Government Job Classification Doesn't Match Duties

My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: DC

This employer has already broken the law by telling me that I could come in the weekends to complete tasks that I stated couldn't be done during normal hours, "but I wouldn't get paid". Verbal conversation, I thought I was a salary employee but even when I realized I wasn't I kept going because it's the only way I could stay afloat.

So I'm dealing with a criminal. But the question is my job responsibility goes from being receptionist, to office manager. I won't go into the details, but I gave notice..and I see that the main job functions..what consumes time and energy, is not listed on the job description on the website. I know duties are not limited to this but it is odd.

Also, when asked for help enforcing better policies (because I'm the receptionist, and have no power), I was told it was infact my job to research policies, reach out to leadership, and get them to enforce them. My supervisor literally refused to connect to other directors and told me to make the policy, and see it through..because I that's why I'm at "grade xx".

The agency classification is inconsistent with the rules. My pay is below the minimum listed grade on one website, and my agency's website there is a completely different type of classification that isn't clearly mentioned in the official law.

Can anyone give any guidance?

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: DC

This employer has already broken the law by telling me that I could come in the weekends to complete tasks that I stated couldn't be done during normal hours, "but I wouldn't get paid". Verbal conversation, I thought I was a salary employee but even when I realized I wasn't I kept going because it's the only way I could stay afloat.

So I'm dealing with a criminal. But the question is my job responsibility goes from being receptionist, to office manager. I won't go into the details, but I gave notice..and I see that the main job functions..what consumes time and energy, is not listed on the job description on the website. I know duties are not limited to this but it is odd.

Also, when asked for help enforcing better policies (because I'm the receptionist, and have no power), I was told it was infact my job to research policies, reach out to leadership, and get them to enforce them. My supervisor literally refused to connect to other directors and told me to make the policy, and see it through..because I that's why I'm at "grade xx".

The agency classification is inconsistent with the rules. My pay is below the minimum listed grade on one website, and my agency's website there is a completely different type of classification that isn't clearly mentioned in the official law.

Can anyone give any guidance?

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"The agency classification is inconsistent with the rules. My pay is below the minimum listed grade on one website, and my agency's website there is a completely different type of classification that isn't clearly mentioned in the official law." For clarification, the law mentions "Career Service, Grade 11" for dc payscle. When you search the official .gov website with all DC government employees, it has me as "Career Service Grade 11". But the minimum amount for this grade is below what I make.

But then, my agency seems to have their own grade system that I believe is within the law, but I don't understand all of the terms. https://dchr.dc.gov/page/chapter-11a...rsonnel-manual



CS Grade 11, Starting Salary
c) To perform other work of equal importance, difficulty, and responsibility, and requiring comparable qualifications.

1101.11 Grade DS-10 includes those classes of positions the duties of which are--

(a) To perform, under general supervision, highly difficult and responsible work along special technical, supervisory, or administrative lines in office, business, or fiscal administration, requiring--

(1) Somewhat extended specialized, supervisory, or administrative training and experience which has demonstrated capacity for sound independent work;

(2) Thorough and fundamental knowledge of a specialized and complex subject matter, or of the profession, art, or science involved; and

(3) Considerable latitude for the exercise of independent judgment; or

(b) To perform other work of equal importance, difficulty and responsibility, and requiring comparable qualifications.

So specifically, I am concerned that I am being underpaid (retroactive pay?), I am concerned about the next person that falls into this position. It says "performs work of EQUAL importance". This role does 100% runs the onboarding process, tech, inventory ordering and distribution, creating policy, unloading and stocking the inventory, scheduling their own leave, whether sick, call out, daily lunch, or vacation. While being a receptionist, hanging calendars, cleaning out the refrigerator, greeting guests and walk ins (constant), and answering a very important complaint line (constant).

It does not seem right. But is it illegal??

No, it's not illegal.

Appears to be enough flexibility in your job description so that your job is what your boss says it is when he says it is.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your employment, seek employment elsewhere.

