Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
I agree that I might be getting off easy. I did have to spend $800 on the paralegal and $435 on the filing. I was told by a local attorney that the initial retainer fee would be $4,300.00 if I hired him. To steal a famous quote: Walk softly and hide the stick, or something like that. No offense to the attorney's out there but I am hoping to avoid being a client. Thanks again!
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
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WhoDonnit
...I am hoping to avoid being a client.
As do most of us, however don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish!
Spending possibly a few hundred dollars would be worth the peace-of-mind as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, you can also just maintain the status quo and deal with her scheduling issues.
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
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LegalWriter
Neither of the cases you cited Tax are dispositive or even relevant by any means.
I don’t disagree with that. I only cited one case and I expressly stated that it was in the criminal context and thus a court in a family law dispute might not apply the same rationale. But the Family Code section I cited certainly is relevant, and thus my caution about changing locks without consulting an attorney.
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budwad
The problem with lawyers ( and please don't that this the wrong way) is that a consult about changing the locks when there is no indication that there would be a problem with changing the locks is not worth a $500 or $600 bill for an answer when the parties are agreeing and working out the settlement on their own. It would only be a problem if the parties in the divorce are not agreeable on the spouse getting their property.
The problem with at least some nonattorneys (and please don’t take this the wrong way) is that (1) they often have an overly simplistic view of the law and (2) tend to be pennywise and dollar foolish in wanting to avoid paying for legal advice. They thus do things like you suggest in changing the locks without first consulting an attorney thinking that it cannot possibly be a big deal. While in some cases that turns out all right, in others it blows up in their face when the other party makes a big deal out of it and then it ends up costing them far more later than they would have spent getting some sound legal advice up front. FC § 753 says that “neither spouse may be excluded from the other’s dwelling.” On its face it sets no limitations on that access; it doesn't say only when access is agreed upon, only when the spouse residing in the home is present, or anything else. Thus changing the locks and not giving her the key certainly could run the risk of excluding her from the dwelling when she wishes to enter and could end up creating a problem in the divorce proceeding that costs him a lot more to defend than had he got legal advice before doing it. I do not practice family law in California and cannot say for sure if his plan will cause him any trouble. As you are not an attorney at all, let alone one practicing family law in California, you are also not in a position to say with certainty he’d be ok. It’s his choice whether to take the risk without the legal advice. But I counsel against doing that.
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
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WhoDonnit
I appreciate all of the comments and responses. I had not idea that this would be such an interesting subject. I did search Google for answers before I posted here and the consensus on Google posts was "don't do it". I have a friend that is going through a long and arduous divorce and when he left his wife changed all of the locks and he is afraid to go back. He was trying to tell me that I could change the locks but I think that his attorney told him to stay away just to prevent potential law enforcement action. We are still cordial but it is driving me nuts that she is preventing me from leaving by constantly changing her schedule of "stopping by". This morning she texted me that she wasn't going to make it at lunch time but maybe after work. I replied "I am thinking Tuesday" and she replied "No, after work". So I am afraid to leave.....
When she does come I am going to ask her to commit to a fixed schedule for next week. Maybe I'll will lead her to believe that I am changing the locks but won't really change them. I will see how receptive she is to a schedule. I believe that she is trying to keep secret her new boyfriend and has only told her mother and doesn't want anybody else to know right now. She also does not want to spend any money, didn't even file a response to the divorce filing as it would cost her $435.00. So maybe she will "go along" with a fixed schedule. Thanks again for all of the advise.
Why do you have to be there when she comes to pick up her stuff?
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
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llworking
Why do you have to be there when she comes to pick up her stuff?
She could certainly show up unannounced when she knows the OP is at work or otherwise away, so I'd like to know the answer to that as well.
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
I want to be here because I no longer trust her. She has been lying to me and I now know that for sure. I feel compelled to be here and it is as simple as that.
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
So how do you know she hasn't been showing up when you're not home?
