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Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease

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  • 11-19-2017, 10:32 AM
    gardening123
    Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: PA

    Hello. 3 years ago, my girlfriend added me to her lease at the apartment where we currently live. Actually the landlord added me, but suffice to say that she and I are in a lease agreement with the landlord.

    The lease renews in January 2018. My girlfriend just told me she doesn’t want to renew the lease with me as she wants to move out, have time apart and live alone for awhile. Ok I can live with that, but the problem is that I really can’t afford the apartment on my own when the lease renews (rent went up 7% and my hours are cut back), so if I can’t qualify, I will have to move out.

    I am soooo pissed at my girlfriend for getting me in this position. She prob. Knew that I couldn’t afford to stay if she moved out and I feel it was just her way of screwing me over! She told me she will give me the opportunity to apply for the lease on my own first, and that if I either choose not to, or can’t get approved on my own, she will likely apply on her own, meaning she is in effect technically kicking me out and victimizing me! I now only have two months to find a new place to live! Can’t I do something to stop her from refusing to re-sign the lease OR can I legally force her to sign up for another year so I can continue living here? There has to be some loophole here. I left an apartment to live with her and I feel like she is taking advantage of me. Now I can’t get my old apartment back. This whole thing is so unfair to me. Please help!
  • 11-19-2017, 10:51 AM
    jk
    Re: Lease Questions / Possible Tort Suit
    You wanting to hold her captive is a bit on the scary side. I think I see why she wants time without you for awhile.

    No, you have no legal means to force her to remain your cotenant.

    btw; the fact you moved in with her three years ago pretty much kills your argument she planned this.
  • 11-19-2017, 11:27 AM
    gardening123
    Re: Lease Questions / Possible Tort Suit
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    Grow up and get a pair.

    You wanting to hold her captive is a bit on the scary side. I think I see why she wants time without you for awhile.

    No, you have no legal means to force her to remain your cotenant.


    btw; the fact you moved in with her three years ago pretty much kills your argument she planned this.

    I’m not saying that she planned it, but it seems like she possibly is doing it just to be mean. And actually we have been discussing moving in together for 3 years, but it was only in June of 2016 that I have actually lived with her. So that is less than two years, which makes me think I can still try to sue her civility for ruining my chances at getting my old apt. back.

    She has pretty much been paying 90% of the rent as well since I moved in (her choice totally; I never forced her) because I am trying to start a music career. Over the past 2-3 months, she has been hinting at being tired of supporting me financially by paying most of the rent, and putting up with my crazy hours. True we have our interpersonal disputes. I feel like she let me move in to “try it out”, but now she is tired of me and dumping me, which really ticks me off because I have been working at least 2-3 days a week most of the time - it’s not like I’m a deadbeat! And, It’s not that I don’t have income, but she KNOWS for sure that I pretty much won’t be able to stay here because I make way less than her (thus my claim of victimhood is properly established).

    True, I did leave my old apartment when my lease expired and I voluntarily moved in with her. We completed half of the old lease together and then we jointly renewed for this year, but it expires in Jan 2018, and that’s when the S&$/ hits the fan cause she’s leaving me high and dry.

    I detect a bit of sexism here, I wonder if she was the starving artist and I the man was a let’s say “Wall Street banker” would the courts look at it different?

    Anyway, I figured I might have a case since she raised my standard of living to this new place and now I don’t want to have to get a part time job and go back to my smaller apartment, which now, thanks to her, has been rented to someone else !
  • 11-19-2017, 11:29 AM
    jk
    Re: Lease Questions / Possible Tort Suit
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    I’m not saying that she planned it, but it seems like she possibly is doing it just to be mean. And actually we have been discussing moving in together for 3 years, but it was only in June of 2016 that I have actually lived with her. So that is less than two years, which makes me think I can still try to sue her civility for ruining my chances at getting my old apt. back.

    She has pretty much been paying 90% of the rent as well since I moved in (her choice totally; I never forced her) because I am trying to start a music career. It’s not that I don’t have income, but she KNOWS for sure that I pretty much won’t be able to stay here because I make way less than her (thus my claim of victimhood is properly established).

    True, I did leave my old apartment when my lease expired and I voluntarily moved in with her. We completed half of the old lease together and then we jointly renewed for this year, but it expires in Jan 2018, and that’s when the S&$/ hits the fan cause she’s leaving me high and dry.

    I detect a bit of sexism here, I wonder if she was the starving artist and I the man was a let’s say “Wall Street banker” would the courts look at it different?

    Anyway, I figured I might have a case since she raised my standard of living to this new place and now I don’t want to have to get a part time job and go back to my smaller apartment, which now, thanks to her, has been rented to someone else !


