Are Spring-Assisted Opening Knives Legal in California

Hey Guys!
I was looking into getting a Gerber Propel Downgrade AO but was discouraged by the controversy over whether a spring assisted knife, that contains a thumb stud, is considered an automatic knife, or switchblade. As it says in the title, I live in Santa Barbara, California and was very interested in this knife. Additionally, if anyone has anything to comment about the knife, if its a good knife or not, please do.

Thanks for the support!

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Additionally, if anyone has anything to comment about the knife, if its a good knife or not, please do.

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this site does not provide product reviews. If that is what you seek, there are better sites to do that.

california’s definition of answitchblade;

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Quoting 17235

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As used in this part, “switchblade knife” means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife, or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.

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the code section continues speak g to your concern of the thumb pin

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“Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

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The Gerber autos are clearly not legal. The Propel would seem to meet the exception JK quotes (in fact, I it is because of this distinction in California and other places like Canada that Gerber makes this version that looks like it would otherwise be in the auto line). You have to push the knife blade itself past a given point before the spring kicks in or else it wants to stay shut.

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Quoting flyingron

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The Gerber autos are clearly not legal. The Propel would seem to meet the exception JK quotes (in fact, I it is because of this distinction in California and other places like Canada that Gerber makes this version that looks like it would otherwise be in the auto line). You have to push the knife blade itself past a given point before the spring kicks in or else it wants to stay shut.

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So would you not recommend I get this knife, even though it is a spring assisted knife, not an automatic?

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Quoting jk

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california’s definition of answitchblade;

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So I have read that before but am still confused. If it has a thumb stud on the blade that you must put pressure on to activate the mechanism, is it considered a switchblade?

No, I didn't say that. I said that the propel is likely California safe where the regular Gerber autos clearly aren't. The key is if you have to move the blade (by thumb stud or by gripping it directly) past some point to overcome the spring keeping it closed. Once you do that, the spring bringing it open is allowed.

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Quoting flyingron

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No, I didn't say that. I said that the propel is likely California safe where the regular Gerber autos clearly aren't. The key is if you have to move the blade (by thumb stud or by gripping it directly) past some point to overcome the spring keeping it closed. Once you do that, the spring bringing it open is allowed.

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Not to go against you but are you definate about this? I really apprieciate your help, but getting caught with a misdemeanor is the last thing I want. Thanks.

Read the statute JK posted for yourself and then go to the dealer and try the knife. If you have to push it past a point where if you don't it just closes again, it would appear to be legal to possess, even with the spring assist. The thumb stud is allowed as part of that (as if you were pushing on the blade directly). My look at the guys opening it on youtube (I've never actually had my hands on one of these) is that it fits that definition.

The problem is here in my state (not California) even the Propel wouldn't be legal to carry concealed. We're pretty much limited to regular pocket knives.

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Quoting flyingron

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Read the statute JK posted for yourself and then go to the dealer and try the knife. If you have to push it past a point where if you don't it just closes again, it would appear to be legal to possess, even with the spring assist. The thumb stud is allowed as part of that (as if you were pushing on the blade directly). My look at the guys opening it on youtube (I've never actually had my hands on one of these) is that it fits that definition.

The problem is here in my state (not California) even the Propel wouldn't be legal to carry concealed. We're pretty much limited to regular pocket knives.

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First off, I found this knife online and the local sporting store doesn't sell it. Secondly, would this knife be legal to conceal carry (such as in the pocket in public)?

Your best bet is to speak with a California licensed attorney that deals with weapon laws in the State of California. Even if he were to charge you a few bucks.

From my understanding of the law, it is considered a switchblade in the eyes of California law.

A weapons charge in the State of California. PC 21510 can cost you up to 6 months in jail and a fine of up to $1,000.

Do yourself a favor and seek out a qualified attorney on weapon laws. A quick question may not cost you a dime at his practice, but even if he were to charge you $100, look at what he could be saving you.

Thanks for all the replies. I spoke with a friend of mine whose uncle is a police officer. Not only did he have this very knife but he also verified it with his uncle who said it is not a switchblade. Thanks again.

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Quoting apk2001

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Thanks for all the replies. I spoke with a friend of mine whose uncle is a police officer. Not only did he have this very knife but he also verified it with his uncle who said it is not a switchblade. Thanks again.

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A police officer is not someone to take legal advise from when it is your ass in the sling, but good luck to you anyway.

Lets break this down. A switchblade in the eyes of California law doesn't only mean that you need a button to press in order to open the knife. You could have a plain old pocket knife that could be flicked open with the flick of the wrist to satisfy the State of California for a successful prosecution under 653K. Take into consideration, butterfly knives are considered switchblades under the statute in California, and they have no button to press in order to release the blade.

