Police Entry vs. Property Owners' Rights
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cdwjava
As I suggested, if you want to keep out unwanted visitors - including unwanted police officers, lock the door.
Disappointed. This is the second time you've suggested I need a lock to secure the privacy of my person, places, and things..................from the Police no less, the very same Officers that are sworn " to respect the Constitutional rights of all men to liberty, equality and justice."
If an open door is an accepted exigency for warrant less entry......than failing to answer a locked door would also be an exigent circumstance justifying knocking the door down. It's a slippery slope my friend. And the door lock does me no good when it is those who took the "Protect and Serve" Oath, who struggle with the difference between protection and intrusion.
Regardless of whether the reason for her entry was exigencies to the warrant requirement, or community care taking and concern for my well being(you offered both); The fact that she didn't pause long enough at the door for me to meet her inquiry at the door means she had zero "respect" for the Constitutional Rights of any rightful occupants who may be inside. Most Case Law on entry without warrant stresses that the Rights of the occupants be very carefully weighed against the societal benefits that may be gained.
If you can't wait 3-5 seconds for me to answer my door in person at my door; I have a better understanding why Police and community relationships seem to be struggling more so these days.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
So again, are we to assume there is a lawsuit filed in this?
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
And When I asked if BOR was still around, I was asking about a forum member who goes by that handle. I know full well the Bill of Rights is still in existence(albeit under constant attack). BOR was very well versed in the Bill of Rights, with an encyclopedic recall of relevant case Law and precedence about a whole host of issues covered in the BOR.
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free9man
So again, are we to assume there is a lawsuit filed in this?
As I stated, our Attorney will not finalize a course of action until he has received and reviewed the Discovery materials. But it is completely possible.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE
As I stated, our Attorney will not finalize a course of action until he has received and reviewed the Discovery materials. But it is completely possible.
Last time I checked, motions in general require an underlying legal action.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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free9man
Last time I checked, motions in general require an underlying legal action.
A civil Lawsuit has not been filed at this point. I can only tell you that I was in my Attorneys office when him and the City Attorney agreed to an open Docket at 2 p.m. to file the paperwork to initiate the exchange of information.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE
And When I asked if BOR was still around, I was asking about a forum member who goes by that handle. I know full well the Bill of Rights is still in existence(albeit under constant attack). BOR was very well versed in the Bill of Rights, with an encyclopedic recall of relevant case Law and precedence about a whole host of issues covered in the BOR.
BOR was knowledgeable about Bill of Rights issues, and he contributed well to those discussions, but he had what appeared to be some form of personal breakdown or crisis and hasn't been around for a long time.
But you're getting correct information here, whether or not you like what you're hearing.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
Hi Mr. K, and good day.
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Mr. Knowitall
BOR was knowledgeable about Bill of Rights issues, and he contributed well to those discussions, but he had what appeared to be some form of personal breakdown or crisis and hasn't been around for a long time.
Saddening, but thanks for the info.
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Mr. Knowitall
But you're getting correct information here, whether or not you like what you're hearing.
Clearly debatable MR. K. Saying her exigent circumstances would uphold Judicial scrutiny; without knowing precisely what those exigencies were in the words of the Officer. Well, that is forming an opinion knowingly absent of important information, that's not a line of thought based on logic and reasonableness. Even Carl conceded this in one of his later posts.
"Ultimately, the legal test would be if the entry was "objectively reasonable" based upon the officer's observations and the facts, an evaluation we cannot make in its entirety since we do not know what the officer had observed or believed. Nothing presented in your narrative negates an exigency to make entry, but neither can we entirely justify it based upon what you observed".
My Attorney just called( Yes during the lunch hour). The City Attorney extended an invitation from the Chief of Police for a mediated meeting prior to us filing a formal complaint. We readily accepted in hopes of reaching an amicable resolution to the situation. My understanding is the Chairwoman of the PCRB will mediate. Unclear to me at this point whether the Officer will be attending or not.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
It surprises me that you are willing to spend a couple thousand dollars or more merely for an apology ... What, exactly, does an "amicable resolution" look like to you?
The officer will not likely be in attendance at any such meeting.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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cdwjava
It surprises me that you are willing to spend a couple thousand dollars or more merely for an apology
It surprises me more people wouldn't be willing to do so.
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cdwjava
... What, exactly, does an "amicable resolution" look like to you?
One where I receive a reasonable explanation as to why she would be authorized to be in my private space in the first place. Or how it's even possible for it not to be against Department Policy for her to do so without; Announcing she was a Law Enforcement Officer, or announcing entry prior to entry and allowing the occupant(s) reasonable opportunity to respond to that inquiry.
