OK I will make this long story as short as possible. I went into a local grocery store today with a bag in hand to return an item. Its a chain grocery store--I figured they'd accept the return at any store. Well, since it was "perishable" goods, they told me I had to return it to the original store of purchase. I had a receipt for the perishable food item.
So I went about my business..I had a couple things to get at the grocery store, so I figured what the heck, while I"m here, right? All the time remember I'm carrying around this grocery bag. I pick up 2 more items and carry them in my other hand, and proceed to check out. The checkout girl asks if I want a bag, and I say "nah, I'll just throw them in this bag. After I check out, I am proceeding to the exit where I am approached by a guy in a backwards hat, asking me for my receipt, apparently an undercover store detective. I gladly hand him the bag.
This is where it got ugly. He discovered a bottle of Affrin (nasal spray) not in a box but inside the bag. I had bought it at Rite Aid the same day I bought the food item I was returning--but had used it immediately and thrown out the box and all as soon as I walked out of Rite Aid. Then I threw it in the bag with the food and forgot all about it--until he found it.
so the bottom line is this...store agent has the following:
2 items I just bought with receipt
1 food item with old receipt (the item i was attempting to return)
the bottle of affrin with no box, no seal and no proof of purchase.
HE ACCUSES ME OF STEALING THE AFFRIN FROM THEM!!!
I get taken to an upstairs office. Store manager comes in, and another store detective. At first, I am IRATE, because I've obviously done nothing wrong. The 3 store employees are all getting VERY confused about what is happening. I mean, its a confusing story, and admittedly, a suspicious one, but my story is true and because of that I kept it straight at all times.
They keep saying things like "cmon, we know you stole the nasal spray" and "dont make us call the cops." They make me keep telling the story OVER And OVER again...they OBVIOUSLY arent buying the part that I bought the Affrin at a RiteAid. I even offered to have someone come bring the receipt!! It gets so confusing, they even start to accuse me of stealing the item I came to return!! I mean this got ugly and complex.
Finally, they verify with customer service rep that I indeed tried to return the food item. They called the other store where I had bought it at and they somehow verified the transaction, I guess b/c they had my store "grocery club card" and the receipt. So I'm off the hook for that.
But they persist with accusing me of stealing the Affrin. So the manager and one store detective go into another room, mumbling under their breath "we're gonna have to get the cops involved." After they walk out, I ask the guy remaining, who is copying info off my Driver's license, "hey, what is going to happen here??" He goes: "You pretty much have 2 options: You can sign this form and walk outta here today. Then we'll send you a fine in the mail through the store. You won't get a criminal record. OR you can continue to be uncooperative and they are gonna call the police. Then guilty or innocent, you will be arrested and we will press charges."
So even though I'm innocent these guys have me by the balls here. Either admit to something I didnt do or get arrested. I am a professional college grad in Northern NJ. I work in NYC at a large advertising agency. I can't afford to have an arrest record or have my employer find out I was arrested--innocent or guilty!! An arrest is an arrest, we all know that.
So in this situation of duress, I signed the form. I guess it basically admitted to stealing the Affrin. As I've said multiple times, this is NOT true, but in my judgment, it was the best thing to do given the circumstances. Besides the receipt for the Affrin at home, I had nothing to prove my innocence...
These are my questions
1.) What is going to happen to me? The form I signed, I was told, was a "release agreement." They explained that meant I was allowing the store to handle it internally without involving the state criminal system. Is this true?
2.) NO POLICE were involved. They apparently were never called and did not come. I left with no summons or anything...just a promise of a letter with a fine from the grocery store. Does this mean I am NOT being prosecuted?? And accordingly, does that mean it won't go on my record at all? Or can they turn around and press charges on Monday? My instinct says no--my instinct says if the police were going to be involved, they would have been there today, but I'm no expert...
3.) Do I have a cause of action against them? I was only detained for about 45 min...but obviously I was falsely accused and have evidence proving the purchase of the Affrin. They have NO PROOF whatsoever that I "stole" anything. Its all circumstantial evidence (guy walkin around with grocery bag obviously arraises suspicions, and I did "technically" attempt to leave the store with a product they sell and no proof of purchase). But isnt that the same as walking into a store with a pack of gum in your jacket pocket and then being accused of stealing it??? They have NO PROOF!!!
