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"Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign" Citation

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  • 10-31-2018, 01:55 PM
    jacobf0900
    "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign" Citation
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Pennsylvania

    On my way home from school, I approached a stop sign that is commonly rolled through since it's at the bottom of a hill and traffic is usually only going one way especially after school lets out. I got to the stop sign, stopped behind the car that was currently at the sign - which made a rolling stop - then to my knowledge stopped at the sign, looked both ways, then made a right turn since there was no traffic coming the other way. I didn't see a cop car parked at all.

    After the turn I saw police lights behind me and I wasn't sure if he was pulling me over since I didn't think I had made any infraction of the traffic laws. I continued past two other stop signs, of which are close to one another since they are at the entrances to the middle school, then I pulled over once I was past the no parking zone signs. The officer came up to my vehicle and informed me I didn't stop completely at the first stop sign. I didn't argue with him since I knew it wouldn't be worth it and handed over my license and registration. He processed the ticket and informed me that he could not give me a warning since he's on a special detail at the school for a "Click it or Ticket" detail. I already have 3 points on my license from a previous speeding ticket about 8 months ago. Because of this, I still have a Junior driver's license even though I'm 18. This ticket would give me another 3 points that would cause me to have my license suspended for 90 days. I cannot afford to lose my license as driving is my only available method of transportation to and from work. I cannot walk since it is illegal to walk down the highway where my workplace is located.

    The officer recommended I request a hearing for the ticket so he can work with me so that I will be prevented from losing my license. My question is what are the legalities of the click it or ticket detail he was on, and how can I fight this case when the only witnesses are myself and the officer. Like I said before, to my knowledge I came to a complete stop and I know I did not pull out in front of any oncoming traffic.
  • 10-31-2018, 02:59 PM
    pg1067
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting jacobf0900
    View Post
    what are the legalities of the click it or ticket detail he was on

    Not really sure what you're asking here. "Click it or ticket" typically refers to violations of the mandatory seat belt law, but that doesn't mean that an officer looking for seat belt violations can't issue tickets for other infractions.

    Quote:

    Quoting jacobf0900
    View Post
    how can I fight this case when the only witnesses are myself and the officer.

    Nothing in your post suggests you have any basis to fight the ticket. Your statement that you stopped "to [your] knowledge" suggests some degree of uncertainty. You certainly can testify that you stopped. The officer can testify that you didn't. The court will then decide who is more credible. What's the problem with following the officer's suggest that you "request a hearing for the ticket so he can work with [you] so that [you] will be prevented from losing [your] license"?
  • 10-31-2018, 03:05 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    The officer recommended I request a hearing for the ticket so he can work with me
    Pleading not guilty is a good idea. You might get a plea bargain or deferred adjudication.

    Expecting the officer to "work with you" is ludicrous.

    All he will do in court is testify that you didn't stop. That's all he is likely to be allowed to do in court.

    If your license means so much to you, you would be well advised to hire a traffic attorney.

    Or resign yourself to taking Ubers or public transportation back and forth to work.
  • 10-31-2018, 08:15 PM
    flyingron
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Deferred adjudication in PA? Surely you jest. There's ARD but you won't get it for a traffic citation.
    A "plea bargain" isn't going to happen either.
  • 11-02-2018, 07:17 PM
    Who'sThatGuy
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    You say that you stopped. The officer says you didn't. The judge can always ask to see the video from the camera of the police cruiser to confirm the officers testimony.
  • 11-02-2018, 07:25 PM
    flyingron
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting Who'sThatGuy
    View Post
    You say that you stopped. The officer says you didn't. The judge can always ask to see the video from the camera of the police cruiser to confirm the officers testimony.

    Say what? The judge isn't in the position of requesting evidence or confronting anyone. If the defendant thinks the camera evidence (if such actually exists, unlikely it does in this case), he's the one who needs to request it.
  • 11-02-2018, 07:44 PM
    Who'sThatGuy
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Say what? The judge isn't in the position of requesting evidence or confronting anyone. If the defendant thinks the camera evidence (if such actually exists, unlikely it does in this case), he's the one who needs to request it.