    Ok, even if she is doing it to be mean;

    it doesn’t matter. She has no obligation to provide you housing or assist you in obtaining housing.

    Grow a pair man. You’re making all men look bad here.
  • 11-19-2017, 11:50 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Lease Questions / Possible Tort Suit
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    makes me think I can still try to sue her civility for ruining my chances at getting my old apt. back.

    She's breaking up with you. It happens. You have no legal recourse and certainly no leverage to compel her to do anything for you.

    You have almost two months to find cheaper place. Get off your ass and do it and stop whining.

    I've had families with children, dogs, and furniture move out of my rentals overnight.
  • 11-21-2017, 07:33 PM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Well I found out some good and not so good information the other day. I spoke with the leasing manager. He said that there is no way she can stay without me. Because the lease is in both of our names now! So, she would have to State in writing she wishes to vacate in order to get me to leave. Thank god, at least I have that in my corner. But now, I have to qualify on my own income wise to stay and that might be a stretch, but at least I will get first shot at keeping the place. Screw her, she can move out! But if I don’t qualify on my own and she does (and I’m pretty sure she will) unfortunately I will have to leave at the end of the lease.

    Another interesting thing is that she had paid the security deposit prior to me moving in when the lease was in her name, but when she allowed me to move in that security deposit was transferred to both of us, meaning both our names will be on the check so I get half of it, haha! Now she did make me sign a contract when I moved stating that the security deposit was hers, and I did sign it but I prob can beat her in small claims court because she knows I’m a fighter.

    So maybe now I can use that as leverage to convince her to sign up again so I can stay here.

    So since my name now being on that security deposit refund along with hers is now my ace in the hole, do you think a separate “roommate contract” she asked me to sign last year where I acknowledged the security deposit was hers regardless of how the landlord cuts the check, would hold up in court? I mean, yeah I did sign it but I don’t think it’s notarized so it’s probably not worth the paper it’s written on in our State. What do you think?
  • 11-21-2017, 07:39 PM
    jk
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    You already said she was giving you the opportunity to stay there, if you qualified so your victory is a hollow victory.

    As to the notarized contract: sorry but all a notary does is attest to the person isnwho they claim to be. The lack of the signature makes it nonless enforceable.

    If the landlord makes the error of issuing the deposit check in two names she would have a valid suit against you to be able to retain all of it, even without the seemingly very enforceable contract saying the deposit is hers.
  • 11-21-2017, 07:52 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    So maybe now I can use that as leverage to convince her to sign up again so I can stay here.

    Is she an idiot? Because if she's not, she'll recognize very quickly that it would be far more sensible to let you try to steal half of her deposit than it would be to risk having to pay your rent in the future.
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    So since my name now being on that security deposit refund along with hers is now my ace in the hole, do you think a separate “roommate contract” she asked me to sign last year where I acknowledged the security deposit was hers regardless of how the landlord cuts the check, would hold up in court?

    Why wouldn't it? She would present the agreement and you would tell the truth -- that it was her money and that you signed that agreement to let her have her money at the end of the lease -- right? So it's a no-brainer for the judge.
  • 12-06-2017, 08:18 AM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    I see some of the non-constructive posts were deleted, but I have a follow up question. Our lease is jointly and separately liability, and we have to have a signed letter from both of us that we want to renew for another year, or a signed notice to vacate from both of us, or it will renew month to month.

    My girlfriend gave her 60 days notice in advance that she wishes to non-renew (and she thinks she will be able to walk Scott free lol), but I refused to sign saying I wanted to vacate - is that my loophole? Looks like she is now on the hook for the month to month lease forever??? I still don’t know if I qualify as the leasing office is ignoring my calls. What should my next step be?
  • 12-06-2017, 08:30 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    If you want to remain in residence as a month-to-month tenant consistent with your lease and pay 100% of the rent, you may do so.

    If you remain in residence and default on the rent, your landlord may try to use that provision in the lease to pursue your ex- for the rent that you owe -- or not. That will be entirely up to your landlord. It does not give you a basis to recover even a penny from your ex-, and to the extent that she covers your rent debt she could pursue you for indemnification.
  • 12-06-2017, 08:31 AM
    llworking
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    I see some of the non-constructive posts were deleted, but I have a follow up question. Our lease is jointly and separately liability, and we have to have a signed letter from both of us that we want to renew for another year, or a signed notice to vacate from both of us, or it will renew month to month.

    My girlfriend gave her 60 days notice in advance that she wishes to non-renew (and she thinks she will be able to walk Scott free lol), but I refused to sign saying I wanted to vacate - is that my loophole? Looks like she is now on the hook for the month to month lease forever??? I still don’t know if I qualify as the leasing office is ignoring my calls. What should my next step be?