4.) This is more of a moral/subjective question. Did I do the "right thing?" By right thing, I mean for my career and personal life. Is it better to just pay them whatever fine the store demands and not go through the hassle of getting
A. arrested (whether innocent or not, an arrest goes on your record)
B. the hassle of court dates
C. the cost of proving my innocence
I mean when I decided to just sign and walk out without further reprecussions, I realized I was admitting to something i didnt do. But technically my "confession" was made under duress. I signed because I dont want police involvement in my life. As I said above, I'd rather pay the store a lousy couple hundred bucks or whatever they demand for the $5 bottle of Affrin (which I didnt even get to KEEP, haha--who is the REAL THIEF here??).
I mean the cost of an attorney, the inconvenience of going to court, and getting booked/arrested/processed giving me a permanent arrest history just seemed more of a liability than "paying them off" regardless of my guilt or innocence.
Any thoughts/advice/answers?? Thanks in advance....
Grocery Store Shoplifting in New Jersey - What comes next?
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03-24-2007, 10:08 PMDeezyD1212Grocery Store Shoplifting in New Jersey - What comes next?
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03-24-2007, 10:59 PMredtoy92Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?If your story is true.... then go back to riteaid.. get a copy of your reciept from that day. then get an lawyer and let him start making calls up the chain in the company, Not only could you sue them if your story is true but you can at least get all this dropped.Quote:
Quoting DeezyD1212
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03-25-2007, 02:01 AMDeezyD1212Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?I appreciate the advice, but I really don't think hiring a lawyer is going to be cheaper than just paying them off. I have the receipt, but how credible is that against the store detective's testimony? He can easily lie and say he watched me steal it, although that of course didnt happen. It basically boils down to a legal battle, the possibility of arrest, and legal fees--a nightmare drawn out. Thats the whole reason I signed the "release," so I could walk out of the store w/o handcuffs and get off the cheapest way possible.Quote:
Quoting redtoy92
It's a shame that this is what our country's legal system has come to: MONEY. Sometimes its not even worth it to fight for the truth and justice. My legal fees and the time I'd have to invest going to court make your suggestion hardly worth it...
My MAIN QUESTION is, if they just send me a demand letter with a fine or something, and I pay it, is it OVER? Or can they still turn around and press charges later on?
I hate to sound like a "wimp" but I have NO desire to hire a lawyer and go toe to toe with them. I mean I have friends that are lawyers--and maybe I can even call the store's legal dept. or HQ myself to plead my case. But I'm not hiring a lawyer. That just almost guarantees they will change their mind and press charges, IMO.
I want the fastest, easiest and cheapest way out of this mess. Having a lawyer make calls might make it easier, maybe even faster, but I doubt cheaper.
And of course I'm worried about my permanent record. If these stores send demand letters, accept payment, and then move on w/o pressing charges or making a public note of the incident, I'll happily let them believe I"m "guilty" and pay them a couple hundred bucks. I'm a professional college grad--the money isnt worth as much as the time and chances of arrest...
Thanks.. -
03-25-2007, 03:29 AMbluemovesRe: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?
If you want to just "pay them off" and "get it over with", then why are you here? Surely your inner sense of justice brought you here, and surely you have the will to fight? If not, I can't imagine what's going to happen when the day comes that the government asks you for your "papers" and sends you to a detention camp. That might sound kooky, but seriously--if you're innocent, you should fight to the death to defend your innocence. The easy route is what they wag in your face to "make it all go away", because most honest people are in shock at such accusations, and don't know the procedure. The police use these techniques, too.
First, your mistakes--you should NEVER have shown the security guard your receipt. You should have refused. You should have asked if you were being detained or free to go. If they said you were free to go, you should have left the store. If they said you were being detained, you should have immediately demanded they call the police. You should not have given them your driver's license or any personal information until the police arrived. Since you didn't do these things, your stuck with fighting it under the current circumstances. And I would fight it. -
03-25-2007, 07:21 AMpanther10758Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?You should have never cooperated you should have requested they call Police as you had done no wrong!Quote:
These are my questions
1.) What is going to happen to me? The form I signed, I was told, was a "release agreement." They explained that meant I was allowing the store to handle it internally without involving the state criminal system. Is this true? Yes and no long as you pay civil demand yes they will let it go. However if you steal again (not saying your guilty) or if banned you renter store they could file charges
2.) NO POLICE were involved. They apparently were never called and did not come. I left with no summons or anything...just a promise of a letter with a fine from the grocery store. Does this mean I am NOT being prosecuted?? And accordingly, does that mean it won't go on my record at all?No record and no arrest you are correct
3.) Do I have a cause of action against them? I was only detained for about 45 min...but obviously I was falsely accused and have evidence proving the purchase of the Affrin. They have NO PROOF whatsoever that I "stole" anything. Its all circumstantial evidence (guy walkin around with grocery bag obviously arraises suspicions, and I did "technically" attempt to leave the store with a product they sell and no proof of purchase). But isnt that the same as walking into a store with a pack of gum in your jacket pocket and then being accused of stealing it??? They have NO PROOF!!!Yes you have cause for action you were accussed and sued for theft you did not commit. The store Loss Prevention did not meet his requirements to make a stop! One requirement he must have is he must see you select item and conceal it he couldnt have since you took nothing!
