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Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)

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  • 01-22-2018, 05:14 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    I wasn't sure this fit anywhere else, but I hope someone can advise me. I will happily move if there's a better forum for this topic!
    I'm writing a book in which (long story short) a character discovers as an adult that she was kidnapped at birth and raised by her kidnapper. The lady who kidnapped her was able to bribe an unscrupulous doctor into saying he delivered the baby at home, so she managed to get a real birth certificate, and subsequently a Social Security card. Through the years, the character use these documents to do all kinds of things: get a driver's license and passport, go to med school, get a job, get married, etc. Now that she (and the authorities) know the truth, obviously the birth certificate she's been using all these years is no longer valid, so what happens now? Will all the things she's done over the years be undone? How does she get it sorted out?
  • 01-22-2018, 05:21 PM
    flyingron
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    If she had a legitimate pre-abduction birth certificate, then she can take that and convince the social security and DMV that this is her identity.

    If she was abducted before the birth was recorded, it's going to likely take a court action to set things straight.
  • 01-22-2018, 05:33 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Thanks for replying! Her birth parents do have her original birth certificate. Will her degrees, job, marriage still be legally intact even though she was using an invalid birth certificate when she got all those things?
  • 01-22-2018, 05:34 PM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
    Quote:

    Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
    What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
    Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
    Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
    What's in a name? that which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet;



    her accomplishments are still her accomplishments

    her birth certificate would require correction.

    Her association with the faux parent(s) with the SSA would have to be corrected as well as any place the faux parent(s) are listed as her parent(s).

    Unless she somehow married a blood relative that wouldn’t change nor would most any other accomplishment




  • 01-22-2018, 05:48 PM
    cbg
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Hi SilenceintheLibrary, I'm an author too.

    What is the answer you want it to be? What set of events would make the story work best?
  • 01-22-2018, 06:19 PM
    asa_jim
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Did she ever get a traffic ticket under the assumed name? Perhaps something more serious? It can be quite tricky to erase an entire lifetime's identity just be reverting to an original birth certificate. Has she ever been fingerprinted? Perhaps for a job or security clearance? Perhaps a petit theft when she was 19? That could be interesting as well...
  • 01-22-2018, 06:24 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    Now that she (and the authorities) know the truth, obviously the birth certificate she's been using all these years is no longer valid, so what happens now? Will all the things she's done over the years be undone? How does she get it sorted out?

    You did not mention a state, and of course it is state law that applies here. But the birth certificate is not necessarily “invalid.” Assuming the woman was born in the state specified in the birth certificate on the day provided by the certificate then the only error on the birth certificate is the identification of the mother (and perhaps father, if one was stated in the certificate). Thus, the only thing that might be nullified here is the identification of who her mother is. As she is an adult now, that really only affects her when it comes to inheritance by intestacy. It certainly won’t invalidate her marriage, render her medical degree or medical license invalid, etc.
  • 01-22-2018, 07:54 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    Hi SilenceintheLibrary, I'm an author too.

    What is the answer you want it to be? What set of events would make the story work best?

    Ideally I would like to make things go as smoothly for her as possible, as there is quite a lot going on in the story in general, and the emotional impact of finding out the woman she has always considered to be her mother is actually her kidnapper is overwhelming enough. I'd like her to be able to sort through the legal issues without too much difficulty. Of course the name on the second birth certificate is not the same as the one on her original birth certificate - but the name her kidnapper gave her is the name she's been called her whole life, so she wants that to be her legal name.
    Additionally, the birth family is a bit loony, and she wants nothing to do with most of them. In the end she feels more loyalty to the woman who raised her, even if the circumstances weren't exactly legal. Although the kidnapper will have to serve a prison sentence, I am considering the possibility of a legal adoption eventually.

    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    You did not mention a state, and of course it is state law that applies here. But the birth certificate is not necessarily “invalid.” Assuming the woman was born in the state specified in the birth certificate on the day provided by the certificate then the only error on the birth certificate is the identification of the mother (and perhaps father, if one was stated in the certificate). Thus, the only thing that might be nullified here is the identification of who her mother is. As she is an adult now, that really only affects her when it comes to inheritance by intestacy. It certainly won’t invalidate her marriage, render her medical degree or medical license invalid, etc.