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
I work from home and she works 8:00 until 5:00 with lunch at noon. I pretty much am home most of the time since this began.
Re: At What Point Can You Change the Locks on the Marital Home
If you do change the locks, and she does force entry, do not expect the police to get involved. They - and the DA - will almost certainly look at this as a civil matter, at least until a court has decided to finalize any decrees and distribution of community property.
Has she turned in her keys to you? Is she willing to sign a document agreeing that she no longer resides there and relinquishes any claim to entry? Better to seek the advice of legal counsel now than run the risk of this becoming an ugly mess later.
Re: At What Point Can I Change Locks
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Taxing Matters
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The problem with at least some nonattorneys (and please don’t take this the wrong way) is that (1) they often have an overly simplistic view of the law and (2) tend to be pennywise and dollar foolish in wanting to avoid paying for legal advice. They thus do things like you suggest in changing the locks without first consulting an attorney thinking that it cannot possibly be a big deal. While in some cases that turns out all right, in others it blows up in their face when the other party makes a big deal out of it and then it ends up costing them far more later than they would have spent getting some sound legal advice up front. FC § 753 says that “neither spouse may be excluded from the other’s dwelling.” On its face it sets no limitations on that access; it doesn't say only when access is agreed upon, only when the spouse residing in the home is present, or anything else. Thus changing the locks and not giving her the key certainly could run the risk of excluding her from the dwelling when she wishes to enter and could end up creating a problem in the divorce proceeding that costs him a lot more to defend than had he got legal advice before doing it. I do not practice family law in California and cannot say for sure if his plan will cause him any trouble. As you are not an attorney at all, let alone one practicing family law in California, you are also not in a position to say with certainty he’d be ok. It’s his choice whether to take the risk without the legal advice. But I counsel against doing that.
You strike me as a very competent attorney that works hard for his clients in a timely fashion and gets the job done. But lets face it, not every attorney is you.
I have had instances where I have hired an attorney to something simple and it takes months to accomplish. I have had law suits dismissed for lack of action because the attorney representing me did not do his job. And I have had attorneys from a university constitutional law clinic represent me along with 5 other defendants pro bono and get the case dismissed in a matter of weeks. I have seen attorneys take cases in an area of the law they normally don't practice and screw up it up. I have had to coach (yes, coach) an attorney hired by our town on what discovery was needed and what should be in the interrogatories in a multi million dollar suit between towns. He was simply incompetent. He failed to plea a competent counterclaim/s or cross claims where there was a cause of action. We lost and he was later disbarred. Real estate closings were not a problem but he didn't know sh*t from shinola about litigation or law.
My divorce attorney (flat fee) and the law clinic attorneys were competent and fast. No complaints there.
So it's not about a simplistic view of the law that I have or a tendency to be pennywise when it comes to getting advise from an attorney. Not everyone can afford the fee to get the advise and there is no guarantee that the information will be of benefit. And let's again face it, being an attorney is as much about running a business as it is in serving the public. All you have to do is watch the barrage of all the TV commercials from law firms soliciting business about every cause of action there is.
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llworking
Why do you have to be there when she comes to pick up her stuff?
Because not everyone is trustworthy and possession is nine tenths of the law.
My Ex and I spent weeks dividing up possessions and determining what was mine or hers before the marriage and what we acquired together. We had antique collections, books, housewares, and many other things that had to be divided. She boxed her stuff because she was moving. She requested that I not be there when she moved. I trusted her and agreed not to be home on the day of the move. Well it didn't work out the way I thought it would.
On the day of the move, she took many, many things that were not hers. She took books, photo albums, record albums, all my sheet music, camping equipment, tools, and many other things that we agreed belonged to me. She even took the pedigree to our dog that passed away and many other documents that I can't replace.
Over the next few years, I found that she had taken many other things that she should not have taken.
That is why OP should be home when she comes for her stuff.