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Quoting adjusterjack

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No, it's not illegal.

Appears to be enough flexibility in your job description so that your job is what your boss says it is when he says it is.

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your employment, seek employment elsewhere.

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I'm sorry adjuster, but do you have experience with challenging classification or are you giving your opinion?

The "terms and conditions" of my employment aren't posted anywhere. I do not have a clear understanding of my grade. And the whole point of job classification is to ensure that government workers are being paid fairly.Flexibility is not the problem, I'm asking about legal standing in regards to government job classifications..something directly related to job function and job duties. Can you give any insight?

& I have already established that my boss is breaking the law with unpaid overtime so my job being whatever my boss says it is, when these rules exist, is not convincing at all!

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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This employer has already broken the law by telling me that I could come in the weekends to complete tasks that I stated couldn't be done during normal hours, "but I wouldn't get paid". Verbal conversation, I thought I was a salary employee but even when I realized I wasn't I kept going because it's the only way I could stay afloat.

So I'm dealing with a criminal.

But then, my agency seems to have their own grade system that I believe is within the law, but I don't understand all of the terms. https://dchr.dc.gov/page/chapter-11a...rsonnel-manual

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I find two things interesting here. First, FLSA wage & hour rules are administrative. If an employer violates them, the remedies are administrative in nature. To call your boss a criminal is inaccurate and self serving. Next, you claim you are hourly and not an exempt salaried employee, but then as reference, point us to a link for executive employees, who are traditionally salaried and admit it is correct. You then admit you don't understand the manual. Civil servants who see things in black and white, with no shades of grey (as you apparently do) do not have long careers, especially when they go around calling their boss a criminal yet at the same time admit they don't understand the policy's their employment is governed by.

Next, you claim you are being worked out of class and point to a general job description for a DS -10. Such descriptors are vague and intentionally generic to give a general overview of that job class. It was never intended to accurately describe in detail the responsibilities and every different position a DS-10 may fill. Each of those separate positions should have its own job description. How do your duties compare with the job description for the specific assignment you are filling? I suspect you have never seen it.

Lastly, if you feel you are being consistently worked outside of your job classification over a prolonged period of time, the appropriate remedy is to file an "out of class" grievance and ask to be promoted to the appropriate job classification. In order to do so, you will have to be worked out of class for a specific length of time. If you are truly an hourly employee, you will need to contact your job steward for specifics. If you are an exempt employee, the procedure will be different and you will need to contact OPM for instructions.

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Quoting L-1

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I find two things interesting here. First, FLSA wage & hour rules are administrative. If an employer violates them, the remedies are administrative in nature. To call your boss a criminal is inaccurate and self serving. Next, you claim you are hourly and not an exempt salaried employee, but then as reference, point us to a link for executive employees, who are traditionally salaried and admit it is correct. You then admit you don't understand the manual. Civil servants who see things in black and white, with no shades of grey (as you apparently do) do not have long careers, especially when they go around calling their boss a criminal yet at the same time admit they don't understand the policy's their employment is governed by.

Next, you claim you are being worked out of class and point to a general job description for a DS -10. Such descriptors are vague and intentionally generic to give a general overview of that job class. It was never intended to accurately describe in detail the responsibilities and every different position a DS-10 may fill. Each of those separate positions should have its own job description. How do your duties compare with the job description for the specific assignment you are filling? I suspect you have never seen it.

Lastly, if you feel you are being consistently worked outside of your job classification over a prolonged period of time, the appropriate remedy is to file an "out of class" grievance and ask to be promoted to the appropriate job classification. In order to do so, you will have to be worked out of class for a specific length of time. If you are truly an hourly employee, you will need to contact your job steward for specifics. If you are an exempt employee, the procedure will be different and you will need to contact OPM for instructions.

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Hi L-1,
I posted the wrong information. Here is the link to a list of types/classifications : https://dchr.dc.gov/node/1191765

Please keep in my mind, I am listed as a Career Service 11 on one .gov website, and a different code but still Grade 11 on my pay stub/agency level records. I cannot find any information on my classification, outside of a a pay scale provided by my agency. Also, I was able to find case law on one case in the past, where my agency was found in error for classifications.


