Can You Be Charged Daycare Expenses for Care Provided by Grandparents

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Pennsylvania

My ex and I separated about 4 months after my first daughter was born, we then officially divorced about a year after that. Ever since, she has made it her sworn duty to separate me from as much of my money as possible and also as many family members as she possibly can, more on that another time. One thing she very specifically said to me after we first separated was "I will bleed you dry". Once we separated, she was still on the fence about how to proceed with the relationship. At this time, we had an unofficial agreement for support which included a spreadsheet of the breakdown of when, where and how much money was spent and for what, which we split almost perfectly evenly.

During this "separation" period, her parents, both retired, offered (actually offered even before our child was born) to take care of her and be the daycare at no charge. As fate would have it, about 3 months after the initial separation, she decided that it was in her best interest to move on without me and dissolve the marriage. The real issue here is that all of a sudden, when she came to this epiphany, HER PARENTS miraculously started charging "us" for "daycare" to the tune of $800 per month, or $400 per month for her and I individually. I understand that people need to get paid but this is your first grandchild, who the hell does that? Anyway, flash forward almost 2 years and they are still charging and I am STILL on the hook for my half of it, which I am convinced, as is my lawyer and my new wife and any other family member who hasn't been corrupted by my ex, that this money is going right back into her pocket in some way or another... them using it to pay her bills, groceries, lawyer, etc.

So at this point, I am stuck with an extra $400 expense for the child support. We originally struck a deal whereby I payed $860 per month for CS. Then, I was out of work but collecting unemployment and was able to get the amount of CS down to about $720 a month, but just found a job again making decent money just as our next CS hearing came about and now I am on the hook for $950 per month for one child! Based on the calculations I've come up with using the state calculator, I should be paying in the neighborhood of $520-$580.

Having to pay so much extra on top of the upkeep of a home (rent, utilities) and the actual costs for raising a child for a completely separate home (which doesn't cost me $950!) is truly affecting our ability to have a good life for our kids and for them to have fun things to do and a few toys to play with instead of new clothes and shoes every week for her mother and my daughter at her mother's house. I'm basically paying twice for everything, two homes worth of clothes and toys, two lawyers, two mortgages/rents, double utilities. It's the day care that is killing me the most and I have no proof of anything "shady" so there is nothing I can do and I'm basically screwed until she starts going to school, right? Or is there...?

Where is the justice here?

You are going to likely be told that what the parents do with the money you give them is their business and if they want to gift the money to their daughter for expenses then they are free to do so.

But I do understand your frustration and I wonder if there is a way to be sure that the parents are declaring the money you give them for daycare expenses as income and paying taxes for same. This is not my forte, so it is just an idea and I have no clue whether it would even be a viable option for you. There will be other posters who come by who will be more knowledgeable about this topic and will be able to provide additional answers. I think this is a topic that comes up fairly often so you may be able to find answers from questions by other posters.

Also, if you believe the amount calculated for child support is incorrect you should file for a modification.

If she is being charged for daycare and she can prove that she is being charged you have to pay it if that's what the court order says. My daughter's daycare is $800 a month...but it is also a respite center and has nurses on staff. Now do I think my parents would do that much? No. But I would pay them something for taking care of my daughter daily.

You even state you have no proof of anything "shady" so until you do there is nothing you can do and you pay the amount ordered in the order.

Why did you agree to the $950 a month - or why didn't your lawyer say something? Also for two years you haven't done anything about the daycare if you think it's too much.

How are you paying for new clothes and shoes every week for your other child and not the ones who live with you? You are not paying twice for everything in any way. At all.

Thanks, readytoleave. It's not so much that the number is "wrong" per se, it's just that I severely disagree with the way the state calculates the number but mostly am irritated by the fake "daycare" costs incurred. I was wondering the same thing insofar as having to have them declare that money as income, I truly don't know if they are or not. One of the most... inhumane things about it is that I was told first hand that the parents both were worth "well over a million" dollars... yet they see fit to charge? How about them apples.

Why do you not ask that daycare be provided in a state licensed facility/home? Her parents would then have to comply with state regulations and inspections.

Thanks qwaspolk69,
She gives them a check so there is a paper trail and that gets deposited and then presumably goes back to the mother at some capacity. That's the only "proof", so to speak, that I have.

As far as agreeing to $950 a month, I did that because it was in my best interest to do so. If not, it would have gone through a lengthy litigation and I would have ended up eventually losing against a maternally biased system and have been ordered to pay closer to $1150, a number that HER lawyer came up with.

What I meant with the clothes is that her Grandmother, the mother of her MOTHER, the one that gets all my money, is the one who buys my child new brand name things constantly. Not a week goes by that this child literally does not have a new pair of shoes and at least one if not 2 outfits. I've seen new toys with a frequency of every 2 or 3 weeks as well. My concern is obviously not that my child is getting nice new things but the fact that these things are indirectly bought with my money and I have to give her hand me downs or recycled things and its much less likely she gets new anything at daddys house because he cant afford that and to pay mommy at the same time.

How long does a child have to wear the same outfit that doesn't fit before someone realizes there is a serious issue on the other parent. How many days is ok for a child to eat hot dogs or spaghetti or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, really? Know what I mean there?

