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Florida Move Over Law Violation

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  • 04-20-2019, 05:31 PM
    datura44
    Florida Move Over Law Violation
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Florida

    Traveling southbound on I-95 in right lane. Two police officers are on the shoulder dealing with another car. As I pass them, the rear cop decides to chase me and pull me over. He asked if knew about the "move over law", which I didn't. He then gives me a citation for $139. During the time he had me pulled over, I counted 10 other drivers that did the same thing as I did without changing lanes or slowing down, which I find ironic; yet he didn't chase them.

    See dashcam video below.

    Do I have a case I can argue in court?

    Any advise?

    https://youtu.be/LzH8IazI5eY
  • 04-20-2019, 05:48 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Other drivers not being ticketed is not a defense

    the driver in front of you moved over. What other drivers are you referring to that didn’t move over?
  • 04-20-2019, 05:55 PM
    datura44
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    While I was pulled over, multiple cars were "violating" the same law by passing us while they were in the right lane. I asked the pig why he didn't go after them too. He didn't answer me.


    Oh, I forgot to mention, even if I tried to move over, there was a white truck to my left. So I couldn't move over.
  • 04-20-2019, 06:04 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    How do,you expect the cop to go after other violators while he is dealing with you?

    Here is the pertinent section of the statute

    Quote:

    (b) If an authorized emergency vehicle displaying any visual signals is parked on the roadside, a sanitation vehicle is performing a task related to the provision of sanitation services on the roadside, a utility service vehicle is performing a task related to the provision of utility services on the roadside, or a wrecker displaying amber rotating or flashing lights is performing a recovery or loading on the roadside, the driver of every other vehicle, as soon as it is safe:1. Shall vacate the lane closest to the emergency vehicle, sanitation vehicle, utility service vehicle, or wrecker when driving on an interstate highway or other highway with two or more lanes traveling in the direction of the emergency vehicle, sanitation vehicle, utility service vehicle, or wrecker, except when otherwise directed by a law enforcement officer. If such movement cannot be safely accomplished, the driver shall reduce speed as provided in subparagraph 2.
    2. Shall slow to a speed that is 20 miles per hour less than the posted speed limit when the posted speed limit is 25 miles per hour or greater; or travel at 5 miles per hour when the posted speed limit is 20 miles per hour or less, when driving on a two-lane road, except when otherwise directed by a law enforcement officer.
    its been in place for 17 years. Notice it requires you to reduce your speed to 20 under the posted limit if you can’t move over safely.

    also notice it applies to much more than just police vehicles.
  • 04-20-2019, 06:10 PM
    datura44
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    I did slow down, but I'm not sure if it was 20mph less than the posted limit; I wasn't looking at my speedometer.

    Shortly after he pulled me over, the other cop joined him; so there were two cops behind me while others were violating the same law. Why didn't the second cop go after them too?
  • 04-20-2019, 06:13 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    And based upon your video, due the difference in your speed and the white truck you passed, it is highly probable you had plenty of clear space to move to the adjacent lane. I suspect if you had turned on your turn signal he would have yielded to you and allowed you to pull over. If there wasn’t, you have brakes on your car? You could have slowed so as to be able to pull in behind the white truck

    Quote:

    Quoting datura44
    View Post
    I did slow down, but I'm not sure if it was 20mph less than the posted limit; I wasn't looking at my speedometer.

    Shortly after he pulled me over, the other cop joined him; so there were two cops behind me while others were violating the same law. Why didn't the second cop go after them too?

    Unless everybody else was driving way below the speed limit, you were actually speeding. There was only one vehicle in your entire video going faster than you and that was only until he got caught up in slower traffic, which was presumably moving at least the speed limit. It appears you did slow down, a little bit but less than any of the other traffic,which were in the lanes that allowed them to drive the speed limit.

    btw: most, if not all other states have similar laws requiring you to move over or slow down when there is a cop alongside the road.
  • 04-20-2019, 06:21 PM
    datura44
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    And based upon your video, due the difference in your speed and the white truck you passed, it is highly probable you had plenty of clear space to move to the adjacent lane. I suspect if you had turned on your turn signal he would have yielded to you and allowed you to pull over. If there wasn’t, you have brakes on your car? You could have slowed so as to be able to pull in behind the white truck

    I estimate I slowed down about 10mph based on the video, even though I didn't know about the law. And the white truck's front bumper was adjacent to my rear bumper (I was looking in my mirrors at the time), so no I didn't have space to move over.

    They were safe in their cars during that stop. I think a warning would have been enough, but not a ticket.
  • 04-20-2019, 06:42 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting datura44
    View Post
    I estimate I slowed down about 10mph based on the video, even though I didn't know about the law. And the white truck's front bumper was adjacent to my rear bumper (I was looking in my mirrors at the time), so no I didn't have space to move over.