4.) This is more of a moral/subjective question. Did I do the "right thing?" By right thing, I mean for my career and personal life. Is it better to just pay them whatever fine the store demands and not go through the hassle of getting
A. arrested (whether innocent or not, an arrest goes on your record)
B. the hassle of court dates
C. the cost of proving my innocence
I mean when I decided to just sign and walk out without further reprecussions, I realized I was admitting to something i didnt do. But technically my "confession" was made under duress. I signed because I dont want police involvement in my life. As I said above, I'd rather pay the store a lousy couple hundred bucks or whatever they demand for the $5 bottle of Affrin (which I didnt even get to KEEP, haha--who is the REAL THIEF here??).
I mean the cost of an attorney, the inconvenience of going to court, and getting booked/arrested/processed giving me a permanent arrest history just seemed more of a liability than "paying them off" regardless of my guilt or innocence.
Any thoughts/advice/answers?? Thanks in advance....
PS before anyone recommends that I go back to the store with the receipt for the Affrin, I already considered that and dismissed that as an option. The reason being is twofold: they obviously dont believe me and will probably just call the police. I've already accomplished my mission--avoiding police/legal involvement, and I don't want to rehash this. The second reason is since I've already signed the "waiver," besides the fact that it was under duress, its likely too late to try to dispute my innocence. I already explained my reasons for signing anyway--knowing i was admitting guilt.
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03-25-2007, 08:39 AMDeezyD1212Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?
Ok guys, thanks for all the responses and thoughts.
Again, I appreciate the advice--ie, I "should've waited for the police," and "I should have refused to cooperate" and "I should fight this to the death."
Seriously thank you, I KNOW I AM INNOCENT! What you guys are neglecting to answer for me is WHAT COMES NEXT???
In order for me to determine whether or not its worth it, financially or realistically, to FIGHT this thing, FIRST I need to know:
A. what is going to happen next
B. its effect on my permanent record
C. if I will even have a CASE, given that I signed the "release" ( I realize I was obviously under duress--I was being threatened with being arrested, going to jail, have a criminal record, etc. And I was told that nobody, including myself, was allowed to bring that receipt there yesterday, proving my innocence. So without that receipt present, the police would have done the same thing, assumed my guilt.
***To those saying I shouldve "waited for the police." Are you INSANE?? Did you read my ENTIRE story? I'm sitting in a detention room, with NO evidence present whatsoever to prove my innocence, and three store employees convinced of my guilt. Now who do YOU think the police would likely side with? It's the police's job to ARREST you if the store wishes to press charges--its not their job to determine my guilt or innocence. As I said before, I want to AVOID arrest. In an ideal world, yea, maybe some nice cops would have come and believed me. But with three store employees standing there, CONVINCED of my guilt, and no evidence present to prove my story, the police had no reason to believe me over them--it was basically my word against theirs. I would have had my chance in COURT perhaps to prove my innocence, but still the stigma and RECORD of being arrested!! Then the hassle of court, lawyers and additional time/money WASTED on something I never did to begin with. You guys are clearly missing the logic of cooperation in this case. It was an educated decision I made, given the circumstances, and based on not having the time or resources for a court battle, or the embarassment of having my girlfriend or somebody bail me out.
OK, so please no more criticism about the fact that I cooperated. There's no use crying over spilled milk. I need to know, based on the facts in my original post, WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT? Once I know that, I can decide if its worth it to fight them instead.
Thx -
03-25-2007, 08:41 AMpanther10758Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?
Whats next is Civil Demand. Its where retailer sends you a demand for monies between $50.00 and $1000.00 depending on state. Normal amount is around $300.00. thats whats next!
