Flying Kids for Visitation

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Texas

Background
Kids are 8 and 12. Mom is the primary custodial parent. Mom is extremely opposed to allowing them to fly alone. Dad (my partner) feels comfortable with flying them alone on a nonstop as the time on board is quite short. He wants to fly them to save himself some driving and maybe have something to negotiate with mom. He will also need to hire a nanny on their end to transport the kids to the airport. The kids would spend less time overall dealing with airport and flight than they currently do with driving. He must drive 350 miles RT to get the kids every two weeks. He has to take time off of work to do that as well. The driving used to be shared but the decree has a clause in it that triggered at a certain date requiring Dad to pick the kids up from her doorstep for visitation. This change came as a surprise and he now wishes he had used an attorney to help him with the divorce.

Because mom is so opposed to the flying it is likely she may attempt some legal action or withhold visitation. Dad has tried to negotiate a better driving arrangement with her for many months with no success. She is angry and has been since he got into a new relationship with me almost 4 years ago. They had been divorced for a couple of years at the time I met him. She's got many of the hallmarks of a high conflict personality (smear campaigns, alienation of the kids, and public meltdowns with verbal abuse and name calling). The tension is pretty bad between them. Dad has chosen to only communicate with her when absolutely necessary and in writing if possible. He goes through the schools directly to get information about the kids.

What the Lawyers Say
We've had lawyers tell us to try and work with mom on the driving if at all possible. That has not worked. We've had a lawyer tell us to start flying the kids to make life easier for us. This attorney said flying the kids would be much cheaper than trying to modify the custody agreement. We've had lawyers suggest we attempt to modify custody but be prepared for an expensive battle. We have other changes in circumstances I won't detail at this time.

Questions
Will the courts view Dad's desire to fly the kids as hampering the best interest of the kids? Will they see Dad as purposefully making life more difficult for mom with this decision? In truth there has been nothing to bring her to the negotiating table and the flying idea is partly a desire to relieve the driving burden but it is also a leverage tactic on Dad's part in hopes she will be motivated to work with him on the driving. I'm pretty sure any judge will see through that but will it hurt dad in the long run?

Thanks!

It is not unusual for parents to wish their children to fly for parenting time...particularly when the distance is far enough that driving is a burden. However, its also unusual to have an every other weekend schedule, when the distance between homes is far enough that driving is a burden. Generally, when that is the case a more long distance schedule gets put in place. Every other Thanksgiving break, 1/2 of Christmas break, every or every other Spring break, and the bulk of the summer. One weekend a month added into that is not unusual either if its workable.

Therefore, your husband trying to use flying as leverage might just rock the boat enough that a judge would entertain a modification of parenting time if mom asks for it. However, at the same time because its pretty common for children to fly, and because one of the children is already 12, its also possible that a judge would feel that its perfectly reasonable for the children to fly. However there are also some judges who feel differently about children flying and some judges who won't go against a parent who is opposed to their children flying.

All in all, I do not think that the idea of the children flying is necessarily going to be the leverage that dad hopes it will be in bringing mom to the table about driving. It could be if dad has the right judge, but it might not be at all if dad has the wrong judge. Dad probably should run the idea by an attorney in the area that has jurisdiction of the case, to see what the climate of the local courts are in regards to flying.

Man I was driving 495 miles round trip to get my ex husband's kids every other weekend when I was with him. We usually stayed in hotels in the area (where we are both from).

Thanks! Great response and I agree with all of this.

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Quoting llworking

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Generally, when that is the case a more long distance schedule gets put in place. Every other Thanksgiving break, 1/2 of Christmas break, every or every other Spring break, and the bulk of the summer. One weekend a month added into that is not unusual either if its workable.

Therefore, your husband trying to use flying as leverage might just rock the boat enough that a judge would entertain a modification of parenting time if mom asks for it.

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Mom likes her free weekends and has made it clear she is not interested in modifying the decree. She also doesn't like the idea of being away from her kids for more than 3 weeks at a time. Would the judge entertain a modification if dad asked in response to being called into court? Dad can just try and attempt to get the decree modified. He is trying to be cautious about how and when he uses court. It's a subtle difference but us taking her to court to get a modification vs. her taking us to court in response to something like the flying seems more reasonable to us.

Yes we have done the hotel thing a few times. We have a life, and a home and the kids have friends and activities in our town. It's not really a great solution for us and the expense of hotels starts to really add up. We reserve staying in hotels around special events like birthdays and the holidays. Our hope is to have a nice stable schedule that we can work around.

So you are saying that your husband prefers being reactive to being proactive? That does not make a lot of sense to me. Yes, dad could certainly counter file for a modification if mom takes him to court, but in this instance, being reactive doesn't seem logical to me.

I am assuming that they have joint legal custody, correct? Therefore if dad wants something (the children flying) and mom disagrees, it would behoove dad to take it to court to get a judge's decision on the matter, not the other way around.

Fair enough. It's more like Dad wants to appear reasonable. But at some point all of one's attempts to work with the other party may start to look like harassment when that person has made it clear they don't want to make changes. So yes proactively pursuing modification makes sense. Yes they do have joint legal custody.