The blade length of the knife in question is 3.5". In CA, the blade length is over 2" for a switchblade. So the length of the blade so-far meets the definition.

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653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

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Quoting Who'sThatGuy

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A police officer is not someone to take legal advise from when it is your ass in the sling, but good luck to you anyway.

Lets break this down. A switchblade in the eyes of California law doesn't only mean that you need a button to press in order to open the knife. You could have a plain old pocket knife that could be flicked open with the flick of the wrist to satisfy the State of California for a successful prosecution under 653K. Take into consideration, butterfly knives are considered switchblades under the statute in California, and they have no button to press in order to release the blade.

The blade length of the knife in question is 3.5". In CA, the blade length is over 2" for a switchblade. So the length of the blade so-far meets the definition.

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but critical to the determination is whether pushing the thumb pin instantly opens the blade or do you have push against the blade to overcome a design action that attempts to close the blade. If so, it is not a switchblade

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Quoting apk2001

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Not only did he have this very knife but he also verified it with his uncle who said it is not a switchblade. Thanks again.

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There you go. Taking the word of someone who has one and whose backed up by the word of his uncle is legal advice that's as good as gold.

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Quoting apk2001

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Hey Guys!
I was looking into getting a Gerber Propel Downgrade AO but was discouraged by the controversy over whether a spring assisted knife, that contains a thumb stud, is considered an automatic knife, or switchblade. As it says in the title, I live in Santa Barbara, California and was very interested in this knife. Additionally, if anyone has anything to comment about the knife, if its a good knife or not, please do.

Thanks for the support!

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Given that the video of the knife appears that to open it you must use your thumb and not through a mechanical device that releases the blade and locks it into position. This does not appear to be unlawful in CA pursuant to PC 653k. These are common types of knives offered for sale in CA.

I would not take a cop's advice on weapons laws.

Suit yourself, but since the video, the design, and the method of opening it is via a thumb tab, it does not appear to be illegal here.

And, yeah, the guys that enforce the laws and were responsible for commercial enforcement (as I was) don't know squat about it. Yep. :rolleyes:

And, of course, since they are available in retail stores in CA is also kind of a clue.

EDIT TO ADD:

17235.
As used in this part, “switchblade knife” means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife, or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. “Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

From the video I have observed, this is the case. The resistance is overcome by use of the thumb stud (AND a thumb safety). As such, it does not appear to meet the definition of a switchblade.

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Quoting bcr229

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I would not take a cop's advice on weapons laws.

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So you suggest taking essentially layman’s statements regarding the legality but you ignore the guy who either in the field or as a supervisor or field personnel determined whether you would be arrested or not.

Hmm, and you’re saying the op is being foolish for listening to his friend?

Should you change your usernane to Mr Pot? You appear to be as black as you believe the op, Mr Kettle, is.

Even the Gerber full auto knives (which do very much fit the definition of switchblade) have the same safety. It's the fact you have to push the blade itself (or by the stud) past a certain point (prior to that it must auto close) before it springs open that uses the exemption.

Yep. It's the thumb tab that must be used to overcome the tension to open that makes it lawful. The safety is merely an additional element that is a non sequitor in CA, but is a noteworthy feature all the same.

While some attorneys may provide a different answer (I don’t believe they will as I believe op has recieved a correct answer here), ignoring the knowledge a well seasoned California LEO (not just a field officer but one who has supervised entire departments) who will be the guy who decides whether he or his troops should cite or arrest a person is pretty foolish. Carl has shown himself to be very knowledgable in the law, especially the application of California law. If I had to choose the advice from a lawyer I’ve never had discussions with before and Carl, concerning the question at hand, I would take Carls word on the matter. He’s a pretty sharp cookie and he understands the actual application of the laws, actually better than many lawyers, because he had to to be able to apply the laws properly. A cop ignorantly arresting people wrongly can cost a municipality millions of dollars and cause the charges to be tossed. It doesn’t do much good for a police force to seek charges against people that will walk away from those charges. It’s a waste of time and a waste of resources.

While there are cops that have the old cop attitude of they’re right because they’re cops, Carl has supported his position many times with anything from presentation of code to case law, whether it be state level or SCOTUS decisions.

Maybe you have a problem with cops in general. Many are quite ignorant of the laws they are hired to enforce (realistically I’ve run across lawyers not really any better). Sometimes you need to step back and look st the person rather than their place in life and society. I know Carl has sought education well beyond what any police force requires their hirees to possess. Shooting down advice because of where it came from is a prejudice that will not serve you well.

As to those that claim to be attorneys on that site; I’m not familiar with it myself but are those claiming to be attorneys actually vetted by the administration such that the claim is proven? Anybody can claim to be anything on the internet.