    I was just basically letting OP know that most likely there is a video recording of the whole incident.
  • 11-07-2018, 06:17 PM
    acai
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    All cops are corrupt so the best you can do is install a dash cam on your vehicle since you'll always lose the he-said-she-said battle. You can buy a good one with 1 year warranty for $30 on Amazon.

    Recently, I came upon a dimly lit intersection in a rundown town at Midnight and did the California roll thinking no one would know. But something told me to do a full stop just in case. So I proceeded to stop again for 4 full seconds before driving away. Sure enough, a cop turns on his sirens and pulls me over. He tells me what I already know which is I nearly got caught breaking the law but didn't. So why did you pull me over?????? Anyways the idiot cop let me go after telling me this. Had the corrupt donut eater given me a citation, I would have fought it and won since I had a dash cam.
  • 11-08-2018, 06:10 AM
    free9man
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting acai
    View Post
    Recently, I came upon a dimly lit intersection in a rundown town at Midnight and did the California roll thinking no one would know. But something told me to do a full stop just in case. So I proceeded to stop again for 4 full seconds before driving away. .

    If you had already done the California stop and rolled the sign/light, the second stop doesn't save your bacon. You had already broken the law.
  • 11-08-2018, 07:53 AM
    flyingron
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting free9man
    View Post
    If you had already done the California stop and rolled the sign/light, the second stop doesn't save your bacon. You had already broken the law.

    Well, he'd be OK as long as he made the full stop before the line. I suspect he meant to say he intended to roll the stop but thought better of it before he entered the intersection.
  • 11-08-2018, 08:06 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Well, he'd be OK as long as he made the full stop before the line. I suspect he meant to say he intended to roll the stop but thought better of it before he entered the intersection.

    That's not the vibe I got. I don't know how one could have already done a "California stop" and then do a second full stop before the line.
  • 11-08-2018, 07:36 PM
    zeljo
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    I'm in California, and you're in Pennsylvania, but I guess some things are the same. That line from the officer that he "can't" give you a warning is utter bullshit. His reason why he "can't" doesn't matter. This is meant to reduce chances of confrontation and to get you to co-operate, sign the ticket, or whatever he needs you to do to send him on his merry way. "Working with you" crap means pretty much the same thing: "if you don;'t like it, say it to the judge."
    I found this page wit the basic information on fighting PA traffic tickets. Look it over. But not for too long; it appears you only have 10 days to plead not guilty, which is what you want to do.
    If this gets to court trial, at some point you will get to cross-examine the cop; at that time, you will want to know where exactly he was when he observed you failing to stop. If he was behind you, he couldn't see for sure if you stopped or not, especially if you "almost" stopped. Pretty much the same if he was in front of you. If he was perpendicular to you, you have a problem. Whatever the case, when you state YOUR case, don't say I stopped "to my knowledge." If you believe you stopped, say "I stopped."

    I presume you were cited with 3323(b)? Where exactly? Post a Google maps link, or otherwise be specific.
  • 11-08-2018, 07:57 PM
    Who'sThatGuy
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting zeljo
    View Post
    If this gets to court trial, at some point you will get to cross-examine the cop; at that time, you will want to know where exactly he was when he observed you failing to stop. If he was behind you, he couldn't see for sure if you stopped or not, especially if you "almost" stopped. Pretty much the same if he was in front of you. If he was perpendicular to you, you have a problem. Whatever the case, when you state YOUR case, don't say I stopped "to my knowledge." If you believe you stopped, say "I stopped."

    You have it all wrong here. If the officer was in front of, or behind, the OP is basically screwed. If the officer was perpendicular to, and there was a bush, tree, retaining wall or any other thing blocking the officers view, OP can fight as one of those objects can block the officers view of OP coming to a complete stop before proceeding through the stop sign.
  • 11-09-2018, 09:52 AM
    pg1067
    Re: "Failed to Stop at a Stop Sign"
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Well, he'd be OK as long as he made the full stop before the line. I suspect he meant to say he intended to roll the stop but thought better of it before he entered the intersection.

    Giving the benefit of the doubt to a person who claims "All cops are corrupt" seems ill-advised.
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