My kids started flying from AZ to NY when my son was 10 and my daughter was 8. No big deal. The airlines take good care of kids.

It's unfortunate that the Dad has a lunatic for an ex wife. I've been there. There is no negotiating with a lunatic. You can't ask for permission. A lunatic always says no just to be obstructionist.

This is a no-win situation for the Dad.

Only the lawyers benefit from a court fight.

The best revenge that the Dad could have is to relocate to the same town where the ex and the kids live (if feasible) so he can see the kids all the time.

Barring that, why doesn't he fly there for a weekend, rent a car, and take the kids somewhere fun for a few days and then he can fly back?

I'm guessing you want to be involved in the kids' lives but you might have to resign yourself to that not happening if something else works out better for the Dad and the kids.

How was the change a surprise to dad? He signed off on the stipulations set forth in the decree. And really if the decree states that Dad has to pick them up from her doorstep and he agreed to that by signing the decree, he can't complain that mom is following the order.

Who created the distance? If it was Dad, why should mom bare that responsibility just because Dad chose to move away.

Honestly, I wouldn't call Mom unreasonable in this situation. I would be very uncomfortable too with my child flying without me or her dad present. Particularly because she is a nervous flier. I know others that have done it, and if that was the only option then I would be forced to, but I wouldn't like it at all. Mom, currently has the court order on her side, which Dad agreed to the stipulations on. If I had it on my side too, then I would definitely be following it until the court told me I had to follow something else. Especially if Dad created the distance in the first place.

As a side note, you have to be very careful about how involved you are in this. You are legally a stranger to the child, and would be even if you were married to Dad. This is Dad's battle, and he needs to be asking the questions and working out the game plan. You can be there in a support role in the background, but when you say things like "Yes we have done the hotel thing a few times. We have a life, and a home and the kids have friends and activities in our town. It's not really a great solution for us and the expense of hotels starts to really add up. We reserve staying in hotels around special events like birthdays and the holidays. Our hope is to have a nice stable schedule that we can work around, " it indicates that you are more involved then you should be having only started dating their dad a few months ago.

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Quoting adjusterjack

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I'm guessing you want to be involved in the kids' lives but you might have to resign yourself to that not happening if something else works out better for the Dad and the kids.

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Yep spot on for all of your replies. I addressed the idea of hotel and visiting earlier. But in a nutshell he is trying to include his kids in his life in a meaningful way. The kids have friends and activities they are involved with near dad. Hotels and travel doesn't quite accomplish that goal. He has used that way of seeing the kids when he starts feeling the fatigue of the drive. But we reserve that for special occasions. He also gets creative with his work schedule and has his company fly him to their city instead of ours to help ease the burden. None of it is ideal.

Just a bit more backstory... When he and I first met he was exercising all of his visitation at her parents home. He spent holidays with her and her family to be with the kids. Six months in dating he gradually started taking more and more of his rights (not sure if that is the best word) back. He started seeing his kids in his home and taking them on vacations to locales of his choosing. She was mad about me but she was livid about the loss of control. She would ask for additional money from him periodically and dictate how he did quite a few things. He acquiesced to keep the peace. He walked on eggshells around her. She was invited to come for some things involving the kids but her behavior became more and more abusive. He went to a therapist and was advised to start implementing some boundaries with her.

We have managed to avoid court but it's time. We are at the end of our rope with trying to reason. I'm not sure how great documenting this stuff is but we've been doing that both in writing and recording just to prepare for the worst. Before we embark on that chapter I think we wanted to put feelers out to see if we are missing anything and to bounce the idea of flying the kids off the community. He's willing to fly the kids to avoid more conflict. Except sadly she has a problem with that too :(

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Quoting readytoleave

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How was the change a surprise to dad?

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Dad did not have a lawyer when he signed the decree. He relied on much of what he and mom had verbally discussed. He spoke to her lawyer. Mom promised him she would meet him halfway and her moving would not affect his ability to see his kids. He does wish that he had retained a lawyer now. It was a mistake on his part.

Mom created the distance. She had a habit of "visiting her parents" for large chunks of their marriage. With her last visit she established residency and then divorced him. She suffers from a mental illness and left him for those reasons. He was and still is a great provider and a positive and loving person. He did not want his marriage to end.

I've been with my husband for 4 years. We own a home and cars together. I stay out of discussions with mom. For my sanity I do not discuss anything with mom related to kid matters. I see it as they are business partners in the business of raising their kids. Their custody agreement is their business contract. She vacillates with wanting to co-parent with me and hating me. When she is cordial to me I am friendly back. I don't intentionally ever try and agitate mom. I feel compassion for her. I grew up with a single mom and I know how hard that can be. I step back and let Dad do all of the negotiating. This forum is an internet forum where people can ask questions and I do not think there is harm in me asking questions. In court, mediation or any other dealings with mom Dad does all the heavy lifting.

This is only a fraction of what we deal with regarding mom. Both children repeatedly ask to come live with us. It is sad.

I read it as 4 months, not four years. I apologize for that misconception