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Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong

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  • 07-07-2019, 11:35 AM
    debodun
    Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: New York

    I work a volunteer job bringing food to shut-ins (a.k.a. meals-on-wheels). Last week, there was a new client on the route. When I finally found the house, there were signs out on the chain link fence: "NO TRESPASSING" and "BEWARE OF DOG" and a bungee-type chain on the gate. I opened the gate and went to the door, assuming I was expected and rang the doorbell, but no one came to the door.

    If no one comes to the door withing a reasonable time, we are instructed to then try to open the door and check on the client (welfare check). I opened the door (but didn't actually go inside) about a foot and called "HELLO! HELLO!" When I did that, a boxer looking dog came bounding out and nipped me on the arm (not serious - didn't even bleed, more like a scrape), but it continued to was snarl and snap at me and jumping all over. I had to kick it the chest to get it all back inside so I could close the door. During all this, the client never replied or made their presence known. Of course, I reported it to the meal service, but being a long weekend, no one was in the office. Even when they get the message, I don't know what they can do about it. It seems to me this should all have been arranged prior to my arrival so that I would have been expected and this wouldn't have happened.

    Who is the wrong party here - me for ignoring the trespassing signs when I was instructed to deliver a meal, the meal service for not insuring I was expected by the client, or the client who knew a meal was going to be delivered (or they wouldn't be on the list) and was obviously not there?
  • 07-07-2019, 11:43 AM
    llworking
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting debodun
    View Post
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: New York

    I work a volunteer job bringing food to shut-ins (a.k.a. meals-on-wheels). Last week, there was a new client on the route. When I finally found the house, there were signs out on the chain link fence: "NO TRESPASSING" and "BEWARE OF DOG" and a bungee-type chain on the gate. I opened the gate and went to the door, assuming I was expected and rang the doorbell, but no one came to the door.

    If no one comes to the door withing a reasonable time, we are instructed to then try to open the door and check on the client (welfare check). I opened the door (but didn't actually go inside) about a foot and called "HELLO! HELLO!" When I did that, a boxer looking dog came bounding out and nipped me on the arm (not serious - didn't even bleed, more like a scrape), but it continued to was snarl and snap at me and jumping all over. I had to kick it the chest to get it all back inside so I could close the door. During all this, the client never replied or made their presence known. Of course, I reported it to the meal service, but being a long weekend, no one was in the office. Even when they get the message, I don't know what they can do about it. It seems to me this should all have been arranged prior to my arrival so that I would have been expected and this wouldn't have happened.

    Who is the wrong party here - me for ignoring the trespassing signs when I was instructed to deliver a meal, the meal service for not insuring I was expected by the client, or the client who knew a meal was going to be delivered (or they wouldn't be on the list) and was obviously not there?

    I think that the fault goes all the way around. However, it mostly falls on you. You shouldn't have opened the door when you saw the "beware of dog" sign.
  • 07-07-2019, 11:44 AM
    LegalWriter
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    What are you looking to gain? Yes, the company should have made sure the client knew food was coming but when you have a warning that tells there's a dog and it's not in the yard, you don't open the front door. Leave the food on the porch and go.
  • 07-07-2019, 11:59 AM
    debodun
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting LegalWriter
    View Post
    Leave the food on the porch and go.

    We can't leave food if we do not see the client. The meals have to be placed in the hand of the client or another responsible person. We are instructed to also check on the client to make sure they are okay. It put me in the middle of following the meal service's instructions or the client's.
  • 07-07-2019, 01:02 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting debodun
    View Post
    We are instructed to also check on the client to make sure they are okay. It put me in the middle of following the meal service's instructions or the client's

    So, you are admitting that you blindly follow instructions and don't have the ability to apply common sense to them?
  • 07-07-2019, 01:13 PM
    debodun
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    I am admitting that I assumed the client was informed that meals would be delivered and take steps to see someone was there to accept them and have the dog under control.
  • 07-07-2019, 01:21 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    And the client would assume you would trespass on the property to make the delivery how?
    Frankly around here if you opened someone's door like that, you'd be more likely to find a bullet going through you than fangs.
  • 07-07-2019, 01:26 PM
    jk
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    a big problem in this entire system is sometimes the elderly aren’t completely clear minded. That means they may not remember mow is coming “today” or within any time frame.


    presuming the delivery is prearranged, the trespassing sign is moot. You have been invited to enter for the purpose of delivering the meal.

    the bigger problem is the beware of dog sign. You got lucky with this one. I have known dogs that were more or less silent until they attacked. If such a dog was outside you would have been bitten, maybe worse. I would hesitate to enter any property that has such a sign without the resident being present. Too many possibilities.

    As far as welfare checks: it’s an honorable intent but unless the resident is aware of the possibility of you entering the home at the actual time of entry, well, I’m surprised nobody has been shot yet. Some elderly are quite protective of their home and may shoot somebody entering their home. I realize you knock but it’s possible all that did was wake them up and they never heard you announce who you are until it’s too late.

    While meals on wheels is a great service, there has to be some specific details worked out with each recipient as to any details neeeding to be known at the time of delivery. No delivery person should be getting bitten by a dog, or worse.
  • 07-07-2019, 01:56 PM
    debodun
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    presuming the delivery is prearranged, the trespassing sign is moot. You have been invited to enter for the purpose of delivering the meal.


