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Cancellation of Awarded Comp Dollars Despite Prior Assurances

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  • 05-13-2018, 12:01 AM
    Reeves Eason II
    Cancellation of Awarded Comp Dollars Despite Prior Assurances
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: NV

    A casino sportsbook voided $1,000 worth of my awarded comp dollars (used for casino hotel, food, etc.).'
    The rule had always been "Make a bet and your dollars are renewed for 14 months".

    The casino after years of the above oral agreement with customers put up a sign inside the sportsbook for a month stating that the dollars will expire at the end of the month.
    I did not enter the Casino during that period of time.

    My appeal to the Gaming Control Board was denied due to:

    1) "The Casino had given notice."

    My argument - They gave notice to customers who entered the sportsbook during a 1 month period and noted the sign.
    Not a valid notification.
    Although they have my phone number for calling or texting, my address for snail mail and my email address, they only used the sign inside the premises.

    2) Their rules state "The...Casino reserves the right to change or cancel the program or its official rules and regulations, including the revision of policies, rewards and benefits, at any time and without notice".

    What is the legality of those 2 excuses?

    I have the right to Petition the Gaming Control Board for Reconsideration, wnich I will be doing.
  • 05-13-2018, 05:46 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Yep, these terms are pretty much standard for comp programs at the casinos. They're free to change them at any time without notice. Any notice given is gravy.

    The NGCB doesn't much involve themselves in comp programs other than to make sure intoxicated people aren't served free drinks and that nobody directly affiliated with the casino is receiving comps as a way of getting around other restrictions.
  • 05-13-2018, 08:41 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Quote:

    Quoting Reeves Eason II
    View Post
    What is the legality of those 2 excuses?

    Legal
    Quote:

    Quoting Reeves Eason II
    View Post
    I have the right to Petition the Gaming Control Board for Reconsideration, wnich I will be doing.

    You'll get the same answers.
  • 05-13-2018, 05:42 PM
    Reeves Eason II
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Thank you for the feedback.

    With all due respect, this is what I'm perceiving (as a non-lawyer):

    Common law it appears states that the concept of fairness and reasonableness are foundations of law or of contracts.

    I read this in an article:

    "Terms Change at Any Time - On Line or Off
    Contracts that can change at any time, whether online or offline, are not contracts at all but illusory offerings that have no specificity worthy of meeting the good faith terms to be contracts.

    If contract has no meaning and doesn't fulfill legal qualifications to be a contract, it creates the appearance of a contract but denies its own purpose for existence - to be bound."




    Some cases which seem to back that up:

    "On April 15, 2009, a Texas federal district court held that an arbitration provision in Blockbuster’s online terms of service was “illusory” and unenforceable because Blockbuster had reserved the right to change the terms of service at any time."

    https://www.jdsupra.com/post/documen...c-0b448bb1898a
    ___________________

    https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archive...ircuit_s_1.htm
    (Ninth Circuit Strikes Down Contract Amendment Without Notice–Douglas v. Talk America

    "Even if Douglas had visited the website, he would have had no reason to look at the contract posted there," said the judgment, from Judges Kozinski, Gould and Callahan. "Parties to a contract have no obligation to check the terms on a periodic basis to learn whether they have been changed by the other side. Indeed, a party can’t unilaterally change the terms of a contract; it must obtain the other party’s consent before doing so."

    "This is because a revised contract is merely an offer and does not bind the parties until it is accepted," said the ruling.
    ___________
    From "Online Contracts: We May Modify These Terms at Any Time, Right?"

    "Traditional contract doctrine clearly forbids the unilateral modification of contracts and treats a proposed modification as an offer that is not binding until accepted. Although state contract law may vary, there generally are three requirements in traditional contract law for modifying contracts. First, the offeree must have proper notice of the proposed modification. It is axiomatic that no offer can be accepted unless the offeree knows that the offer has been made. In addition, the offeree must manifest assent to the proposed modification in some manner, either explicitly or implicitly. Last, in order for a modification to be enforceable, it must be supported by consideration, or, in the case of contracts governed by Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code, it must be entered into in good faith. See U.C.C. § 2-209 cmt. 2."

