Custody Following Newly Established Paternity

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Florida.

Good Morning, everyone.

I’m going to post my story, but I want to make clear that I understand that child support and custody are two separate issues.

My son turns 3 tomorrow. In March of 2017, I filed for child support.

My sons father had never met him. Our contact throughout his life up to the time that I filed had been minimal. He had dodged me, and refused to provide any time of contact information. We had roughly 2 conversations since my pregnancy.

Paternity has been established, and we are set to go to court in two weeks.

After paternity had been established, Dad met our son for the first time. We spent about 1 hour at the park.

Since then, I have offered two separate dates to meet with him so him and our son can spend time together. He ignored me.

Yesterday, I reached out to him to ask him if he would like to see his son on his birthday. This resulted in an argument, as I refused to let him take my son for the day without me.

I am (obviously) being represented by the State for child support, but I have an attorney on standby for custody.

Dad says he will get 50/50, and that I need to “get used to it”. I have never told him that he couldn’t see our son, but per the advice of the attorneys that I’ve spoken to, they’ve told me that it’s important not to set a precedent and allow him to take our son without me present. If he wants more, he needs to file.

My question is this: if he takes me to court for a 50/50 arrangement (overnights) to clearly lower his obligation in child support...is that likely?

Ideally, a temporary supervised visitation plan is what I want. I want them to actually get to know each other, and allow my son to recognize the difference between this man and a stranger at the grocery store. Is he blowing smoke? I’m sure he’s angry because I’m requesting retro, but this obviously scares me.

He has bragged about not being on his company’s payroll, and said that he “doesn’t care” about the legal issues that arise; he is not going to pay me more than he believes I deserve. He has not contributed one cent to our son, and feels justified in doing so.

Thank you for the advice.

Florida has been moving forward with the idea that a 50/50 timeshare is best for the child unless it can actually be proven that it's not, even if a step-up plan has to be included at first and even if the child is very young.

(Google "men's divorce forums" or something ... start reading Florida threads)

You need to be prepared for Dad getting what he wants unless he does something colossally stupid between now and then.

All I want is a step up plan established in the beginning. I have been trying to encourage a relationship between the two of them, and he ignores me.

He is refusing to see our son unless he takes him on his own.

So, basically everything I have done for our son for the past 3 years is going down the tube because dad decided he wants in upon me filing for support. We can abandon our children for 3 years at a time and come get 50/50 whenever we want?

That’s painful.

Does this 50/50 include every aspect of custody? Decision making, etc, etc?

Joint legal (decision making) is the norm in every state. A real 50/50 timeshare is not typically the norm in most states ... but in Florida, if a father does want 50/50, there typically needs to be a solid reason why he shouldn't. It's not yet the default position by statute, but I'd expect it to become so in the next few years and in practice it's what both parents need to expect when they go to court.

Why did you say that "everything I have done ... is going down the tube"?

One more thing. No matter what the court orders, if he disappears for another extended period of time you can absolutely go back to court and request the order be modified to reflect the status quo.

He won’t disappear again. This all boils down to money, and he wants to keep his child support obligation minimalized.

I want supervised visitation in the beginning, but it sounds like I should just lay down and let him take our son (that he has spent one whole hour with in three years) half the time and spend my money on an attorney elsewhere.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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He won’t disappear again. This all boils down to money, and he wants to keep his child support obligation minimalized.

I want supervised visitation in the beginning, but it sounds like I should just lay down and let him take our son (that he has spent one whole hour with in three years) half the time and spend my money on an attorney elsewhere.

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Don't do that. Do not make that kind of decision because of what one person on an internet forum has to say. Consult a local attorney. In my opinion, the fact that he has shown absolutely no interest in the child at all until you filed for child support is one reason why a judge is unlikely to actually give him 50/50. Its quite possible that the judge will believe he only wants 50/50 to reduce child support, and a judge will NOT like that.

I don’t see how a judge couldn’t see it that way. There has been no contact. He didn’t even know our son was a BOY until he was 18 months old during a conversation initiated by me.

I had to hunt down his contact information to file for support in the first place. He avoided me at all costs.

He has told me that he’s not going to pay me more than what HE deems appropriate, and he doesn’t care what legal ramifications occur for non payment. He wants in because he doesn’t want to pay.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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I don’t see how a judge couldn’t see it that way. There has been no contact. He didn’t even know our son was a BOY until he was 18 months old during a conversation initiated by me.