    Well, that's what I thought. It was never a problem before this and I've been working on meal delivery for 8 years. Also, if a client is not going to be home between 11 am and 1 pm, they are supposed to call the meal service and cancel delivery for that day. I entered with good intentions, assuming all the proper arrangements had been made. Whoever scheduled the meals for this client should have followed through with instructions to them, or the client call and cancel.

    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    And the client would assume you would trespass on the property to make the delivery how?

    How am I supposed to make sure the client gets the meal unless I go to the door, and that door is 20 feet inside a chain link fence?
  • 07-07-2019, 02:49 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting debodun
    View Post
    Well, that's what I thought. It was never a problem before this and I've been working on meal delivery for 8 years.

    It only takes once to get you mauled by a dog, or shot. I've had burglary claims in rural areas where the insured says "I've been here all my life and never had to lock my door." Well, dude, you were long overdue.

    Quote:

    Quoting debodun
    View Post

    How am I supposed to make sure the client gets the meal unless I go to the door, and that door is 20 feet inside a chain link fence?

    How about carrying the clients' phone numbers with you in case you run into that scenario again.

    Even mail carriers that are supposed to deliver in rain, snow, sleet, whatever, are allowed to say no to dog risks.

    Your employer needs to revisit that welfare check thing or he's going to have a very large workers compensation claim on his insurance.
  • 07-07-2019, 03:01 PM
    debodun
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post

    How about carrying the clients' phone numbers with you in case you run into that scenario again.

    Their phone number is on the route list, but doesn't do me any good when I don't have a cell phone.
  • 07-07-2019, 03:23 PM
    Mercy&Grace
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Where was the client while this was happening? I find it hard to believe you do not have a cell phone. You should suggest be provided drivers with a cell phone for these type situations. On the other hand, law,enforcement is better equipped to do welfare checks. Have you had First Aid training? These type of situations come up often when dealing with the elderly.
  • 07-07-2019, 03:29 PM
    jk
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting debodun
    View Post
    Their phone number is on the route list, but doesn't do me any good when I don't have a cell phone.

    You must be the only person in the entire country that doesn’t have a cellphone. Congrats on being a Luddite but in today’s world it’s an odd place to be. You u never know when you might need a phone to call the police or an ambulance. They’re mighty handy things to have around.


    So, the door was unlocked. That would mean the resident was probably home (maybe he was the new flavor of dog food). Did you report the suspicious situation to your supervisor or the police? If not, why not?
  • 07-07-2019, 03:41 PM
    flyingron
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    The company is crocked. Pizza guys have no authority to enter to do welfare checks. If they feel someone may be in danger, this is what the police are for.
  • 07-07-2019, 05:37 PM
    jk
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    The company is crocked. Pizza guys have no authority to enter to do welfare checks. If they feel someone may be in danger, this is what the police are for.

    Pizza guys?

    meals on wheels is not in the same league. There is some contact between mow and the client beyond taking an order. Part of mow is to provide welfare checks. I don’t know what is actually communicated to the client but all of the info available on mow includes the fact they do perform welfare checks along with the food delivery and it sounds like s little bit of chatting as well.
  • 07-08-2019, 05:42 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    That's not part of MOW here. You don't have any authority to trespass just because you're delivering food. If the person doesn't answer, we have other organizations (police, ems) that can do the entry if needed.
  • 07-08-2019, 05:59 AM
    jk
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    That's not part of MOW here. You don't have any authority to trespass just because you're delivering food. If the person doesn't answer, we have other organizations (police, ems) that can do the entry if needed.

    an invitee is not a trespasser, at least as to entry onto the property.

    Entering the home; haven’t worked with mow. Just from all the sites on the Net I find make a big deal that part of their service is well checks. Obviously that needs to be addressed with the clients. Without that, then I would agree entry into the home isn’t allowed.
  • 07-08-2019, 07:06 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    From the MOW site talking about their services.

    Long-term preventative services, including nutrition, socialization, safety checks and connections to community services.
  • 07-08-2019, 11:18 AM
    debodun
    Re: Delivering Food, I Was Attacked by a Dog. Who is in the Wrong
    Today I received this communication from the MOW office:

    We have contacted the client and reinforced the rules of the program most notably in this instance that all pets must be contained at the time of delivery. Please, if the dog is not contained today do not deliver his meal and we will have to take matters from there.

    When I knocked. the dog was right at the door and barking. I made a 180 and did not even open the door and reported it as soon as I got home. The MOW agent said I did thr right thing and they "would look into it".

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    You must be the only person in the entire country that doesn’t have a cellphone. Congrats on being a Luddite

    Yes, I am a Luddite and proud of it. My needs are few and simple. I don't have many things most people have today - a cell phone, a credit or debit card (if people or businesses won't accept a check or cash, I don't deal with them), a laptop or tablet (I use a clunky 7 year old desktop running Windows 7), a digital TV (I have a CRT and had to give in and get a DTA converter for it, though), my car is 17 years old. I just don't buy into all this modern need for the latest electronics.
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