failure to expose the fraud does not make op complicit. That suggest anybody that sees a crime and fails to report it is complicit in that crime. Are you actually suggesting that is correct? If so, that would mean every time I see a person speeding and don’t report it I’m somehow complicit in the act..
Your analogy to one who simply witnesses a crime is absurd. While the word "may" may have been a better choice than "will" in the last sentence of my prior response, I otherwise stand by it. The OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime. Now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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pg1067
Your analogy to one who simply witnesses a crime is absurd. While the word "may" may have been a better choice than "will" in the last sentence of my prior response, I otherwise stand by it. The OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime. Now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it.
if he does nothing, he commits no crime. Obviously if he becomes involved such as responding affirmatively to a landlord making an inquiry regarding the fraudulent document, then of course he is complicit and part of the crime itself.
My analogy was spot on as long as the guy does nothing to involve himself. Witnessing a crime is and failing to report said, in most situations, crime is not a crime as it does not cause one to be involved in the crime. There is no difference between witnessing an act of fraud and observing a speeding car. They are both crimes and unless you become actually involved in the illegal action, failing to report the crime does not make you a criminal.
Taxing matters: standing silent if one is asked about the “facts” by a party who would be the victim of the fraud is participation. At that point he would be acting to conceal the truth which of course makes him complicit. I am not speaking to such a situation. What I am saying is the guy is not a party to the crime by not actively reporting the actions to either the authorities or the victim.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
What I am saying is the guy is not a party to the crime by not actively reporting the actions to either the authorities or the victim.
That may be so, but reporting it would go a long way toward the police and prosecutor believing he had no active participation in it. So he has a choice to make. First, he can stay silent and hope that the fraud is not discovered or, if it is, that the prosecutor and police will believe he wasn't involved in it. Second, he can report it to the authorities or at least inform the landlord the documents are false, which should clear him of suspicion of being involved. Finally, he can try covering up for the girlfriend and thus put himself in jeopardy of conviction on that offense even if he doesn't go down for involvement in the crime itself.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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Taxing Matters
That may be so, but reporting it would go a long way toward the police and prosecutor believing he had no active participation in it. So he has a choice to make. First, he can stay silent and hope that the fraud is not discovered or, if it is, that the prosecutor and police will believe he wasn't involved in it. Second, he can report it to the authorities or at least inform the landlord the documents are false, which should clear him of suspicion of being involved. Finally, he can try covering up for the girlfriend and thus put himself in jeopardy of conviction on that offense even if he doesn't go down for involvement in the crime itself.
well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.
But regardless, unless he somehow participates in the crime he is not guilty of committing a crime as page1067 states he would be. That was my point.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
But regardless, unless he somehow participates in the crime he is not guilty of committing a crime as page1067 states he would be. That was my point.
When did I state that?
Let's review what I actually wrote.
"[T]the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk."
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"Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct." I subsequently stated that "may" may have been a better word than "will."
I then wrote that, because "[t]he OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime . . . now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it."
I also wrote a couple of other things like how the analogy you made was absurd, but that's beside the point.
Nowhere did I write that the OP has committed a crime. Being "complicit in her conduct" is not the same thing as committing a crime.
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jk
well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.
I have a very hard time believing you lack this ability. More likely, you are choosing not to do so.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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pg1067
When did I state that?
Let's review what I actually wrote.
"[T]the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk."
and
"Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct." I subsequently stated that "may" may have been a better word than "will."
I then wrote that, because "[t]he OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime . . . now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it."
I also wrote a couple of other things like how the analogy you made was absurd, but that's beside the point.
Nowhere did I write that the OP has committed a crime. Being "complicit in her conduct" is not the same thing as committing a crime.
I have a very hard time believing you lack this ability. More likely, you are choosing not to do so.
touche. Yes, I could actually suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend but my statement was not referring to a physical capacity. When a person says they can’t do something, it often is meant in a metaphorical way more than whether one actually has a capacity to perform the act. I am really starting to doubt your credentials. Anybody with much sense would understand it was said in the figurative sense rather than the literal sense. I guess that explains your inability to perceived the rhetorical question i posed earlier. I thought you were deeper than this (again, just so you know, metaphorical, not literal).