    Well, it is a little more complicated then that. She was born in Virginia and then spirited away to New York, so the place of birth is wrong, and the second birth certificate also has her DOB two days later than it really is (at least as I've written it now, though of course I'm only in the first draft). Also, the name on her second birth certificate is completely different from on the first. By the time all this comes to light, she is living in the Midwest (The series as a whole takes place in a fictional Midwestern city, and I've been intentionally vague about the state because it gives me more leeway with legal issues).

    Quote:

    Quoting asa_jim
    View Post
    Did she ever get a traffic ticket under the assumed name? Perhaps something more serious? It can be quite tricky to erase an entire lifetime's identity just be reverting to an original birth certificate. Has she ever been fingerprinted? Perhaps for a job or security clearance? Perhaps a petit theft when she was 19? That could be interesting as well...

    She most likely would have been fingerprinted for her job, but she has never broken the law. I certainly don't want her identity erased; that's actually what I'm trying to avoid!
  • 01-22-2018, 08:36 PM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    You are thinking it would affect much more than it actually would.

    If there was a valid and real birth certificate registered with the state of birth, then that is still valid.

    for all intents and purposes she has lived under an assumed name that doesn’t match her actual birth certificate. It really won’t change much. In many states a person can assume any name they wish whenever they wish. This isn’t much different.

    But she has the benefit of everything in her life being under her assume name. A few corrections of vital statistics and away she goes.

    If the legal parents didn’t obtain a SS number, then there is even less mess. Her current SS # would still be valid and the fact her entire life was lived using that number, all of her earnings would be properly credited to her a Account although under the assumed name. That can be fixed. If they did obtain a number and the kidnapper also did then the SSA can deal with that as well. There are actually some people that are issued a new SS # for various reasons. The SSA overcomes the issues involved.
  • 01-22-2018, 08:42 PM
    llworking
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    Ideally I would like to make things go as smoothly for her as possible, as there is quite a lot going on in the story in general, and the emotional impact of finding out the woman she has always considered to be her mother is actually her kidnapper is overwhelming enough. I'd like her to be able to sort through the legal issues without too much difficulty. Of course the name on the second birth certificate is not the same as the one on her original birth certificate - but the name her kidnapper gave her is the name she's been called her whole life, so she wants that to be her legal name.
    Additionally, the birth family is a bit loony, and she wants nothing to do with most of them. In the end she feels more loyalty to the woman who raised her, even if the circumstances weren't exactly legal. Although the kidnapper will have to serve a prison sentence, I am considering the possibility of a legal adoption eventually.



    Well, it is a little more complicated then that. She was born in Virginia and then spirited away to New York, so the place of birth is wrong, and the second birth certificate also has her DOB two days later than it really is (at least as I've written it now, though of course I'm only in the first draft). Also, the name on her second birth certificate is completely different from on the first. By the time all this comes to light, she is living in the Midwest (The series as a whole takes place in a fictional Midwestern city, and I've been intentionally vague about the state because it gives me more leeway with legal issues).



    She most likely would have been fingerprinted for her job, but she has never broken the law. I certainly don't want her identity erased; that's actually what I'm trying to avoid!

    I have read more than one book that dealt with the issue of someone discovering that they are not who they thought that they were. Most of those works of fiction did not attempt to deal with the legal aspect of things. They dealt only with the emotional aspects.

    In my opinion someone who has been "jane doe" for their entire life, for their entire education and for their entire life achievements is likely going to opt to remain "jane doe" on a legal basis.
  • 01-22-2018, 08:48 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    I was hoping it wouldn't affect that much, but my legal knowledge is limited so I wanted to make sure. It seems unlikely that her legal parents would have applied for a SS number in the two days before she was kidnapped, so that wouldn't be an issue. So it sounds like it would just be a matter of correcting some facts and then making whatever decisions she wishes regarding legal name changes. That makes the story much easier to tell as I can focus on the plot and not get bogged down with legal details!
    Thanks to everyone who has replied!
  • 01-22-2018, 09:17 PM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    And as others have stated or implied;

    youre the writer. You get to include whatever details you want to include. If you don’t want the character to deal with the legal issues in your story, then don’t include them.
  • 01-22-2018, 09:32 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    I usually prefer to do research before I get too in-depth with the related plot point so I have a decent understanding of the subject matter and can write the details that make sense to include when the time comes. Often only about 10% of my research actually comes out on the page, but I think having the other 90% in my brain still makes the story better. Plus, I don't always know which details will be important to include until I actually write it. It's the third book in a police detective series, so completely leaving out legal details would be an oversight, but I tend to focus more on the emotional aspect in my books (whether that's a good thing depends on which reader you ask). The legal information is still important to me regardless of how much makes it into the final book. I just feel like I have a mental block if I can't envision exactly how something is going to work out!
  • 01-23-2018, 06:52 AM
    cbg
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    The legal information is still important to me regardless of how much makes it into the final book.