Career Service Grade 11 = Starting at 56k, Step 4 is 62k
If I try to compare to Regular/Leader/Non-Supervisory Grade 11 = It's about 57k starting

I make 9 - 15k under both of those classifications.

My supervisor is listed under Career Service too and the salary is on par with what the rules state.

Also, I consider it criminal to purposefully deny an employee overtime pay..that is the truth, nothing self serving about it. My boss' boss was there for a very short time when I started and I remember him saying "and our course if we have special projects we'll ask for overtime..." but this is my first job where I was given a salary instead of an hourly wage on my offer letter..so I thought that meant salary employee. HOWEVER, I did not attempt to work overtime until I was asked to do something not practical during business hours, that's when I was informed of the "sure - but no pay". And that set the tone for awhile - coming in just to do work that physically couldn't be done during work hours.

I was told specifically when asking if policy could be discussed on a manager-manager basis (because it affects the employees of these managers) that "it's your job to do this, that's why you're Grade 11". So I'd like to know which record is correct. I am either being underpaid in the proper position, or over burdened/and overpaid in in a lower position. I was also told that the position was newly created, it used to be a "Grade 7", but because of a massive merge, it was upgraded. Out of spite, I was then told "maybe we should look into demoting it back". I replied that maybe they should rethink demoting it. Seriously meaning it but of course nothing came of it. If I'm willing to take a pay cut doesn't convince you that this post/my issues are not self serving I don't know what will. Been in this position for over a year, I can promise you there aren't many as bizarre as this one. My supervisor's boss unfortunately left shortly after I started, no checks and balances to speak of.

I am an objective person. But here are the facts: The rules state government employees who are not exempt must be paid for overtime - does my supervisor who submitted the grade, description, salary info, and who previously worked in HR for four years not understand policy? Imagine being asked to paint all of the desks during work hours, it's not going to work. That's just a fact, but was still denied overtime pay & encouraged to come in on the weekend multiple times to get these kind of things done.

2. I am listed under two different classifications, considered official records, with no obvious connection. No mention of my classification in the official manual. No explanation of these agency created/used codes, only pay scales. At least one instance of the court finding an error in an employee's classification.

Pay has never been an issue, it's the lies and deceit that bug me. I decided not to push the overtime issue because I was ready to close this door but looking at the whole picture and not just black and white, maybe I should push back. I'm leaving either way.

So far I have made it through 400 Career Service salaries that started in the same year I did.

So far None of the CS 11 Salaries are alligned with mine for the same years in service. I am taking into account the steps too. Oddly enough, So Far my salary is consistently just slightly above Grade 7, as my supervisor mentioned it was before. Slightly higher probably because of the steps.

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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I posted the wrong information. Here is the link to a list of types/classifications : https://dchr.dc.gov/node/1191765

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And that link took me to a gazillion jobs. Which one is yours?

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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Please keep in my mind, I am listed as a Career Service 11 on one .gov website, and a different code but still Grade 11 on my pay stub/agency level records. I cannot find any information on my classification, outside of a a pay scale provided by my agency. Also, I was able to find case law on one case in the past, where my agency was found in error for classifications.

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So, you really don't know what you are, yet you are crying foul.

Let's try it this way. When you were hired, the government sent you a Report of Appointment. It contained your name, social security number, position number, position title, and position classification number. That will tell you what you are within the great labyrinth of government. Your position code and number will tell you what pay scale you qualify for, and whether you are FLSA exempt or hourly. Without that information there is no way to intelligently pursue a conversation with you about overtime. Come back when you have it.

