How to Remove a Deceased Person from a Deed
My question involves real estate located in the State of: Wisconsin
We are/were ALL and have always been residents of Indiana.
This concerns getting my late father's name off a piece of property that has his name, my mother's name and my name on it.
The property is a fishing shack on 2 1/2 acres in the woods of NW Wisconsin.
It has a total tax assessed value of $15,000.
My father died in 1997 with a Will Recorded and Probated in Indiana, that passed everything he owned to my mother.
The will states my mother gets it "...absolutely and in fee simple".
Probate was completed and closed in 1998.
In 1998, my mother had our attorney create a Quitclaim Deed that made she and I "JOINT TENANTS WITH RIGHTS OF SURVIVORSHIP".
It was filed in the county of the property in Wisconsin in 1998.
My mother passed in 2008.
I want to just keep things simply by STARTING with getting my late father's name off the property.
Can I simply just provide them with an official copy of his Death Certificate at the Recorder's Office up there?
Or will I have to get all the Final results of Indiana Probate?
Or what?
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
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Quoting
mrshyvley
In 1998, my mother had our attorney create a Quitclaim Deed that made she and I "JOINT TENANTS WITH RIGHTS OF SURVIVORSHIP". It was filed in the county of the property in Wisconsin in 1998.
If that was done, why does your father's name still show on the property?
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
You should talk to the attorney handling (mother's) probate. If the father's probate had been done properly, his name should have been off back then.
If the father and mother held the property with survivorship right, mother could have filed the death certificate (and the will and probate would have not applied to the property). If they didn't hold ownership, the probate process should have had the estate prepare an appropriate deed to mother. Filing a death certificate now isn't going to affect any of this.
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
Quote:
Quoting
flyingron
You should talk to the attorney handling (mother's) probate. If the father's probate had been done properly, his name should have been off back then.
If the father and mother held the property with survivorship right, mother could have filed the death certificate (and the will and probate would have not applied to the property). If they didn't hold ownership, the probate process should have had the estate prepare an appropriate deed to mother. Filing a death certificate now isn't going to affect any of this.
The attorney who handled my late mother's estate has retired, his law office closed and he moved out of town.
I've just assumed my late father is still listed as an owner, because the tax statement still has his name on it.
Would the final probate documents have info on whether this property was accounted for?
Should I find under what type of Deed my mother and father owned this property?
Would the Government Building in Wisconsin tell me if I called them?
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
The TAX statement means SQUAT. You need someone to go over the recorded land records. A title company will be able to do that, though the attorney handling mom's probate may be able to have the research done as well.
The estate should have either filed the death certificate if the property was a survivorship issue or deeded it otherwise.
Understand that unlike a car there is no one "title" for the property. Each act that transfers ownerships (deeds, or death recording in the case of survivorship rights), is just one step in the chain.
Most government employees are not legally allowed ot just give you answers as they are not attorneys and can't play that role.
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
NEW DEVELOPMENT
I'M SORRY this is long, but it's necessary.
I did some digging through some old deeds that I haven't seen in 20+ years that I had forgotten about that give me a path to title through a "last man standing" arrangement.
A title search would show this to be the "last man standing" agreement my late mother told me they all agreed to.
Let me elaborate...
Up to 1947 this property was owned by two couples.
1. Uncle and Aunt #1 (had no children)
2. Uncle and Aunt #2 (had one son)
In 1947, my mother and father were brought in.
1. Uncle and Aunt #1 made a Quitclaim Deed as joint tenants with rights of survivorship with my mother and father.
2. Uncle and Autn #2 made a Quitclaim Deed as joint tenants with rights of survivorship with my mother and father.
Uncle and Aunt #1 (had no children) were both dead by the mid 1970's
This left Uncle and Aunt #2 and my mother and father as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
==========
Uncle and Aunt #2 died in late 1996 and 1994 respectively.
This left my late mother and father as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
==========
My late father passed in 1997, leaving my late mother as the sole owner of the property.
Just to be on the safe side, the one son and wife of Uncle and Aunt #2 recorded a Quitclaim Deed on the property.
Then with my late mother as sole owner, she did a Quitclaim Deed with me IN 1998 as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
My late mother passed in 2008, leaving me as sole owner.
BUT I FIND no evidence that the Indiana attorney who handled my father's estate in 1997 ever informed the county in Wisconsin where the Quitclaim Deeds are that my father died.
AND I find no evience that this same attorney who handled my mother's estate in 2008 ever informed the county in Wisconsin where the Quitclaim Deeds are that my mother died.
IN LIGHT of this new info chain of Quitclaim Deeds with joint tenants with rights of survivorship that lead to me, IS IT possible that my recording official Death Certificates with the county in Wisconsin of my father and mother that this could clear this up?
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
The problem is that in Wisconsin, it very much matters when things are recorded versus when they were signed. I'd hesitate to say that all you need to do is record a death certificate way after the fact. A title company can verify what the legal ownership is, at least to the point if you buy their insurance as to what they say, you'll be protected. However, if the fact that mom didn't make sure her interest received through survivorship was recorded properly, her quit claim to you may have only transferred her share. Deeds can't give up property interest you don't have.
In the worst case, you can bring a quiet title action to fix this (provided there's nobody else really wanting to contest this).
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
Quote:
Quoting
flyingron
The problem is that in Wisconsin, it very much matters when things are recorded versus when they were signed. I'd hesitate to say that all you need to do is record a death certificate way after the fact. A title company can verify what the legal ownership is, at least to the point if you buy their insurance as to what they say, you'll be protected. However, if the fact that mom didn't make sure her interest received through survivorship was recorded properly, her quit claim to you may have only transferred her share. Deeds can't give up property interest you don't have.
In the worst case, you can bring a quiet title action to fix this (provided there's nobody else really wanting to contest this).
OK.
To clarify things.
My mom's Quitclaim Deed bringing me in, it was actually created and signed in January 1998 and recorded in June of 1998 when I went up there.
My dad died in March of 1997.
So dad had been dead for over 10 months when the Quitclaim Deed bringing me in was actually created and signed.
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
I see an even greater problem with the joint tenancies attempted to be created in 1947. At that time the four unities were required when creating a joint tenancy. That would preclude the ability for a current owner to simply execute a quit claim deed to themselves and others and create a joint tenancy.
In addition, since there were two deeds, there can be no joint tenancy between the two groups. If the joint tenancy within each group is upheld it may be moot since your parents were the survivor of each separate group.
I suggest you employ the services of a title company or attorney who practices in real estate (either being familiar with Wisconsin law on the matter) to determine the condition of the title today
Re: Remove Deceased Person from Deed
Again, you can't deed something which is not yours. Quit claims aren't some magic instrument, they just say "I give, without representation, my interest to you."