    Oh, yeah, I definitely get that.

    It sounds as if you can pretty much let the story happen the way it wants to happen without too many, if any, irregularities. After all, it's up to you whether or not her birth parents did or did not apply for an SSN, and so on.

    I absolutely understand wanting to not only have the backstory in place even if it doesn't make it into the book, but also to having it accurate. But don't let it kill the story, either. Not too long ago I posted a legal question for one of my books here, and when I got no answers I went to a different legal forum where I also post. I explained not only what I was asking but why I wanted it to go the way I did, and one of the lawyers there advised me to take poetic license. He said the situation I was working on could go a number of different ways depending on specifics that I didn't want to get into in the story, and even if what I wanted it to do wasn't absolutely perfectly the way it would actually go down, it wasn't so far off the mark as to get me into trouble either, and I should just write the story without trying too hard to fit the legalities in. That was really good advice and I took it.
  • 01-23-2018, 03:35 PM
    Shadowbunny
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    As an avid reader (especially of crime/mystery fiction), this thread fascinates me. (And no, I'm not an aspiring writer who wants to pick your collective brains for pointers, so you can rest easy.) I enjoy a plot that (mostly) adheres to how things work in the real world, so your attention to these finer points is appreciated.

    Signed,

    The person who desperately wants to know what name your write under.
  • 01-23-2018, 04:46 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Thanks cbg, I knew a fellow writer would understand! That was solid advice from the lawyer and I wholeheartedly agree. I had to make a similar decision on the first book in this series. In the rough draft I was adhering too strictly to the rule of law, and the readers in my test group felt something was missing, with nearly all of them making the same suggestion for a particular scene. In the end I decided to bend the rules a little to give the story a more satisfying resolution, and readers seem to like it this way. And there's really no point in writing fiction if we can't make it more satisfying than real life sometimes! I was prepared to take some artistic license in the second book as well, as I had a storyline I was quite attached to that I wasn't sure would ever really happen, but then I talked to an expert in the field and found out my storyline was actually quite plausible! I was over the moon about that! With this new book I'm also feeling optimistic that I can pull off the desired storyline without a problem, but I'll certainly use some license if necessary to pull it off.

    Another question burning in my mind is: what's the lightest possible sentence the kidnapper could get? Is there any way she could get probation, or is some prison time a given? She doens't have a record, she took the child with a genuine belief that she could give her a better life than her birth parents could, and she raised her well. The baby she kidnapped is now a successful woman in her late thirties who is pretty upset about the arrest of the woman she's been calling Mom all these years. Because of other circumstances involving the birth family, I think a judge would have some sympathy for the kidnapper and would likely show some leniency, but nevertheless, she did commit a crime.
  • 01-23-2018, 06:43 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    Another question burning in my mind is: what's the lightest possible sentence the kidnapper could get?

    One would have to look at the relevant Virginia statutes at the time of the kidnapping as well as the laws since to work that out. However, probation is almost certainly not going to be an option. Under current Virginia law kidnapping is generally a class 5 felony, punishable by no less than one year and no more than 10 years in prison. Virginia has no statute of limitations on kidnapping, so she could still be prosecuted for it. Note that the child is not the only victim here. The birth parents and other birth family members are, too, as they were deprived of a family member as a result of what was done. I don't see a Virginia judge taking that lightly, particularly in the more rural and conservative parts of the state.

    She could also be charged by the federal government for kidnapping, especially since it resulted in taking the child across state lines. When the person taken is a child and the kidnapper is an adult, federal law provides that the kidnapper shall be sentenced to no less than 20 years in prison and may be sentenced to up to life in prison. So if the feds picked up the case, she would serve a very long time in prison. Note that she could end up serving time for both the Virginia crime and the federal offense consecutively.
  • 01-23-2018, 08:40 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Hmm...this might be a long shot, but is there any way she could potentially get off the hook, or bargain her way to a lesser conviction, by making a convincing case that she believed she was removing the child from harm?
  • 01-24-2018, 07:43 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    If you want to put a trial in the book you could always go the jury nullification route.
  • 01-24-2018, 07:57 AM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    If you want to put a trial in the book you could always go the jury nullification route.