You disagreeing with how the state calculates it doesn't matter. It's it what it is.

And regardless of how much they are worth they still deserve compensation for their time. My daughters daycare before she started kindergarten was nearly a 1000 a month. But she is at a facility with nurses and structured programs with certified teachers. Like I said, I understand your frustration, but if your child was at an actual facility you would likely be paying more then you do now. So it probably isn't worth the fight since you could end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Thanks okisnotok,

The reason I haven't done this, although I've considered it, is that based on my research, all preschools or preschool or daycare programs cost more than $800 a month around me. That wouldn't be a problem if my base wasn't already almost $600. I will barely be able to afford the $950 a month let alone changing her to a regular full time preschool and adding an extra $100 minimum on that.

Although, after reading your comment over a few times, I may have missed the meaning there and you may have been saying something to the effect of they would have to essentially be held to the same accountability as a state run facility. If that's the case, that would be great but there's one problem with that... the whole family is vindictive and all they would end up doing is... passing that savings on to me by way of increased "tuition".

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Quoting readytoleave

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You are going to likely be told that what the parents do with the money you give them is their business and if they want to gift the money to their daughter for expenses then they are free to do so.

But I do understand your frustration and I wonder if there is a way to be sure that the parents are declaring the money you give them for daycare expenses as income and paying taxes for same. This is not my forte, so it is just an idea and I have no clue whether it would even be a viable option for you. There will be other posters who come by who will be more knowledgeable about this topic and will be able to provide additional answers. I think this is a topic that comes up fairly often so you may be able to find answers from questions by other posters.

Also, if you believe the amount calculated for child support is incorrect you should file for a modification.

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There is absolutely no way to be sure that the grandparents are declaring the money. Its a waste of time to even go there. The grandparents are not a party to the case and their tax documents are private. A judge could NOT order them to produce tax documents.

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Quoting SadDaddy80

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Thanks qwaspolk69,
She gives them a check so there is a paper trail and that gets deposited and then presumably goes back to the mother at some capacity. That's the only "proof", so to speak, that I have.

As far as agreeing to $950 a month, I did that because it was in my best interest to do so. If not, it would have gone through a lengthy litigation and I would have ended up eventually losing against a maternally biased system and have been ordered to pay closer to $1150, a number that HER lawyer came up with.

What I meant with the clothes is that her Grandmother, the mother of her MOTHER, the one that gets all my money, is the one who buys my child new brand name things constantly. Not a week goes by that this child literally does not have a new pair of shoes and at least one if not 2 outfits. I've seen new toys with a frequency of every 2 or 3 weeks as well. My concern is obviously not that my child is getting nice new things but the fact that these things are indirectly bought with my money and I have to give her hand me downs or recycled things and its much less likely she gets new anything at daddys house because he cant afford that and to pay mommy at the same time.

How long does a child have to wear the same outfit that doesn't fit before someone realizes there is a serious issue on the other parent. How many days is ok for a child to eat hot dogs or spaghetti or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, really? Know what I mean there?

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So what? It doesn't matter how many clothes the grandmother buys her. Your ex is paying for those clothes too by giving them money for daycare. It doesn't matter if they decide to gift some back to their daughter or not. It's not your daughter's fault she has a grandmother who can buy her those things.

It's not your money once you pay for daycare. It's the daycare provider's money - i.e. grandma and grandpa - so at that point they can use it for whatever they want to use it for. Why are you getting her clothes if she's getting them from her grandmother? There cuts a cost right there.

It's not a competition of who can buy the nicest things. If she gets clothes and toys from her grandma that often then you don't need to buy her anything unless it's her birthday or Christmas.

"How long does a child have to wear the same outfit that doesn't fit before someone realizes there is a serious issue on the other parent. How many days is ok for a child to eat hot dogs or spaghetti or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, really? Know what I mean there? "

This makes no sense - if grandma is buying her new clothes weekly then how is she wearing clothes that don't fit?

What's wrong with hot dogs and spaghetti and PB*J? She's eating right? She's being fed? And how the hell do you know what all she eats on a daily basis? This is the petty crap among parents that pisses me off. If she was being starved or abused or neglected then you have an issue but you go from saying how she gets everything she wants to "oh she eats this and this and this" and trying to imply that they don't feed her well.

You are not helping your case at all and honestly if you put your daughter in a facility you would be paying a LOT more than $400 a month.

You know what honestly kids (for the most part) don't give a crap about if their parents can buy them new toys or new clothes. They care about seeing their parents and them being happy and being able to have fun with them. I never cared if my parents bought me brand name clothes. Did it suck to get made fun of because I didn't? Yeah but I didn't care really. My dad was always there for us, we always had a roof over our head and clothes and shoes and food. Maybe it wasn't the greatest food when he cooked (it improved when my brothers learned) but it was food. We didn't get the nicest cars. I drove whatever car he let me when I got my license. I didn't care. All I cared about is that I was loved and taken care of and that my dad was happy.

If you don't like the daycare amount take her back to court that's the only way to change it. If you don't like the state calculation take it up with your representative.

Once your money leaves your hands and goes to pay child support or daycare or the bills it's not your money anymore.