This is your statement
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Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct.
will or may doesn’t change the statement such that it removes a claim the op would be committing a crime should they not report the activity. Your statement is that unless he reports it, and for some reason you have also required the continued association with the woman which for,the life of me I can’t figure out how that would be a requisite for any possible crime involved, he will or may (depending on the version ofmthe statement ) make himself complicit in her conduct.
Obviously none of what you stated is true.
Knowing does not make him complicit
remaining with her doesn’t make him complicit
failing to report the subject activity doesn’t make him complicit
nor may those actions make him complicit, in a legal liability sense.
it would require some other action, and actually require none of the issues you stated, to make the guy complicit in her actions.
But im simply baffled by your statement that remaining associated with the woman would have anything to do with whether the guy has committed a crime. Now, maybe you know something I don’t. It is generally accepted that felons are are at least urged if not outright barred from associating with other known felons. Are you aware that the op is a felon and prohibited from associating with other known felons? Would that apply even before or even if she is not convicted? Curious minds want to know.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.
Perhaps you wouldn't do it, but I would. Indeed, if I were in the OP shoes I'd let the landlord know what was going on, probably right after I dumped the girlfriend. I've seen what happens when people get involved with others who have no trouble lying to get what they want. Sooner or later that liar will lie to their lover/spouse, too. Trusting someone whom you know to be a liar is foolish. If you think that person will never lie to you, then you have the additional problem that you are deceiving yourself.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
I would probably counsel the person and tell them how bad of an idea it is. Sometimes people’s intentions are great but the execution sucks. Without knowing the people it may be as much poor judgment as it is a true intent to lie. Ive seen parents do all sorts of stupid things to help their kids.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
I would probably counsel the person and tell them how bad of an idea it is. Sometimes people’s intentions are great but the execution sucks. Without knowing the people it may be as much poor judgment as it is a true intent to lie. Ive seen parents do all sorts of stupid things to help their kids.
I have a very hard time believing that someone who creates a false W-2 with the name of a fictitious employer and fills out the rental application listing that fictitious employer as the son's current employer does not understand that what she is doing is lying and dishonest. That's not just "poor execution" or poor judgment. There are some things that I'd put in the category of simply poor judgment, but this is well over the line to dishonesty and fraud.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
Wouldn't most landlords call to verify employment anyway?
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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bcr229
Wouldn't most landlords call to verify employment anyway?
The landlord might do that. But remember, the girlfriend gave a false employer and gave the OP's name and number as her son's supervisor at this fictitious company. So when the landlord calls the OP, the question is what will he tell the landlord? Will he actively lie and be a part of the fraud by playing the part of the supervisor? Or if not that, will he instead give answers that help conceal what she did, and thus possibly commit a crime by the concealment? Or will he tell the truth: that the company doesn't exist and that he's not the son's supervisor?
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
Well, I would tell the truth and that my EX girlfriend falsified the document.
At least the OP knows such a call may be coming, versus getting blindsided.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
Giving false information on some rental applications. Can be grounds for eviction.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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Taxing Matters
The landlord might do that. But remember, the girlfriend gave a false employer and gave the OP's name and number as her son's supervisor at this fictitious company. So when the landlord calls the OP, the question is what will he tell the landlord? Will he actively lie and be a part of the fraud by playing the part of the supervisor? Or if not that, will he instead give answers that help conceal what she did, and thus possibly commit a crime by the concealment? Or will he tell the truth: that the company doesn't exist and that he's not the son's supervisor?