    Yes but...

    could you really see a jury voting not guilty at s trial for kidnapping? Typically jury nullification is seen as society stating they do not support a given law. In a case of kidnapping I can’t see a jury ignoring the injury caused to the involved family.
  • 01-24-2018, 08:00 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Only if she kidnapped the child to protect it from harm as SilenceintheLibrary mentioned above. That comment is what made me think of it.
  • 01-24-2018, 08:14 AM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    I'll have to do more research on jury nullification, but at first glance it looks like something that can be applied if the jury believes the law is unjust OR if they believe the law shouldn't be applied in a particular case. There are several mitigating factors in this case, so it could be possible, especially if she has an outstanding lawyer.
  • 01-24-2018, 08:40 AM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    I'll have to do more research on jury nullification, but at first glance it looks like something that can be applied if the jury believes the law is unjust OR if they believe the law shouldn't be applied in a particular case. There are several mitigating factors in this case, so it could be possible, especially if she has an outstanding lawyer.

    A jury can do it for whatever reason they choose. It’s as simple as they agree to find the defendant not guilty regardless of whether the evidence proved otherwise. It is more often seen in situation where the jury believes the law is unjust but can also be used where the jury believes that although they don’t disagree with the law, regarding the case at hand they believe it is unjust to convict the defendant. That could be becsause of the circumstances surrounding crime cause them to see the criminal act as justified or that they have sympathy for the defendant for some reason and just believe convicting them and subjecting them to the punishment involved would not be the proper path.

    There can be myriad reasons for a jury to nullify a prosecution. I, personally, intended to cause a trial to result in a non-conviction because I do not believe the judge involved is fair and impartial. Even after we were notified the case had been resolved without a trial he felt the need to tell the jury pool that the defendent was lucky he plead guilty since his penalty would have been 2-3 times greater had he went through with the trial. I believe a judge that penalizes a person for exercising their constitutional rights (including requiring the state to prove their case even if it was obvioius the defendent had acted as charged. Not all findings of not guilty are due to the fact the defendant wasn’t guilty. Sometimes it just because the state screwed up or they couldn’t overcome the burden of proof in the trial. I think we all know of cases where the defendent was obviously guilty but walked out of the courtroom a free person. Sometimes it’s heart wrenching to see such a situation but ultimately it makes the state perform as they should; to prove their case while complying with the rules and laws), regardless that the judge believes it to be an improper waste of resources, should be removed from the bench.
  • 01-24-2018, 08:40 AM
    cbg
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    EXACTLY what kind of harm would she be allegedly saving the child from?
  • 01-24-2018, 08:46 AM
    jk
    Re: My Novel Woman Was Kidnapped at Birth - How to Sort Through Legal Issues
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    EXACTLY what kind of harm would she be allegedly saving the child from?

    That’s why i cannot see jury nullification as being reasonable in such a case


    even if the kidnapper believed the child would die if they didn’t act, the argument fails due to the kidnapper keeping the child and raising it as hers. That proves the act was self serving. Otherwise, even if the person initially kidnapped the child, there are processes and agencies in place to deal with the situation once the threat of imminent harm has been removed. That could justify the initial act but cannot justify the continuation of the act.


    while I could probably create a scenario where one might be able to justify the continuation, it would be so far removed from reasonable it wouldn’t be plausible.
  • 01-24-2018, 11:50 AM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    The system wasn't quite the same in the 1970s though. Before 2016, a girl of any age could marry a man of any age so long as she was having his baby. Men could get out of statutory rape charges just by marrying the victim. Such is the case here. A 13-year-old girl was impregnated by a man more than 20 years her senior and pushed into marriage by her parents, who insisted it was best for the baby. The story hit the news and became a national controversy, with the father of the baby advocating an extreme religious movement that states teen girls should marry older men. Our kidnapper, upon learning of the baby girl's birth, hatched a plan to kidnap her, believing it was best for both mother and baby. Indeed, the teen mom, now without her baby, no longer felt she had to remain in the unwanted marriage and ran away to her aunt and uncle, who made sure she finished her education. She publicly stated that she hoped whoever took her baby would take good care of her because she didn't know how. There is no question that her life was improved by not having the baby, whom she would probably have given up for adoption if she could have. Had the baby been returned to her father, he would have brought her up according to his beliefs, that girls should have a homeschool education focused on learning to be a wife and mother, then enter an arranged marriage with an older man at the youngest legal age. There is also the very real concern that a man who has a sexual interest in young girls might harm his own daughter. The kidnapper could not have gotten help from the authorities, because they would have returned the child to her father. While his ideology would disgust most of us, it was still perfectly legal. Of course there was nothing legal about the kidnapper's actions, but a modern jury might find her more sympathetic than the birth father and grandparents, particularly with the birth mother testifying that she believes it was for the best.
  • 01-24-2018, 11:53 AM
    jk
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    The system wasn't quite the same in the 1970s though. Before 2016, a girl of any age could marry a man of any age so long as she was having his baby.
    in what state? And if you are going to write a story with very specific, and unusual, laws from a state, you should make that clear. In general your statement is not true on a national basis.