I had to hunt down his contact information to file for support in the first place. He avoided me at all costs.

He has told me that he’s not going to pay me more than what HE deems appropriate, and he doesn’t care what legal ramifications occur for non payment. He wants in because he doesn’t want to pay.

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What exactly are your goals here?

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Quoting llworking

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Don't do that. Do not make that kind of decision because of what one person on an internet forum has to say. Consult a local attorney. In my opinion, the fact that he has shown absolutely no interest in the child at all until you filed for child support is one reason why a judge is unlikely to actually give him 50/50. Its quite possible that the judge will believe he only wants 50/50 to reduce child support, and a judge will NOT like that.

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ROFL. I suggest you actually take the time to research the current state of father's rights and custody in Florida.

Dogmatique,
My goals in this situation are to have a step up plan, and give my son an opportunity to actually know his face, and who he is.

I want them to have a relationship, and I know that splitting custody is the end result. My main focus at this point is the initial period of time after he files for custody. I want an adjustment period for the sake of my son. I don’t want him to have the same amount of time at his house and mine when he doesn’t even know this man. I want there to be supervised visits, working our way into a 50/50 custody arrangement.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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I don’t see how a judge couldn’t see it that way. There has been no contact. He didn’t even know our son was a BOY until he was 18 months old during a conversation initiated by me.

I had to hunt down his contact information to file for support in the first place. He avoided me at all costs.

He has told me that he’s not going to pay me more than what HE deems appropriate, and he doesn’t care what legal ramifications occur for non payment. He wants in because he doesn’t want to pay.

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If he doesn't pay the amount of child support the court orders You need to take him back to court on contempt. They can garnish his pay checks and keep his tax refunds if he refuses to pay.

He is bragging about not being on his company’s payroll.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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What exactly are your goals here?



ROFL. I suggest you actually take the time to research the current state of father's rights and custody in Florida.

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You can laugh if you want to, but no one should make that kind of life changing decision based on just one stranger's opinion.

OP has apparently already consulted with at least one attorney.

Yes, I have. At this point, there’s been nothing filed in the custody area, which is where I will be using her.

If it’s worth anything, we live in a “small town” in Florida.

I don’t see how any judge could ever throw my son into a 50/50 arrangement overnight without allowing some type of period where my three year old can at least know what this man looks like...how is that helpful to ANYONE besides dad? How is that “the best interest”? It’s not. It’s traumatic.

He has known about our son since the day I found out I was pregnant and dipped out because he didn’t want to pay for him.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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Dogmatique,
My goals in this situation are to have a step up plan, and give my son an opportunity to actually know his face, and who he is.

I want them to have a relationship, and I know that splitting custody is the end result. My main focus at this point is the initial period of time after he files for custody. I want an adjustment period for the sake of my son. I don’t want him to have the same amount of time at his house and mine when he doesn’t even know this man. I want there to be supervised visits, working our way into a 50/50 custody arrangement.

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Honestly that seems pretty reasonable - the father is a stranger to this child and through his own fault it sounds like. No one here knows what will happen in court - but I would think most judges would approve supervised visitation and build up to unsupervised as the child gets to know this person.

If I were you I'd go talk to a few different lawyers. Most give free consultations. I mean you don't buy the first car you see right? Shop around lawyers find one that works for you.

Well there we go. A stepped up plan to 50/50 sounds ideal!

Is this likely?

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Quoting MommyRN5

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Is this likely?

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That's a question for your local attorney as he or she will know what the judges have historically done.

What if dad makes no attempt to see our son after the child support hearing?

For example, let’s say he contributes to his court-ordered child support but does not see our son for 6 months through his own free will? Remember... I have been the one initiating visits together that he has ignored.

Will a judge take that into consideration? Just curious what type of effect that may have on all of this, if any.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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What if dad makes no attempt to see our son after the child support hearing?

For example, let’s say he contributes to his court-ordered child support but does not see our son for 6 months through his own free will? Remember... I have been the one initiating visits together that he has ignored.

Will a judge take that into consideration? Just curious what type of effect that may have on all of this, if any.

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If he chooses not to exercise his visitation then you will be able to take it back to court for a modification.

There isn’t a custody order in place to modify.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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What if dad makes no attempt to see our son after the child support hearing?

For example, let’s say he contributes to his court-ordered child support but does not see our son for 6 months through his own free will? Remember... I have been the one initiating visits together that he has ignored.