Next, the specific position you are filling should have a duty statement or job description other than the vague general descriptor of a GS -11 or DS-10. Just because you don't have one doesn't mean one doesn't exist. For example, some state agencies have a civil service position known as an Assistant Government Program Analyst (AGPA). There is a vague, generic one size fits all duty statement for AGPAs, but in reality, AGPAs do a litle bit of everything from serving as managers, auditing programs, conducting research, writing policy and procedure, serving as public affairs officers, etc., with each position having a specific job description for the assigned AGPA above and beyond the generic AGPA duty statement.

If you believe you are being worked out off class, you first need to make an effort to find the duty statement that is specific to your actual position. Only then can we examin your duties and intelligently deterine whether you are being worked out of class. Find that duty statement. Then come back and we'll talk.

And again, if you are an hourly employee who has been improperly denied overtime, FLSA violations are Administrative and not Criminal. Your boss will not be arrested or sent to jail, so stop calling him a criminal. If a violation is determined to have occurred, your employing agency will pay an administrative penalty.

Methinks that if we asked OP's boss to tell us about OP's issues, we'd get a completely different story. :friendly_wink:

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Quoting L-1

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And that link took me to a gazillion jobs. Which one is yours?




So, you really don't know what you are, yet you are crying foul.

Let's try it this way. When you were hired, the government sent you a Report of Appointment. It contained your name, social security number, position number, position title, and position classification number. That will tell you what you are within the great labyrinth of government. Your position code and number will tell you what pay scale you qualify for, and whether you are FLSA exempt or hourly. Without that information there is no way to intelligently pursue a conversation with you about overtime. Come back when you have it.

Next, the specific position you are filling should have a duty statement or job description other than the vague general descriptor of a GS -11 or DS-10. Just because you don't have one doesn't mean one doesn't exist. For example, some state agencies have a civil service position known as an Assistant Government Program Analyst (AGPA). There is a vague, generic one size fits all duty statement for AGPAs, but in reality, AGPAs do a litle bit of everything from serving as managers, auditing programs, conducting research, writing policy and procedure, serving as public affairs officers, etc., with each position having a specific job description for the assigned AGPA above and beyond the generic AGPA duty statement.

If you believe you are being worked out off class, you first need to make an effort to find the duty statement that is specific to your actual position. Only then can we examin your duties and intelligently deterine whether you are being worked out of class. Find that duty statement. Then come back and we'll talk.

And again, if you are an hourly employee who has been improperly denied overtime, FLSA violations are Administrative and not Criminal. Your boss will not be arrested or sent to jail, so stop calling him a criminal. If a violation is determined to have occurred, your employing agency will pay an administrative penalty.

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Thank you. Your approach is a bit hostile (In two posts I've been called self-serving, and received a prediction of a bad career). But you've given good information. Also, not sure why you assume you can't have an intelligent conversation with me, was it something I said?
Next, the specific position you are filling should have a duty statement or job description other than the vague general descriptor of a GS -11 or DS-10. Just because you don't have one doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
"

The bottom line is that it is hard to find. Offer letters are signed online, and not emailed. The link I used to access it dosen't led to the signed letter. Because of connections to HR & my supervisor, I wanted to see if there was public information that explained why I am being coded under two different classifications. Maybe they are the same, but I have researched and found no public information.

I am an hourly employee. Non-exempt is listed on my paystubs.

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Quoting eerelations

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Methinks that if we asked OP's boss to tell us about OP's issues, we'd get a completely different story. :friendly_wink:

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You do understand that this mindset of "boss is always right" is why in a democratic country, our true experiences and needs are not represented? This idea that anyone who has a problem with their job/supervisor just needs to find another a job is a problem. If you read through my posts you must assume I am lying, because I tried to focus on hard facts. I was denied overtime pay. I was told that what I consider unreasonable, is actually reasonable because of a classification that I don't understand. What do you think my boss would say about those two things, because that's what I am asking.

Have you actually gone to someone in HR and asked? You say you have connections to HR....