Hopefully, for his sake, he will state that he has no knowledge of what the caller is talking about...whether he breaks up with his girlfriend or not.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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Taxing Matters
The landlord might do that. But remember, the girlfriend gave a false employer and gave the OP's name and number as her son's supervisor at this fictitious company. So when the landlord calls the OP, the question is what will he tell the landlord? Will he actively lie and be a part of the fraud by playing the part of the supervisor? Or if not that, will he instead give answers that help conceal what she did, and thus possibly commit a crime by the concealment? Or will he tell the truth: that the company doesn't exist and that he's not the son's supervisor?
the world may never know
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtbCOpx8Sk
maybe it’s that we live in very different worlds. I can imagine a parent doing something this stupid thinking since there is no injured party (as long as the kid doesn’t skip out on the lease) and it’s a harmless action it’s ok to do it. It doesn’t make it not s crime but it can allow her to justify it in her mind. Good people do stupid things sometimes thinking they are doing the right thing. Hell, our president lies on a very regular basis and a good percentage of the population seems to be ok with it. That kind of shows the mentality of the population in general.
and just to remind you: I have maintained my position that as long as the guy does not become involved in the issue and is dishonest about the w2, he is not committing a crime. Obviously once he crosses the line and acts to conceal the fraud, even it it’s only by silence when asked anything about it by the landlord, he would have crossed the line.
Beyond contacting the op, if the landlord does any sort of actual background check he should find some inconsistencies between what the report shows and the facts on the application.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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jk
maybe it’s that we live in very different worlds.
We live in the same world; we just have differing views of it. I too can imagine a parent doing it and perhaps justifying it because she thinks no harm will come of it. But she certainly knows she's deceiving the landlord. She's just coming up with excuses in her head to justify the lie. If she thinks that kind of deception is ok, then IMO she has a broken moral compass. Perhaps you think otherwise.
And think about this. She's lying about the kid having a job that can support the rent. So that suggests right off the bat that the kid may fail to pay rent or skip out on the lease when he finds out it's too expensive for him. Because if he did have a job that would be enough to qualify for the apartment the deception would not have been needed. So the risk of harm is there for the landlord, unless Mom is going to pay it for the kid, in which case why didn't she just guarantee the lease for the kid?
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jk
and just to remind you: I have maintained my position that as long as the guy does not become involved in the issue and is dishonest about the w2, he is not committing a crime. Obviously once he crosses the line and acts to conceal the fraud, even it it’s only by silence when asked anything about it by the landlord, he would have crossed the line.
And I've not disagreed with any of that. I just stated my view that if I were in the OP's place, I'd likely dump the girlfriend because of that broken moral compass and if contacted by the landlord I'd let the landlord know the employment information he was given was bad.
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Taxing Matters
And I've not disagreed with any of that. I just stated my view that if I were in the OP's place, I'd likely dump the girlfriend because of that broken moral compass and if contacted by the landlord I'd let the landlord know the employment information he was given was bad.
It's easy to say that when it isn't your decision. Sometimes it depends on which head has more influence (big or little). And which side of the brain is stronger. Logic is usually out the window in an emotional decision.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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etrain80
She also filled out a rental application form with the same fake company listed under 'Current Employer', with my home address as the company's address.
Unless incompetent or overly lenient, any apartment management screening a new application should always do a web search on an employer name, and coming up empty would be a HUGE red flag. I would say chances are that your girlfriend’s deception will not get past first base, and your best approach if they contact you would simply be to deny knowledge of any such business.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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budwad
It's easy to say that when it isn't your decision. Sometimes it depends on which head has more influence (big or little). And which side of the brain is stronger. Logic is usually out the window in an emotional decision.
I realize that some guys — maybe a lot of guys — would overlook their girlfriend doing this sort of deception because love is blind. That then later may bite them when that girlfriend with the broken moral compass deceives them too. But I'm not one to overlook that sort of thing. I'm no longer young and have learned a few things along the way.
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
Haven't we all. I bet I'm older than you.:friendly_wink:
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Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap
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budwad
Haven't we all. I bet I'm older than you.:friendly_wink:
Maybe so. With age often comes some wisdom. I certainly wish I knew at age 20 what I now now about people, relationships, and life in general. :D I haven't stopped learning, and hopefully will not stop learning new things even when I am quite old and enjoying my golden years.