    Quote:

    Indeed, the teen mom, now without her baby, no longer felt she had to remain in the unwanted marriage
    do you have any children? I’m male so it is somewhat different but of all the women I know, I cannot imagine a single one being relieved if their child was kidnapped. That flies in the face of natural instincts. A parent will naturally want their child with them, even if it puts their own life in turmoil or even under fear of death.


    [QUOTE]There is also the very real concern that a man who has a sexual interest in young girls might harm his own daughter. The kidnapper could not have gotten help from the authorities, because they would have returned the child to her father. While his ideology would disgust most of us, it was still perfectly legal.[QUOTE]

    now you’ve really lost me. Where has incest been legal and where has it ever been legal to have an unnatural sexual interest in infants?
  • 01-24-2018, 12:02 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Sorry, I meant to specify Virginia. And I'm here to discuss legal issues, not my storytelling abilities.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:17 PM
    jk
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    Sorry, I meant to specify Virginia. And I'm here to discuss legal issues, not my storytelling abilities.


    I was speaking to the legal inaccuracies you posted.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:26 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    I didn't say incest was legal. The baby was kidnapped at birth. Her abductor was concerned that he might sexually abuse his daughter when she got older, not that he had already done it. My personal life is not relevant to the post, but as I stated, the birth mother did not want a baby and would have preferred putting her up for adoption if she'd felt that was an option.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:28 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    I didn't say incest was legal. The baby was kidnapped at birth. Her abductor was concerned that he might sexually abuse his daughter when she got older, not that he had already done it. My personal life is not relevant to the post, but as I stated, the birth mother did not want a baby and would have preferred putting her up for adoption if she'd felt that was an option.

    Marriage does not erase a past crime - like statutory rape.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:33 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Sadly, it was doing so in Virginia, which is why they changed the law. I read a recent article in the Washington Post about it. Men were literally evading arrest by marrying their victims.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:39 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    I think you need to do a little more research and not take what you read in the Post as research. Best as a quick look tells me the last time that section of Virginia law was changed was 2014 and I didn't check to see what the change was.
  • 01-24-2018, 12:57 PM
    jk
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    I didn't say incest was legal. The baby was kidnapped at birth. Her abductor was concerned that he might sexually abuse his daughter when she got older, not that he had already done it. My personal life is not relevant to the post, but as I stated, the birth mother did not want a baby and would have preferred putting her up for adoption if she'd felt that was an option.

    You didn’t say it was a concern about after the child grows up and you were speaking about the father having an interest in his own child (incest) and you specifically said his activities were legal.

    Quote:

    There is also the very real concern that a man who has a sexual interest in young girls might harm his own daughter. The kidnapper could not have gotten help from the authorities, because they would have returned the child to her father. While his ideology would disgust most of us, it was still perfectly legal.

    I was speaking as to how a parent would likely feel regarding their child being kidnapped. The only reason I mentioned your personal life was simply in curiosity as to why you believe a woman could feel benefitted by their child being kidnapped. If you have no children then it may be difficult for to understand how unlikely your storyline would be.


    I have no intention of arguing with you. I posted with the intent of helping you understand things as a possible reader may see things in conjunction with the involved laws. It appears you feel a need to defend yourself rather than seeing what I post with the intent I meant.


    Hopefully ive provided you with some benefit and wish you all the best.
  • 01-24-2018, 02:07 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    You didn’t say it was a concern about after the child grows up and you were speaking about the father having an interest in his own child (incest) and you specifically said his activities were legal.




    I was speaking as to how a parent would likely feel regarding their child being kidnapped. The only reason I mentioned your personal life was simply in curiosity as to why you believe a woman could feel benefitted by their child being kidnapped. If you have no children then it may be difficult for to understand how unlikely your storyline would be.