Honestly I know nothing about government employment, but it sounds like you have (1) a miscommunication in many areas (2) a conflict of roles and (3) a misunderstanding of what your job duties are/might be and what should be paid due to your "level". Are you sure the sites you are referencing apply to you and your agency? The only people that can clear that up for you are those in HR who understand such things. No one here can tell you how you should be paid - hourly, salaried or exempt. No one here can tell you why you aren't getting paid at some level you have found online. I realize gov't employees have open records for salaries, grades and levels, but it honestly sounds very confusing and I've been in HR/payroll/compensation for close to 20 years.

Depending on whether you are part of a union, you might be able to ask them to help you with clarification if HR can't give you the answers you are looking for. It sounds like you are trying to find evidence to prove your case. At this point, why not go to HR and see what they have to say -- it might clear it all up (and even if your favor) to get answers from the experts.

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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You do understand that this mindset of "boss is always right" is why in a democratic country, our true experiences and needs are not represented? This idea that anyone who has a problem with their job/supervisor just needs to find another a job is a problem. If you read through my posts you must assume I am lying, because I tried to focus on hard facts. I was denied overtime pay. I was told that what I consider unreasonable, is actually reasonable because of a classification that I don't understand. What do you think my boss would say about those two things, because that's what I am asking.

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Wow, what an extrapolation! And soooo sarcastic! I never said any of this, nor did I intend to say any of this. You completely missed my point! Talk about hostile, wow! :rolleyes:

And she is anti democracy. Glad to see we have people like that working in DC.

Jesus christ lol Is this a forum actually a bashing ground for people looking for help with employment issues? Is everyone HR here?

Well, the very nature of HR work is helping people with employment issues, so why you have a problem with that I don't know.

And I didn't bash you, you (possibly deliberately) misunderstood my statement and bashed me.

Honestly I think the OP is misunderstanding a lot. He/She really needs to go back to the basic source -- her HR department. This forum is not going to be able to answer her questions.

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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Jesus christ lol Is this a forum actually a bashing ground for people looking for help with employment issues? Is everyone HR here?

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We only bash when they ask us a question and when we answer as best we can or give the best advice we can and they don't like the answer they get troll like. Then it is open season on them. It is how many of us blow off steam when we are advising for free and they act like A-holes.

And I'd bet combined we have well over 100 years of HR experience.

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Quoting PayrolGuy

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And I'd bet combined we have well over 100 years of HR experience.

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At least, cbg and I alone have 60+ between us.

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Quoting PayrolGuy

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We only bash when they ask us a question and when we answer as best we can or give the best advice we can and they don't like the answer they get troll like. Then it is open season on them. It is how many of us blow off steam when we are advising for free and they act like A-holes.

And I'd bet combined we have well over 100 years of HR experience.

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I have received one helpful response and I'm not a troll trying to be controversial and mess with you. I'm literally asking things I've been googling. I will reach out to someone internal. I thought this was more of an advocate site.

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Quoting eerelations

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At least, cbg and I alone have 60+ between us.

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Add 19 1/2 years for me and that gets us at least to 80+ years

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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I have received one helpful response and I'm not a troll trying to be controversial and mess with you. I'm literally asking things I've been googling. I will reach out to someone internal. I thought this was more of an advocate site.

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The most helpful response you got was that you need to go to your internal HR which you are now saying you are going to do. That is great because the information that you gave us wasn't enough for us to really help you.

And no this isn't an advocate site. It is a bunch of HR professionals and with a lawyer or two that have lots of years of HR experience that freely give their time to try to help employees and employers with HR and Labor Law issues.


17 1/2 years myself.

I'm keeping out of this one since I have no experience with government workers but my private sector experience is a lot closer to 40 years than I want to admit.

And I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to help. It's not the fault of anyone here if the legally correct answers are not the ones you want to hear, or thought they would be.

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Quoting cbg

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...my private sector experience is a lot closer to 40 years than I want to admit...

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That throws us WAY over 100 years.

^^^^^^


:d :d :d

For some reason the smilies won't smile.

What was HR like back when dinosaurs were a workplace hazard? :friendly_wink:

You don't want to know what the OSHA log looked like back then.

