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What Happens After a Vacation Plan is Changed to PTO

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  • 01-01-2018, 08:17 AM
    tfctvonnie
    What Happens After a Vacation Plan is Changed to PTO
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: CA if vacation plan is changed to PTO, does employee have the right to be paid for the already ACCRUED vacation hours? if still working with the company and still not paid those ACCRUED vacation hours, is employer liable for penalty or what is the law violated???
  • 01-01-2018, 08:20 AM
    cbg
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    There is no law in California or any other state that requires an employer to pay out vacation while the employee is still working. You cannot lose those hours - they will have to be incorporated into your PTO. However, if you are still working for the company the employer is in violation of no laws and will incur no penalty if they do not pay out to you at once the previously accrued vacation hours.
  • 01-02-2018, 02:57 AM
    tfctvonnie
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    it's not that employer does not pay out at once, we are denied of those accrued hours because employer claimed since it's a new plan, everyone starts to zero, and it's true, because we no longer see the vacation hours in paystub indicating available accrued hours, instead we see PTO that has only 1.66 hours. and like you said, employer said the same thing that he did not violate any law, because for law for vacation does not exist.
  • 01-02-2018, 05:11 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    He's wrong there. California considers earned vacation hours to be the same as wages. They can't be taken away either because of a change in the rules or through some "use or lose" scheme. There's no difference between "vacation" and "PTO" under the law anyhow. The state considers them to be the same. Note that once "sick leave" is turned into PTO like that, it's subject to the same rules as vacation (where as straight sick leave doesn't need to be paid out on termination).

    So yes, they should allow you to at least take your accrued vacation time. Either they have to account for that separately until it is used up or they need to roll the balance into the PTO accrual (or they could pay it out).

    Information on wage complaints is here: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm
  • 01-02-2018, 05:37 AM
    cbg
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    Ron is correct - the employer is wrong. Earned time in CA cannot be lost; time once earned cannot be taken away. He CAN incorporate the time into your PTO and not pay it out in cash, but he cannot just eliminate it.

    Contact the DLSE. They'll set him straight.
  • 01-02-2018, 08:43 PM
    tfctvonnie
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    that's my understanding as well, that accrued hours cannot be forfeited or use or lose policy is against the law, but of course in not a lawyer or neither the other employees, that s why when were told by employer that he violated no laws, we just look down because we thought he may be right. and since we have limited or no knowledge at all about laws and regulations, no one dares to take the stand. this happened july 2016 and none received any payments with those accrued vacation hours. we did received payments with PTO though not as much because it just started accruing july 2016. without citing the law thats been violated, employees are unarmed to at least what to discuss with employer.
  • 01-03-2018, 05:17 AM
    free9man
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    You tried discussing it and he flat out lied to you.

    You don't have to take any stand with him or present him with anything. As cbg said, contact the DLSE and make a report. They will let him know he's breaking the law.
  • 01-06-2018, 01:11 PM
    tfctvonnie
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    if I made a complaint at DLSE, is it only applicable to my situation alone, what about those other employees who have same issue like mine? is it better to retain a lawyer to be able to use the PAGA provisions?
  • 01-06-2018, 01:38 PM
    cbg
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    This is not a PAGA-type claim. If you'd all been laid off and not been paid your outstanding vacation, that would be one thing. But as of right now, as I told you initially (before you made the details clear) he's got no obligation to pay anything out while you're all still employed. You haven't technically lost anything yet since it's not owed to you yet; it's a paper loss that can be restored with the stroke of a pen. I promise you, the DLSE will get his attention - they don't mess around, that bunch. Remind me sometime to tell you about the time I had an employee lie and say I hadn't paid out her vacation at termination - I was able to provide all manner of proof that I had, indeed, paid her but they pursued me until I was almost ready to pay her again just to get them off my back. It wasn't until the employee herself acknowledged that she had been paid what was owed that they let go of the bit and even then there was an element of "You got away with it this time but don't let it happen again" to it. Got away with what? I paid her everything she was owed when it was owed and she LIED about it.

    So don't imagine that the DLSE will let the matter drop.
  • 01-06-2018, 02:35 PM
    eerelations
    Re: Vacation Plan Changed to Pto
    Check out OP's posting history.
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