    " For example, in one case where a bank attempted to modify credit card terms by adding an arbitration procedure where one was not already part of the contract terms, the court found that the offeree did not receive proper notice of the modification because the proposed change was printed on an insert with the monthly bill and nothing otherwise called the change to anyone’s attention. [Even worse, "notifying" by putting a sign in the sportsbook rather than attempting personal notification] Badie v. Bank of America, 67 Cal. App. 4th 779 (Cal. Ct. App. 1998). Other companies have found out the hard way that simply providing a complete set of the proposed revised terms, without any indication as to which terms had been changed, was not sufficient notice. DIRECTV, Inc. v. Mattingly, 829 A.2d 626 (Md. 2003)."

    https://www.americanbar.org/publicat...ringiello.html

    PS - I am aware that the NGCB has a history of siding with the casinos, often unreasonably, and that casinos basically do whatever they want to their customers and almost always get away with it.
    But that is a different issue than "do I have a case?", i.e., a legal justification (regardless of the unfairness of the eventual proceeding).
  • 05-13-2018, 06:01 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    You asked for opinions, you got them, you didn't like them so now you are arguing why WE are wrong?

    It's not us that you have to convince.

    Since you have all that answers that apparently convince you that you are in the right, go ahead and sue the casino sportsbook for your $1000 in small claims court, quote all that stuff to the judge and come back and let us know how it turns out.
  • 05-13-2018, 06:18 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Cancellation of Awarded Comp Dollars Despite Prior Assurances
    As a typical element of this sort of contract, you also agree that the "comp dollars" have no cash value and are not redeemable for cash. When you participate in a program with terms like those, you handicap yourself if you want to later argue that the value of the "comp dollars" is greater than $0.
  • 05-13-2018, 07:53 PM
    Reeves Eason II
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    You asked for opinions, you got them, you didn't like them so now you are arguing why WE are wrong?

    It's not us that you have to convince.

    Since you have all that answers that apparently convince you that you are in the right, go ahead and sue the casino sportsbook for your $1000 in small claims court, quote all that stuff to the judge and come back and let us know how it turns out.

    I didn't mean to offend you.
    I appreciate all of the feedback here.


    I'm sure Small Claims would deny my case on the grounds that the NGCB denied it.


    I'd rather take it to the NGCB Appeal Hearing if my petition is granted and see how that goes.
  • 05-13-2018, 08:32 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Quote:

    Quoting Reeves Eason II
    View Post
    I didn't mean to offend you.

    Not offended. Trust me on that.
  • 05-13-2018, 08:50 PM
    jk
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    I’m curious; what consideration did you provide to have been awarded the comp benefits? In other words; how does this rise to the level of a contract?

    prior to this recent change what was the written rule regarding cancellation of the comp dollars? In fact, were there any written rules regarding the comp dollars?

    You state there was an oral agreement any betting would cause the comp money to be valid for 14 months. Who provided you with that oral agreement?
  • 05-13-2018, 09:17 PM
    Reeves Eason II
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I’m curious; what consideration did you provide to have been awarded the comp benefits? In other words; how does this rise to the level of a contract?

    prior to this recent change what was the written rule regarding cancellation of the comp dollars? In fact, were there any written rules regarding the comp dollars?

    You state there was an oral agreement any betting would cause the comp money to be valid for 14 months. Who provided you with that oral agreement?



    "...what consideration did you provide to have been awarded the comp benefits?..."

    I made (purchased) bets at the sportsbook. X amount of dollars bet = Y amount of comp dollars.


    "prior to this recent change what was the written rule regarding cancellation of the comp dollars? In fact, were there any written rules regarding the comp dollars?"

    There was never anything in print - the sportsbook was - until March 2018 - not a part of the Players Club.