    They were safe in their cars during that stop. I think a warning would have been enough, but not a ticket.

    you might have slowed down 10 mph but the law requires you to slow 20 mph below the posted limit. Since it appears you were going faster than every vehicle but one, i suspect you were speeding and would have had to slow more than 20 mph to reach the requirement of 20 under the posted limit.

    you can think what you want but you did violate The law and the cop can issue a ticket, and he did. You have no argument to even mitigate your actions.

    It doesn't matter where the cops were.
  • 04-20-2019, 06:54 PM
    datura44
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    I didn't admit to "not slowing to 20 under the limit". I said that I'm not sure how much I slowed because I wasn't looking at my speedometer. It could have been 20mph that I slowed. You are just twisting my words and at this point you are of no help to me.
  • 04-20-2019, 07:12 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    ok, so previously you posted this

    Quote:

    I did slow down, but I'm not sure if it was 20mph less than the posted limit; I wasn't looking at my speedometer.


    yet now you state with certainty you weren’t speeding.

    btw: your speed can be calculated by markers in the video but the fact you were the fasted car on the highway strongly suggests you were speeding. Typical drivers in light to moderate traffic out on a nice day tend to Not drive below the speed limit. Rarely will you find every driver but one driving so far below the speed limit you would gain on them as quickly as you did. You are suggesting that not only was everybody else driving under the speed limit but they were driving at least 10 mph below the speed limit since you claim you slowed about 10 mph

    but you were still gaining on the rest of the traffic.

    i havent had a ticket in at least 20 years as well. It doesn’t give me a free pass to violate the law and not get a ticket when I do violate the law.
  • 04-20-2019, 07:20 PM
    datura44
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    You must have misunderstood what I said jk. Pay attention. I was never speeding above the posted speed limit. I'm just not sure how much I slowed down. Does that make any since to you? It's not hard man.

    Yes, people do tend drive below the speed limit in the left lanes.

    Again you twist my words saying that I "claim" to have slowed to 10 less. Read back, I said estimated based on the video (which I could be totally off).

    Let me say it this way: I did slow down to 20mph under the limit. So, do I have a defense now?
  • 04-20-2019, 09:02 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    you said you didn’t know your speed so you can’t argue you were at least 20 under the limit. If the cop says you weren’t 20 under the limit and you say “well, I don’t know how fast I was going because I didn’t look at my speedometer the entire time”, you will lose. A cop is often trained to determine speed and contrary to chuckles claims, you were not always behind the cop. Once you passed him you were in his direct view and he could judge your Speed.
  • 04-20-2019, 11:20 PM
    RJR
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    44, do you recall in your mind if you did either of these while approaching the police car?

    1. Braked to any degree?

    2. Let up on the gas pedal to any degree?
  • 04-21-2019, 06:37 AM
    bcr229
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Ok I watched the video. OP was on a straight and level stretch of interstate and the strobe lights from the emergency vehicles should have been visible long before he started passing the white pickup on his left. So, instead of passing the pickup on the right he should have backed off and dropped in behind it.

    VA and WV have that law, and it's posted prominently on signs when you enter the states. Drivers have also started moving over for any kind of activity on the shoulder, not just for emergency vehicles. Drivers are usually polite about letting people in the right lane move left during these situations even in heavy traffic.
  • 04-21-2019, 07:17 AM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting RJR
    View Post
    44, do you recall in your mind if you did either of these while approaching the police car?

    1. Braked to any degree?

    2. Let up on the gas pedal to any degree?

    it is determinable by viewing the video op did slow somewhat (again, his speed at any time in the video can be accurately calculated) .

    The fact remains he cannot lawfully testify he slowed to a speed 20 mph below the posted limit as he stated he did not look at his speedometer to determine his speed at any time during this event.

    If it gets into a cop v. Defendant, state wins. That means unless op can impeach cops testimony that op was exceeding posted limit minus 20 and state he was in fact moving at posted limit minus 20 or less, op loses. Op argues he couldn’t move over due to white truck. I strongly suspect the cop will have a different view of the situation but even if op really couldn’t move over, the law obligates him to slow to no more than posted limit minus 20.

    So, possible defenses I see:



    wasnt aware of the law: fails although that and a sympathetic judge and the statement op did slow somewhat might get the op a break on the punishment.

    Cop couldn’t determine ops speed; there are radar that can tag multiple targets. Even without that, there are radar that will tag the fastest vehicle. That combined with a statement from the cop op was the fastest vehicle in radar view defeats claim. Additionally cops in many areas are actually considered to be able to legally and accurately determine speed. In fact, in such areas the radar is actually merely supporting evidence of the cops determination.