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cdwjava
The officer will not likely be in attendance at any such meeting.
She wasn't
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE,
Would you have felt differently about it had you been laying there bleeding from a hold up. Or if she had stopped someone from burglarizing your building?
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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PayrolGuy
BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE,
Would you have felt differently about it had you been laying there bleeding from a hold up. Or if she had stopped someone from burglarizing your building?
Now PayrolGuy, let's not actually be reasonable...(I too agree that this is major overkill - in a way makes me wonder what this person is hiding from..... or if they are just a "right fighter")
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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PayrolGuy
BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE,
Would you have felt differently about it had you been laying there bleeding from a hold up. Or if she had stopped someone from burglarizing your building?
Would you feel different if I was having sex with my wife? Or masturbating? Or any number of other things that are completely legal, though you may want to keep them private. Those private things being at least as likely if not more so than the hypothetical situation you suggested.
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hr for me
Now PayrolGuy, let's not actually be reasonable...
You Weren't.
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hr for me
(I too agree that this is major overkill - in a way makes me wonder what this person is hiding from
Hiding? I don't even close and lock my doors some times. Weren't you reading along?
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hr for me
..... or if they are just a "right fighter")
And the negative connotation here. That you would belittle and show prejudice against someone simply because of their; Interest, Knowledge, Care, Concern, and Protection of their rights. Means you don't meet the reasonable standard in my opinion.
It doesn't matter whether or not she stumbles upon my Authentic "replica" Native American Headdress made from Authentic "replica" Eagle Feathers.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
If I were doing either of those things in a commercial building at night I wouldn't have left my truck running outside and the door unlocked and if I did I would have been embarrassed I certainly wouldn't be upset at the cop who was simply trying to protect my property.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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PayrolGuy
If I were doing either of those things in a commercial building at night I wouldn't have left my truck running outside and the door unlocked and if I did I would have been embarrassed I certainly wouldn't be upset at the cop who was simply trying to protect my property.
Night? So you didn't read along either?
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
Sunday afternoon, night might as well be the same thing re a commercial building as yo describe. I read all of your post when you posted it 2 days ago.
You never did answer my original question.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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PayrolGuy
Sunday afternoon, night might as well be the same thing re a commercial building as yo describe. I read all of your post when you posted it 2 days ago.
You never did answer my original question.
I will. Just a moment and I'll find it.
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PayrolGuy
BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE,
Would you have felt differently about it had you been laying there bleeding from a hold up. Or if she had stopped someone from burglarizing your building?
Absolutely. However her waiting at the doorway long enough for her inquiry to be answered at the door, in no way would have diminished her ability to do either of these things.
Response?
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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cbg
From your description it would appear that she did call out, didn't hear an answer, and approached to make sure you WEREN'T lying bleeding on the floor, or that the door hadn't been left open and a truck running by a burglar.
If you could barely hear her "hello", who's to say that she heard whatever answer you may have made? (I'm not going back four pages to find out if you did or not).
In my view, you're the one who's being totally unreasonable, Blue.
Thanks CBG, I assume it was you who cleaned up the thread.
The Officer was placed on Administrative leave pending the completion of their internal investigation for her "alleged" violation of multiple Departmental Policies. I was not provided specific information as to what those policies were (at least in a formal capacity) as it would infringe her Due Process in that review process.
We did review and discuss several minutes of video(ours) at the meeting. The video was stopped at multiple points and we discussed Departmental Policy, and what "should" be happening. So in an informal capacity I have an idea what those policies were.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
Not me. I'm not a mod on this board.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
Placed on admin leave? For what you describe?
I call BS on that one. Either you are giving us a line here, or you are being fed a line. Or, there is a lot of info missing.
Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space
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cdwjava
Placed on admin leave? For what you describe?
I call BS on that one. Either you are giving us a line here, or you are being fed a line. Or, there is a lot of info missing.
Call what you will. While I did not see her incident report personally, My understanding is she specifically stated she never stepped foot in my space in that report. There are multiple camera angles from multiple tenants that show otherwise. Since she likely completed that report AFTER I had spoke to one Sergeant on the phone, and another at the Department in person...........I am baffled.
No lines being fed here. As for missing info, there is plenty of he said/she said and stuff based on speculation that I have not included in the thread. Primarily everything I did include in thread was from first hand knowledge or I received through formal channels.
Now if you are asking me to speculate on what some of those specific policy violations were.......I will. But I don't think you are asking for that.