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Quoting eerelations

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Well, the very nature of HR work is helping people with employment issues, so why you have a problem with that I don't know.

And I didn't bash you, you (possibly deliberately) misunderstood my statement and bashed me.

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You don't realize there is a serious mistrust of HR among employees? We figured out who your boss is. When I asked if everyone here was HR, I honestly didn't expect it to be the case lol I would have never posted

Oh, yes, we realize it. We're well aware that we're held up as the bogey man by the supervising managers: "I want to do/not do that for you but HR won't let me". We're quite aware that because we're expected to pull out our magic wands and fix everything just the way the employee wants it, and when the battery dies on the wand it can't possibly be because the law doesn't permit something, or because we recommended something and the boss overrode it, everyone assumes it's because "HR works for the bosses" and are deliberately making all the employees miserable just because they can. We're quite aware that there are regular posters right here on this site who will tell the posters that HR will always take the employers side regardless of the truth. We know that we're expected to take the heat and bear all the responsibility, even when we're screaming at the employer that they should be doing x and the employer insists on doing y.

We also know that nothing we can say is going to change any minds and that there will always be those who assume that HR is going to automatically rule in favor of the employer every time. So we just put up with being the bad guys and come here to try to help anyway.

So now that you know that we're all just corporate stooges here (rolleye) you may as well just take yourself off to answers.yahoo.com where you can get answers you'll like better. They'll be wrong answers, and they'll come from people who don't have a clue what the correct answers are and are only guessing based on what they think the law ought to be, but they'll make you feel all justified and smug. And more importantly, they won't be coming from HR.

Off with you, now.

Love you cbg!!!!:friendly_wink:

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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You don't realize there is a serious mistrust of HR among employees? We figured out who your boss is. When I asked if everyone here was HR, I honestly didn't expect it to be the case lol I would have never posted

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More bashing! :rolleyes:

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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You don't realize there is a serious mistrust of HR among employees? We figured out who your boss is. When I asked if everyone here was HR, I honestly didn't expect it to be the case lol I would have never posted

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We aren't all HR but the HR respondents are the ones that are most likely to be able to provide you with the information that is pertinent and accurate.

Note that I did not say that they would provide the information that you want.

Actually, when you say you work for the government, you even exclude ANY discretion that a supervisor or HR might have in private sector employment. If there is one thing that is true of government employment, it is that EVERYTHING is tied down, nailed to the floor, and they have already worked out whether or not this is an issue. There is a departmental HR and then there is an overall HR in this type of employment. If you want to be stupid, you could hire a labor attorney to take your case and then find out if you have one or not. You can ask supervisors and discuss issues all day long, but in government jobs, those supervisors have no specialized knowledge and very little control of HR issues such as job assignments, job titles, etc. Therefore you are being very silly if you don't begin with and stay with your departmental HR and then move on.

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Quoting cbg

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Oh, yes, we realize it. We're well aware that we're held up as the bogey man by the supervising managers: "I want to do/not do that for you but HR won't let me". We're quite aware that because we're expected to pull out our magic wands and fix everything just the way the employee wants it, and when the battery dies on the wand it can't possibly be because the law doesn't permit something, or because we recommended something and the boss overrode it, everyone assumes it's because "HR works for the bosses" and are deliberately making all the employees miserable just because they can. We're quite aware that there are regular posters right here on this site who will tell the posters that HR will always take the employers side regardless of the truth. We know that we're expected to take the heat and bear all the responsibility, even when we're screaming at the employer that they should be doing x and the employer insists on doing y.

We also know that nothing we can say is going to change any minds and that there will always be those who assume that HR is going to automatically rule in favor of the employer every time. So we just put up with being the bad guys and come here to try to help anyway.

So now that you know that we're all just corporate stooges here (rolleye) you may as well just take yourself off to answers.yahoo.com where you can get answers you'll like better. They'll be wrong answers, and they'll come from people who don't have a clue what the correct answers are and are only guessing based on what they think the law ought to be, but they'll make you feel all justified and smug. And more importantly, they won't be coming from HR.