    . Chuckles wants to argue cop can’t determine speed in the rear view mirror. That’s likely true but that is also irrelevant. First, cop may have been looking directly at op as he approached and if so, could determine speed. Second, the speed of concern is the speed as he passed the cops. How fast he was going before or after he passed the area the cops were in doesn’t matter. He could be going 100 mph but if he slowed to 20 under before he passed the cops, he complied with the law. The op was obviously in front of the cop that tagged him as op passed the second cop car so the rear view mirror argument is complete bullshit. Of course we don’t know how the cop determined the ops speed so at the moment this argument is little more than a discussion. If op wants to fight the ticket he is able to seek discovery that may be supportive of such a defense. Of course, op cannot honestly state he was at posted limit minus 20 or slower so he really can’t argue the cop was wrong but only that his determination is undependable. That is usually a losing argument. There is a super slim chance there is a defense in there somewhere but unlikely.

    Any other argument by the op or chuckles presented is not a defense but an attempt to gain the sympathy of a judge. While such mitigation may result in a reduced penalty, it is not an actual defense but it is sometimes successful in mitigating the penalties. Op needs to understand the difference between an actual defense and an attempt to mitigate penalties. A court may take the attempt to garner sympathy as an attempt to evade justice or whining if presented as a defense. That can actually backfire on the defendant so due respect and acceptance of the law and presenting mitigating statements as mitigating statements is suggested rather than attempting to present mitigating statements as a defense to the violation.

    ya never know. Judges have been swayed by a person accepting guilt but seeking sympathy along with earnest statements showing due respect for the courts and the law and rewarded them by dismissing the ticket. It’s unlikely but not unheard of.

    My personal two cents is;
    it would cost me more in lost income than the cost of the ticket. Op states he has not had a ticket for at least 20 years so a single ticket should not affect his insurance rates. I have a similarly great driving record. That limits actual costs of the ticket to what he is required to pay to settle the ticket. The smart action, in my personal situation, would be to pay the ticket and move on with life.
  • 04-21-2019, 07:23 AM
    budwad
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    You show the video to the judge. It clearly shows you did not slow down. You were keeping pace with the vehicles in lanes 2 and 3 that presumable were doing the speed limit or above and promptly increased speed after passing the officers. And if you watch the tree line leaving the frame on the right side of the video, you can see that you may have applied your break at 0:15 for a very brief moment. Hardly enough to reduce your speed.

    My take is that you weren't paying attention. Perhaps your mind on matters other than driving. You reacted too late to slow down and said f*** it.

    If you come to a forum to hear only what you want to hear, it's a waste of your time and ours.
  • 04-21-2019, 07:39 AM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    You show the video to the judge. It clearly shows you did not slow down. You were keeping pace with the vehicles in lanes 2 and 3 that presumable were doing the speed limit or above and promptly increased speed after passing the officers. And if you watch the tree line leaving the frame on the right side of the video, you can see that you may have applied your break at 0:15 for a very brief moment. Hardly enough to reduce your speed.

    My take is that you weren't paying attention. Perhaps your mind on matters other than driving. You reacted too late to slow down and said f*** it.

    If you come to a forum to hear only what you want to hear, it's a waste of your time and ours.

    Actually it shows he did slow. I’m not going to calculate it to determine the actual speeds but the video does prove he did slow to some extent
  • 04-21-2019, 07:43 AM
    budwad
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Obviously not enough and not in time.
  • 04-21-2019, 01:42 PM
    RJR
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Maybe, it's just my depth perception, but I can't see where he slowed at all?
  • 04-21-2019, 02:20 PM
    bcr229
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting RJR
    View Post
    Maybe, it's just my depth perception, but I can't see where he slowed at all?

    Count the dashed lines that divide the lanes and say the numbers out loud (I had to restart every 10). Toward the end of the video it's obvious that he slowed down.
  • 04-21-2019, 03:37 PM
    RJR
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting bcr229
    View Post
    Count the dashed lines that divide the lanes and say the numbers out loud (I had to restart every 10). Toward the end of the video it's obvious that he slowed down.

    I slowed the video to 1/4 speed, still can't determine if he slowed or not, but don't count on my perception, with my swiftness I need 20 seconds to count to 10! :p
  • 04-21-2019, 04:28 PM
    jk
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    Quote:

    Quoting RJR
    View Post
    I slowed the video to 1/4 speed, still can't determine if he slowed or not, but don't count on my perception, with my swiftness I need 20 seconds to count to 10! :p

    he slowed down noticeably twice that I can discern: once about 9 seconds into the video and the second time as he passes the first cop car.
  • 04-23-2019, 01:51 PM
    souperdave
    Re: Florida Move Over Law
    A couple of things....you did slow down, but it appears that it was simply taking your foot off the gas. Not much of a speed drop. However, watching the body line on your hood in relation to alignment with to the solid white shoulder delineator (that's painted stripe chuckles) you fail to even make an attempt to ease left one iota. That's the part that got ya right there.

    I hafta agree with jk on this one.

    One thing a video shows, especially when moving at speed, is that the human eye sees a lot further and discerns more at distance. You had approx 400-500yds, it would appear, from the time the strobes came into view to the time you passed the scene.

    Again, watch the alignment of the body contour line on the right side of the hood. You did not move over, at all, even though if the truck in lane 2 was still next to you, you'd still given them a couple feet of so.
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