Will a judge take that into consideration? Just curious what type of effect that may have on all of this, if any.

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If dad asks for visitation in his petition, but then does not seek a temporary court order for visitation and sits numbly on his hands for six months while the case proceeds, then the court could interpret that as his not having actual interest in seeing the child.

If dad gets a temporary order for visitation then chooses not to show up for any of his scheduled visits, that would also be a factor that you could expect the court to consider when issuing a final order.

I’m sorry, I’m just very confused. There has been nothing filed for custody. We have a child support hearing next week, but dad has filed nothing in regard to custody..

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Quoting MommyRN5

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I’m sorry, I’m just very confused. There has been nothing filed for custody. We have a child support hearing next week, but dad has filed nothing in regard to custody..

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People are saying IF he files for custody and IF he gets a temporary visitation order and he doesn't exercise that visitation for six months until custody is decided then the court is unlikely to give him that visitation or custody.

I understand that. But my question is IF he doesn’t attempt to see our son or file anything now that paternity is established, will that have any impact on custody if he were to file in a year, for example.

Assuming he pays his child support obligation but doesn’t attempt to see our son.

I want to build up to 50/50, but I’m just trying to get a general idea of the outcomes of various scenarios.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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I understand that. But my question is IF he doesn’t attempt to see our son or file anything now that paternity is established, will that have any impact on custody if he were to file in a year, for example.

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If he does nothing, then no court will do anything unless you petition for a custody and visitation order.

If he does something, then the rest depends on what he does.

Ok. So, now that paternity has been established and he is the legal father, he could show no interest in our son for 6+ months, and walk into a courthouse when our son is 5 (for example) and get 50/50 timeshare? Is that correct?

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Quoting MommyRN5

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Ok. So, now that paternity has been established and he is the legal father, he could show no interest in our son for 6+ months, and walk into a courthouse when our son is 5 (for example) and get 50/50 timeshare? Is that correct?

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He can walk into a courthouse at any time he chooses before the child reaches the age of 18, and ask for anything from leaving custody with you with no visitation for himself to primary custody. What he gets will depend upon the facts as they exist at that time, and as they are proved in court.

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Quoting MommyRN5

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Ok. So, now that paternity has been established and he is the legal father, he could show no interest in our son for 6+ months, and walk into a courthouse when our son is 5 (for example) and get 50/50 timeshare? Is that correct?

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Could that happen? Yes, theoretically it could happen. However, just because something could happen doesn't mean that it will. The longer he goes showing no interest in the child the less likely it would be that he gets anything close to a 50/50 timeshare should he eventually decide to be interested in the child.

Thank you all for your help. I truly appreciate it.

My two cents, going through this as the Dad, under different circumstances (the mom in my case is a train wreck). The child is 3 now and has had normalcy in his life for 3 years, the Father didn't try to see the child. If you go to court, he would have to explain himself and show that there is some significant change that occured to change the childs "normal" schedule.

I would guess the best he would get is every other weekend, but I can see as the child isn't used to him or comfortable, it would start with supervised visits and ease into every other weekend. Just a guess, but what I've seen in all my time spent in court with my ex and hearing other trials before ours.

But... are you located in Florida?

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Quoting MommyRN5

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I understand that. But my question is IF he doesn’t attempt to see our son or file anything now that paternity is established, will that have any impact on custody if he were to file in a year, for example.

Assuming he pays his child support obligation but doesn’t attempt to see our son.

I want to build up to 50/50, but I’m just trying to get a general idea of the outcomes of various scenarios.

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If he files in a year and he hasn't made any attempts to see his kid and he doesn't show up when you give him time then that's going to hurt him in the long run when he files for custody or visitation.

It doesn't matter what he asks for - it doesn't mean he will get it. So if he's not filing for custody right now and he's not filing for visitation and he doesn't ask you for any visitation I can't see him getting 50/50 if he continues that for a year. Like the other poster said he would likely start out at supervised and could work his way up to 50/50.

I would go talk to a lawyer.

Dogmatique, do you have any thoughts?

I appreciate your brutal honesty, and you seem to be familiar with Florida. Wondering if you have any other things to contribute

Just wanted to follow up.

Judge ordered 25k in retro, and $250/week moving forward.

He has missed two payments so far, and has not said one single word to me since the court hearing nearly 3 months ago.