    "You state there was an oral agreement any betting would cause the comp money to be valid for 14 months. Who provided you with that oral agreement?"

    Sportsbook managers and supervisors.
    Borne out by the fact that indeed my comp dollars were annually renewed for years.
    And that comp dollars were being awarded at the orally stated rate.

    The $1000 in earned comp dollars was obtained prior to May 2015, and kept being renewed until they were deleted after December 2017, as described in the OP.

    Comp dollars earned after May 2015 were referred to as "new points" or "new comp dollars" as a new count began at that time, and customers were told that first the "old points" would be used up and when they were gone the "new points" would then be used.

    And that both were still continually renewable under the original (oral) terms of "making a bet renews them for 14 months".
    That was true until January 1st, 2018, as described in the OP.
  • 05-15-2018, 05:26 PM
    jk
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    An oral contract can be enforceable, if you can prove the details and that the other party had agree to the contract as well. Past actions can be used to support your claim of the details of the agreement.



    Given you speak of two different entities (the sports book and rhe Players Club). If your comp dollars were through this sports book, how are they now controlled by this Players Club?
  • 05-17-2018, 10:00 PM
    Reeves Eason II
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    An oral contract can be enforceable, if you can prove the details and that the other party had agree to the contract as well. Past actions can be used to support your claim of the details of the agreement.



    Given you speak of two different entities (the sports book and rhe Players Club). If your comp dollars were through this sports book, how are they now controlled by this Players Club?

    The Sportsbook was always separate from the Players Club (which dealt with comp dollars earned thru everything but the sportsbook such as video poker/slots/table games).

    In May 2015 the Sportsbook began requiring bettors to have a Players Club card and swipe it as a means of ID and to make it easy for them to track $$ bet at the windows.
    (Prior to this, a manager would be summoned if one made a large bet and that person used to come out with a pad and make notes to track the $$ bet during their 24 hour day).

    So my old comp dollars which they cancelled in January 2018 were the dollars pre-May 2015.
    I (and all others) was told that first the old points would be used and after they were used up the new (post May 2015 dollars) would be used.

    However, the Sportsbook was still not a part of the Players Club.
    The Players Club could not see how many comp dollars were in a Sportsbook account.
    To use the Sbook comp dollars it was necessary to go to the window in the Sbook. The Players Club could not answer any questions about the Sbook because they knew nothing about it.

    Beginning March 2018 the Sbook is now incorporated into the Players Club, post March 2018 comp dollars earned at the Sbook can now be seen and accessed using a Players Club card for the 1st time.

    My situation is with the Sbook and not the Players Club.

    Incidentally, now the comp dollars earned from May 2015 to March 2018 (which were the "new" points) are being cancelled by the Sbook in September 2018.

    Note the Sbook is giving more than 6 months "notice" rather than the alleged one month notice they gave in December 2017 for eliminating the pre May 2015 points.

    However the Sbook is again acting in bad faith - I was given oral notice of this by a Sbook manager when I found out that my old points were gone.

    The Sbook is again making no personal notification (to date) even though they have over half a year to do so.
    And as of 5 days ago there was not a single sign or flyer in the Sbook stating this new situation.
  • 05-18-2018, 12:47 PM
    jk
    Re: Questioning Legality Of: 1) Notifying; 2) Right to Change/Cancel Terms at Any Tim
    So how would you prove you were even due comp points/dollars at all if nothing is written?

    Unless you can argue your points were awarded under a contract, you’ll have a hard time arguing the sports book folks had any obligation to ever redeem them. Then, to argue the notice is not enforceable you would have to prove that an existing contract nullifies the notice or that the notice was not adequate.

    Given the gaming commission had determined the notice was in fact adequate and therefore valid, you’re fighting an uphill battle you’re likely to lose.

    So, to start with, when this all started, how did you know comp dollars would be awarded? How did you learn how much would be awarded (without answering that you wouldn’t know if you’ve been awarded a proper amount)? How did you initially register with this sports book (physical presence or online)?
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