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03-25-2007, 08:56 AMDeezyD1212Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?So theres NO WAY they can prosecute me at this point? Does "civil demand" affect your permanent record or put you into a database of shoplifters? I would think no, but someone who knows more can help out here...My instinct says civil demand is BASICALLY the same as me writing a letter to someone who i believe owes me money, and i have some proof of this claim. They can pay or not pay. If they pay, case closed...no court, no nada. If they don't, then I have to take them to a civil forum to get the $$ back. Seems the store is in pretty much the same boat here.Quote:
Quoting panther10758
Ok...certainly every state has set forth legal maximums that they can collect. I will have to do some research on this forum or on NJ law....I have access to Lexis Nexis accounts. But the store guy, the one who stayed in the room explaining the alternative of police action or signin the release, said the fine would be the store minimum, and around $150.
Of course, who knows if thats true, but coming straight "from the horse's mouth," I have every reason to believe it is.
I mean thats where I'm coming from. $150 and OVER WITH versus lawyers, court, arrest, etc. All that takes time and even if innocent, at least TRIPLE the $150 this costs. Plus, I'm not going to lie, I am the type of person who cant sleep at night worrying about pending things like this. The "relief" of it being over is well worth the $150. Like I said, I'm a working professional, its not like I dont have the money. But that also doesnt mean I'm gonna piss away $1,000 on a lawyer to go to court and prove my innocence. Probably more $$$ than that...and thats IF I get off. For all I know, that form I signed might bar me taking any further action! I mean cmon people: $1,000 or more vs. $150. hmmmmmm...Everyone has their price, and yes, as long as "civil demand" doesnt give me any kind of shoplifting record or criminal record, $150 will certainly buy my "innocence." Thats just the reality of today's world...sometimes its more LOGICAL to take the blows than stand up for yourself. Thats what the legal system has come down to....
And people SPARE me the "fight for your rights" BULLCRAP, ok? Yes, the law SAYS you are innocent until proven guilty, but is that really how America works? Think about it. You hear on the news that somebody was arrested in association with a crime--by the time you're done hearing the newscast you're 90% convinced they did it. You have NO CLUE whether they're innocent or guilty. But people, and especially MY EMPLOYER's first reaction to "oh ______ got arrested for shoplifiting" means with 90% certainty they are guilty as charged. No thanks! Thats not the way its "supposed" to be, but unfortunately its the reality of our society. -
03-25-2007, 09:26 AMLPCapRe: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?To answer the above two questions.Quote:
Quoting DeezyD1212
#1 -They still can prosecute. The chances of them prosecuting you after the fact are slim, especially given the low dollar amount. Some areas have minimum dollar amounts set for prosecution, your area might be one of them. Keep in mind, you still can be prosecuted until the Statute of Limitations runs out.Quote:
Quoting DeezyD1212
#2-A lot of retailers are part of a database where people caught for shoplifting and employee theft are entered into is. This database is for companies who subscribe to it and they can see records for up to seven years prior. So, if you apply to a retailer for a part time job and your name, address or social comes up with a "hit". you will most likely be denied for a job. If you are not planning on working retail, then you have no worries, because it is mainly retailers who check theses databases out.Quote:
Quoting DeezyD1212
Now, if you apply for say a government job (or any other), you do NOT have to put this incident down. -
03-25-2007, 09:34 AMDeezyD1212Re: NJ grocery store shoplifting--what comes next?Quote:
Quoting LPCap
Thanks for the answers.
No, I don't plan on working retail anytime soon or ever, haha. So paying civil demand basically "ends" this.
As to the prosecution thing, thats EXACTLY why I don't want to fight for my "rights" here. IF they detained me, they obviously had "probable cause" to suspect me of shoplifting. I almost don't blame them--guy walkin around a store with a bag full of store merchandise--receipts or no receipts, you make yourself look suspicious and that was dumb on my part. But if I go back NOW or refuse to pay, they still have the OPTION TO PROSECUTE. Just another reason I shouldn't fight this...$150, if that indeed is my fine, is a cheap price to pay for avoiding the hassle of arrest and prosecution.
I actually have another question while we're here...I 've read some other peoples stories since joining this forum last night, and it seems there are usually 2 forms involved:
--inventory affirmation
--civil demand agreement
I only signed one. That makes me nervous....all the form said was basically the price and description of the item. I guess my signature was a "confession" but why didn't I sign 2 forms? does this just depend on the store?
Also, as a procedural issue, haha, when they went to get the "box" for the item I supposedly stole, I guess to get the price, they got the WRONG BOX! It was for a similar Affrin product, but a smaller size. Is that a technicality that can get me off COMPLETELY??