    Your next step should be finding a new place to live instead of trying every which way to try to find a way to scrounge off her.
  • 12-06-2017, 08:32 PM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    If you want to remain in residence as a month-to-month tenant consistent with your lease and pay 100% of the rent, you may do so.

    If you remain in residence and default on the rent, your landlord may try to use that provision in the lease to pursue your ex- for the rent that you owe -- or not. That will be entirely up to your landlord. It does not give you a basis to recover even a penny from your ex-, and to the extent that she covers your rent debt she could pursue you for indemnification.

    Well that’s not exactly what is happening, but I see your point. I just don’t want to move, it’s a hassle, and I feel like she’s being vindictive and I want leverage. Plus she signed the lease and so did I, so I figure I use the leverage I have to make her stay or to hold over her head so she’ll fear eviction if I don’t pay. I feel like many posters here would do the same thing in my shoes, but you’re not saying it publicly.

    I don’t see how she could ever sue me if I stay month to month and default. BOTH of our names are on the original lease. I feel like she’s prob. Got no choice, even if she tells the LL she wants to non-renew at the end of this lease. But I am scared she could sue me if I stay month to month and default and she gets caught up in the evictions. I mean, I would try to pay the rent, but I feel like if she knows I might mess up she will be stuck at least trying to help me out, which is only fair.
  • 12-06-2017, 09:46 PM
    llworking
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    Well that’s not exactly what is happening, but I see your point. I just don’t want to move, it’s a hassle, and I feel like she’s being vindictive and I want leverage. Plus she signed the lease and so did I, so I figure I use the leverage I have to make her stay or to hold over her head so she’ll fear eviction if I don’t pay. I feel like many posters here would do the same thing in my shoes, but you’re not saying it publicly.

    I don’t see how she could ever sue me if I stay month to month and default. BOTH of our names are on the original lease. I feel like she’s prob. Got no choice, even if she tells the LL she wants to non-renew at the end of this lease. But I am scared she could sue me if I stay month to month and default and she gets caught up in the evictions. I mean, I would try to pay the rent, but I feel like if she knows I might mess up she will be stuck at least trying to help me out, which is only fair.

    You are disgusting. I am not normally that blunt, but you seriously are disgusting. I can understand about it being a hassle to move but you want this woman to be responsible for how you prefer to live even though she no longer wishes to live with you. That is just crass.
  • 12-06-2017, 10:04 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    You guys ... your troll-dar just failed you.

    This is a repeat offender.
  • 12-07-2017, 11:01 AM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    You guys ... your troll-dar just failed you.

    This is a repeat offender.

    No not a troll this is a real situation. Thanks for not adding much to the conversation.
  • 12-09-2017, 07:13 PM
    li/<o
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Honestly this blew my mind when I read this I am sorry, but your at the wrong and shes in the right. If you want to stay in the same exact place than you can just be responsible get a second job or whatever it takes to pay your rent and bills and move on. Their is a reason she is leaving you in the first place as you mentioned she seems to be basically supporting you here and can't deal with it no more.

    Going to court is going to make you look bad. A judge is a referee, but he can also go by common sense. If he was to read this would side with your ex girlfriend. When my dad had to evict a lying crazy lady the judge basically didn't buy whatever she was saying. Her argument made no sense and gave my dad judgement to evict her in the end (note this comes from CA a pro tenant state).

    As someone mentioned this seems like a troll thread, if its not than grow a pair and move on. Let her do her thing and you do your thing. It doesnt seem your music career is working maybe you need to get something that will bring $$$. If you want to still try it than get another job to pay your bills and still try to pursue your music career.

    As mentioned theirs a reason she is leaving you. Your arent acting like a responsible man this is suppose to be a 50/50 you pay half the bills she pays half even if she said she didn't mind paying 90 percent of the rent your suppose to help out in other ways to make up for that. Thats what a responsible adult does.
  • 12-16-2017, 12:04 AM
    souperdave
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    What should my next step be?

    Seeking professional help.

    That's the short answer. You're more than two tacos shy of a combo platter, so any longer of an answer would overtax your pysche.

    Jus' sayin'.
  • 12-16-2017, 07:25 AM
    cbg
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    I want leverage.

    You have none.
  • 12-16-2017, 01:25 PM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    I want leverage.

    You have none.

    Not true, just not the kind I want. I can refuse to sign the vacate letter, and even if she leaves it will be month to month. She won’t be free of the lease. So if I stay for a few months and then stop paying the rent, she will either have to start helping me or she will be wrapped up in the eviction. I have tons of leverage. Apparently the landlord wants me to apply on my own with her giving notice to vacate, but they can’t evict me right away. I won’t apply until the very last minute, unless they force me. And honesty I don’t think they can even do that. Unless she wants to get her credit all messed up with an eviction, she will probably have to help me out to pay the rent.