Off with you, now.

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What makes your experience more important than what employees experience? If there is a disconnect, or "assumed" lack of support, it is not an imaginary problem. It is a problem. Like I said the experiences of employees mean nothing..going back to the "I wonder what the boss would say" and other responses on the first page. The HR posters' tone is suspicious, and flat out insulting..on the attack.

Did I bring up anything that wasn't a hard issue? Denied overtime and classification. I could go on and on about the horrors of my supervisor and get others to join me, but this post was about the law.

If you're screaming at the employer so much, why such a negative tone? And why do you take offense to me saying there is mistrust, you tell your employer x, they don't care, but we're supposed to believe that going to HR is effective?

My experience with HR professionals in this thread was horrible.

But of course, the obvious tone of the responses will be dismissed and everyone is free to hide their hands behind "good intentions". Passive aggressive insults come through loud and clear to me unfortunately

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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My experience with HR professionals in this thread was horrible.

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You reap what you sow. :)

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Quoting 2weeknotice25556

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What makes your experience more important than what employees experience? If there is a disconnect, or "assumed" lack of support, it is not an imaginary problem. It is a problem. Like I said the experiences of employees mean nothing..going back to the "I wonder what the boss would say" and other responses on the first page. The HR posters' tone is suspicious, and flat out insulting..on the attack.

Did I bring up anything that wasn't a hard issue? Denied overtime and classification. I could go on and on about the horrors of my supervisor and get others to join me, but this post was about the law.

If you're screaming at the employer so much, why such a negative tone? And why do you take offense to me saying there is mistrust, you tell your employer x, they don't care, but we're supposed to believe that going to HR is effective?

My experience with HR professionals in this thread was horrible.

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Please look in the mirror before you start typing again.

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Quoting cbg

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Oh, yes, we realize it. We're well aware that we're held up as the bogey man by the supervising managers: "I want to do/not do that for you but HR won't let me". We're quite aware that because we're expected to pull out our magic wands and fix everything just the way the employee wants it, and when the battery dies on the wand it can't possibly be because the law doesn't permit something, or because we recommended something and the boss overrode it, everyone assumes it's because "HR works for the bosses" and are deliberately making all the employees miserable just because they can. We're quite aware that there are regular posters right here on this site who will tell the posters that HR will always take the employers side regardless of the truth. We know that we're expected to take the heat and bear all the responsibility, even when we're screaming at the employer that they should be doing x and the employer insists on doing y.

We also know that nothing we can say is going to change any minds and that there will always be those who assume that HR is going to automatically rule in favor of the employer every time. So we just put up with being the bad guys and come here to try to help anyway.

So now that you know that we're all just corporate stooges here (rolleye) you may as well just take yourself off to answers.yahoo.com where you can get answers you'll like better. They'll be wrong answers, and they'll come from people who don't have a clue what the correct answers are and are only guessing based on what they think the law ought to be, but they'll make you feel all justified and smug. And more importantly, they won't be coming from HR.

Off with you, now.

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Standing ovation.

Who said anyone's experience was more valid than anyone else's?

As I said before, off with you. You're clearly not here for answers.

Quote:

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Quoting cbg

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Who said anyone's experience was more valid than anyone else's?

As I said before, off with you. You're clearly not here for answers.

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Tell me more about the dinosaurs ... :p

Dogmatique, I see u posted a comment abt a friend whose teenage child was ordered by the NY court to visit parent in another state. I haven't figured out how to navigate this website yet. Is there some way you would be able to tell me the name of the lawyer your friend used? I can send u an email address or phone for myself. I have a friend whose teenage son just graduated and he wasn't even allowed to go to the grad ceremony; he'll be paying tuition in the fall but he doesn't know where his son is going to college; etc. His lawyer is brushing off wish for enforcing the visitation b/c the son is now 17. But there's a 15 yr old daughter and it sounds like your friend's lawyer was a little more serious about this. I am, too. Children need both parents. Even if they don't know it.

rsvp.