    I have no intention of arguing with you. I posted with the intent of helping you understand things as a possible reader may see things in conjunction with the involved laws. It appears you feel a need to defend yourself rather than seeing what I post with the intent I meant.


    Hopefully ive provided you with some benefit and wish you all the best.

    My apologies if I have sounded curt; I've been trying to reply during short moments of downtime at work. I appreciate that you want to help, but I would prefer to discuss only the legal aspect on this thread. In other words, I would like to know more about jury nullification and whether it might happen in a case like this, where the birth mother believed her child was better off with someone else, but I don't want to get off track and start debating the plausibility of plot points, such as whether a mother would ever not want to raise a child she has birthed. As much as I enjoy hearing reader's perspectives, I am afraid if we start debating plot points here that the thread will lose its intended purpose. The legal questions are what I am trying to learn more about here. If you have questions about my writing in general, feel free to PM me, but I'd like to keep the thread focused on legal facts.
  • 01-24-2018, 02:18 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    That's the thing with jury nullification. There isn't case law on when it can be used. A defense lawyer doesn't even have to bring it up in trial. A jury could just look at the facts of the case and all decide that the law as applied in that case doesn't warrant a conviction.
  • 01-24-2018, 02:24 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    I think you need to do a little more research and not take what you read in the Post as research. Best as a quick look tells me the last time that section of Virginia law was changed was 2014 and I didn't check to see what the change was.

    I've read articles from several sources. In some states, including (in the past) Virginia, statutory rape charges are dropped if the perpetrator marries the victim. It's senseless (which is why the laws are changing) but is probably left over from a different era in which marriage was viewed very differently. There was one man in Northern Virginia who used the same tactic to escape charges twice (the first marriage ended in divorce). This may not apply if charges have already been filed - I will have to look into that more - but apparently it was no longer considered a crime once they were married.

    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    That's the thing with jury nullification. There isn't case law on when it can be used. A defense lawyer doesn't even have to bring it up in trial. A jury could just look at the facts of the case and all decide that the law as applied in that case doesn't warrant a conviction.

    Interesting...I will have to learn more about it and when it has been used in the past. I'm grasping at straws a little, but my test audience so far is feeling highly sympathetic towards the abductor and is begging me to find a way to keep her out of jail. Admittedly, I'm also sad about having to send her to jail, because I know it will break her "daughter's" heart. But while I'm willing to use a little license, I don't want to get crazy. It's a thin line to be sure!
  • 01-24-2018, 02:36 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    A google search of "jury nullification cases" brings up a lot.

    I found the story in the Post that I think you are talking about. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.b8c1060c6ad1

    It is not a change in the statutory rape law it is a change in the age which one can legally marry.

    According to the article

    Quote:

    The change is aimed at curbing forced marriage, human trafficking and statutory rape disguised as marriage. Activists say the previous law created a “fast-track to child marriages” for abusers who could evade investigation by child-welfare officials by simply marrying their victims.
  • 01-24-2018, 02:44 PM
    SilenceintheLibrary
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    A google search of "jury nullification cases" brings up a lot.

    I found the story in the Post that I think you are talking about. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.b8c1060c6ad1

    It is not a change in the statutory rape law it is a change in the age which one can legally marry.

    According to the article


    Yes, that was what I meant. People now have to be 18 in order to marry in Virginia (or 16 if legally emancipated), whereas in the past they could marry at 16 with parental permission, or younger if they were pregnant or had given birth. Although a grown man would normally have been charged with statutory rape for having a sexual relationship with an underage girl, they were apparently able to avoid it if they married the girl in question. That has changed; while staturory rape laws are technnically the same, that loophole no longer exists.
  • 01-24-2018, 02:55 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Legal Issues for a Child Who Was Kidnapped at Birth (For a Novel)
    Quote:

    Quoting SilenceintheLibrary
    View Post
    Yes, that was what I meant. People now have to be 18 in order to marry in Virginia (or 16 if legally emancipated), whereas in the past they could marry at 16 with parental permission, or younger if they were pregnant or had given birth. Although a grown man would normally have been charged with statutory rape for having a sexual relationship with an underage girl, they were apparently able to avoid it if they married the girl in question. That has changed; while staturory rape laws are technnically the same, that loophole no longer exists.


    Only if they could get the parents to go along with it.
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