    Quote:

    Quoting souperdave
    View Post
    Seeking professional help.

    That's the short answer. You're more than two tacos shy of a combo platter, so any longer of an answer would overtax your pysche.

    Jus' sayin'.

    You know that’s really uncalled for. How do you know I don’t have ADHD or PTSD or some other kind of mental issues? Maybe I do maybe I don’t but to go around on a public forum bashing me for being crazy when I’m actually looking for real help, geez why all the abuse buddy? Further, the taco analogy could be seen as patronizing to Mexican-Americans. Check your privilege!
  • 12-16-2017, 01:36 PM
    cbg
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    You don't have anything like the leverage you think you have. I think you'll find that matters won't proceed exactly as you anticipate.

    And regardless of whether you have any kind of mental issue or not, you are one of the most despicable human beings it has ever been my misfortune to encounter.
  • 12-16-2017, 02:05 PM
    jk
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    Not true, just not the kind I want. I can refuse to sign the vacate letter, and even if she leaves it will be month to month. She won’t be free of the lease. So if I stay for a few months and then stop paying the rent, she will either have to start helping me or she will be wrapped up in the eviction. I have tons of leverage. Apparently the landlord wants me to apply on my own with her giving notice to vacate, but they can’t evict me right away. I won’t apply until the very last minute, unless they force me. And honesty I don’t think they can even do that. Unless she wants to get her credit all messed up with an eviction, she will probably have to help me out to pay the rent.

    You know that’s really uncalled for. How do you know I don’t have ADHD or PTSD or some other kind of mental issues? Maybe I do maybe I don’t but to go around on a public forum bashing me for being crazy when I’m actually looking for real help, geez why all the abuse buddy? Further, the taco analogy could be seen as patronizing to Mexican-Americans. Check your privilege!

    i suspect you are going to have a very big surprise come the new year. Your claims are simply wrong.

    Enjoy outdoor living in the winter in PA since based on your statement and actions, that’s where you’ll be.
  • 12-16-2017, 05:24 PM
    gardening123
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    i suspect you are going to have a very big surprise come the new year. Your claims are simply wrong.

    Enjoy outdoor living in the winter in PA since based on your statement and actions, that’s where you’ll be.

    I don’t know why you would say that. The leasing office told me that even though she is moving out, unless we both move out, the lease will go month to month AND she can’t get her security deposit back until I move out. The lease will go month to month. Albeit at a higher rate, which sucks. Even though she is moving out to a new address, she will still be financially tied to this month to month arrangement and if I get behind she will either have to help me or if I get evicted I guess the landlord will be coming after her too.

    Now, she is moving out on January 7th, which is when the lease renews. She’s taking her things I’m staying here with mine. I guess the landlord wants me reapply on my own to see if I qualify, but if I just say I want to go month to month I think they will go for it. She can complain but there isn’t anything she can do really as far as I can tell. The lease will be month to month and I will pay what I can when I can, and maybe she will chip in to help. She pretty much isn’t talking to me at this point so negotiations are kind of hard. But to your point I do t see any way that I will be evicted or out on the street. The month to month clause is my savings grace.
  • 12-16-2017, 07:22 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    If the lease provides that the security deposit won't be refunded to her until you both vacate, then that's what she agreed would be the case when she signed the lease.

    Your notion that the landlord has to evict her after she gives proper notice and moves out, merely because you don't move out and default on the rent? Nothing but a fantasy. Once her notice period ends, she's no longer a tenant.
  • 12-16-2017, 10:00 PM
    souperdave
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    A word to your ex.

    RUN!

    FAR.

    FAST!

    That's like three. But who's counting?
  • 12-16-2017, 10:27 PM
    Lill1
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    I imagine she is getting restraining order against you which will relieve her from any obligations to a so called lease.
  • 12-16-2017, 10:36 PM
    souperdave
    Re: Can You Make Your Ex- Agree to Renew a Joint Lease
    Quote:

    Quoting gardening123
    View Post
    ......the taco analogy could be seen as patronizing to Mexican-Americans. Check your privilege!

    My bad! You're a few entrees short of a buffet. That's more like disparaging, not patronage.

    Although it could be construed as some sorta privilege, it's more like threads of this ilk are The Borg and I'm a defenseless Starfleet crewman........"RESISTANCE IS FUTILE".

    I would derive way more entertainment out of you going around on a public forum bashing you when you look for "real help".

    It's not abuse.

    It's snark. :cool:
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