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Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots

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  • 08-07-2019, 02:56 PM
    TurboT8er
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Heh, I was waiting for that. My neighbors in my apartment have a disabled child that boards the bus everyday around the same time I leave for work, and the bus stops right in front of my vehicle.

    In the past, I've squeezed by the bus to get out (I'll wait until the kid is at least on the bus and there's no danger of hitting anyone), but today there must've been a new driver who didn't take kindly to me doing that. He threatened to report me if I did it again despite me being polite and cooperative.
    Since he parks directly in front of me, I'm unable to see any flashing lights, stop sign, etc.

    This post is just so I know my rights, but in the future I think I'll start parking a little further down.
  • 08-07-2019, 04:00 PM
    RJR
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Turbo, you are assuming that IF you are correct, you can pass a bus unloading school kids as long as it's on property you describe. Some other law may apply, would you think? Endangering children, disorderly conduct, causing a disturbance, breach of the peace!! Lots of laws on the books. Other traffic laws may apply also, how can you be sure they would not?

    Does any Municipality have a stricter definition? Like when a bus is stopped "anywhere" or such.
  • 08-07-2019, 05:48 PM
    llworking
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    As written, your statement above would indicate you think it UNLIKELY that a school bus parked at the Adventure Science Center would NOT be considered "property owned, operated, or used by a school or educational institution". In other words, you would think it likely that it was property within that description. I suspect, however, that the double negative is not really what you intended here, given your use of the phrase "just because". If what you meant is that it is unlikely that the bus would be considered to be on "property owned, operated, or used by a school or educational institution" then I agree with you. It is not property owned, operated or used by a school, and I don't think the Adventure Science Center would fall within the definition of an "educational institution". In any event, it's pretty clear that an apartment complex parking lot is not included with the reach of the statute.

    If you are talking about the parking lot of a high rise apartment building (or two) I might agree with you. However, if you are talking about the streets in the apartment complexes in the majority of my city, I would not. The streets in the vast majority of the apartment complexes in my city are about the same as any suburban streets.
  • 08-07-2019, 06:04 PM
    jk
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    If you are talking about the parking lot of a high rise apartment building (or two) I might agree with you. However, if you are talking about the streets in the apartment complexes in the majority of my city, I would not. The streets in the vast majority of the apartment complexes in my city are about the same as any suburban streets.

    But they are obviously not highways under the definition of the law and I don’t see how they would fit under the section addressing private property, at least how I interpret “used by a school or educational institution”. I believe “used by” refers to actual control by the school or educational institution. There is none when the bus drives upon the apartment lot to drop off children. Then to differentiate between a road or parking area within the complex: A drive within an apartment complex is no different than the parking areas of an apartment complex. It is private property not held out to the public and is what it is due to the assignment by the owner or operator of the lot.
  • 08-07-2019, 06:06 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    If you are talking about the parking lot of a high rise apartment building (or two) I might agree with you. However, if you are talking about the streets in the apartment complexes in the majority of my city, I would not. The streets in the vast majority of the apartment complexes in my city are about the same as any suburban streets.

    Two points on that. First, I used the term "parking lot" and I think you (and most people) readily know the difference between a street and a parking lot. :D An apartment complex parking lot (whether high rise or not) clearly does not fall within the statute. Second, the statute uses the term "highway" and highway as defined in the statute is limited to those roads/streets that are "publicly maintained." So a private road in a HOA that is maintained by the HOA (and thus not "publicly maintained") would also not fall within the statute. In some states the motor vehicle law definitions to do extend to private roads that are open to the public to use; your state might be one of them. But not all states are the same, and Tennessee has limited its definition to those roads that are publicly maintained.
  • 08-07-2019, 07:00 PM
    TurboT8er
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    Begs the question.

    Why are you looking for laws that would allow you to just drive past a school bus picking up children in a privately owned parking lot?

    People who ask those kinds of questions either got cited for something and they want to know how to beat it or they are idiots looking to commit offenses with impunity.

    Heh, I was waiting for that question. Basically, I just want to know my rights, as I don't intend on regularly driving past stopped buses. I was in a bit of an awkward situation this morning: my neighbor's disabled child was boarding the bus, which was stopped directly in front of where I was parked. I waited until he was on the bus and they were raising the platform in the back, and then I carefully started to squeeze by the front. From my position, I didn't see any flashing lights or stop sign. The driver ran around and waved for me to stop, then threatened to report me. I politely cooperated and told him I didn't see the stop sign.

    I had done that many times before, but I'm guessing the driver was new and wasn't as tolerant. In the future, I plan on parking further down to avoid that situation. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why the law is in place, but situations like that are a bit silly and if I'm not legally obligated to stop, then I'll use my best judgement and proceed past.
  • 08-07-2019, 07:53 PM
    L-1
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    I'm going to throw a wrench into all of this.

    You said this occurred in the parking lot of a hi-rise apartment building. Who owns the apartment building or grounds they are located on? Is this public housing by any chance or owned by a government agency? I ask this because some states (California for one) have obscure laws stating that when public traffic is allowed on paths, roads, parking lots or grounds that are publicly owned, traffic laws are just as enforceable there as they are on the highway.

    If you were on on publicly owned land, you may be in a similar situation.
  • 08-07-2019, 08:19 PM
    TurboT8er
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting L-1
    View Post
    I'm going to throw a wrench into all of this.

    You said this occurred in the parking lot of a hi-rise apartment building. Who owns the apartment building or grounds they are located on? Is this public housing by any chance or owned by a government agency? I ask this because some states (California for one) have obscure laws stating that when public traffic is allowed on paths, roads, parking lots or grounds that are publicly owned, traffic laws are just as enforceable there as they are on the highway.

    If you were on on publicly owned land, you may be in a similar situation.

    As far as I know, it is not government owned. It's a gated apartment complex owned by a (large) private company where none of the streets are named.
  • 08-07-2019, 08:31 PM
    cbg
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    In other words, if the law doesn't obligate you to stop, you're willing to risk hitting a child to avoid a short wait.
  • 08-07-2019, 08:45 PM
    TurboT8er
    Re: Stopping for School Buses in Private Parking Lots
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    In other words, if the law doesn't obligate you to stop, you're willing to risk hitting a child to avoid a short wait.

    With that logic, driving past any stopped vehicle could yield the same results. If I'm 100% sure there are no children outside the bus and, like this morning, I'm moving very slow, then yes, I'm willing to take that risk.
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