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What Are a Minor's Rights When Caught in a Bar Using a Fake ID

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  • 05-17-2017, 09:42 PM
    Haymaker
    What Are a Minor's Rights When Caught in a Bar Using a Fake ID
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: New York

    So let's say, theoretically of course, that as a 19 year old college student, you buy a fake ID to get into bars downtown. You go downtown with a group of 21+ friends. When you are downtown, a police officer approaches you and asks for ID, or the bar is raided and everyone is required to leave and show ID on the way out. What is your course of action? What are your rights?

    Let's also say that you slip your fake ID to your 21+ friend (to remove penalty of fraud from you, seeing as they cannot be searched without having done something criminal). When carded by police, you say you showed the bouncers your real ID and present the police with it, or you got past security without ID and claim you don't have ID. Can they breathalize you? What is the penalty of underage drinking? Can you remain silent? Walk away?

    I think you see where I'm going with this. If you are downtown and your bar is raided with a fake ID on your person, what are your options, what should you do, and what are you risking?

    Any help is much appreciated.
  • 05-17-2017, 10:07 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    The 19 year-old should not have a forged ID in his/her possession to begin with, and should not be breaking the law by drinking when under age 21. If the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe you have violated the law by drinking underage, the officer may ask for your ID. If you don’t produce one, you may find yourself detained until such time as the officer can verify your age. That could take hours. Producing a false ID risks adding that to the under age drinking charge. And lying about having lost the ID and trying to blame the bar for failing to check IDs is not only a scummy thing to do to the bar, if the lie is discovered you may face charges for obstruction or a similar charge. Don’t carry a false ID, don’t drink underage, and you won’t need to worry about legal problems for doing it. Order a soda or something. It is really not that hard to wait the two years to drink, and if your friends cannot accept your decision not to drink they aren't very good friends to begin with.
  • 05-17-2017, 11:13 PM
    Haymaker
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    The 19 year-old should not have a forged ID in his/her possession to begin with, and should not be breaking the law by drinking when under age 21. If the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe you have violated the law by drinking underage, the officer may ask for your ID. If you don’t produce one, you may find yourself detained until such time as the officer can verify your age. That could take hours. Producing a false ID risks adding that to the under age drinking charge. And lying about having lost the ID and trying to blame the bar for failing to check IDs is not only a scummy thing to do to the bar, if the lie is discovered you may face charges for obstruction or a similar charge. Don’t carry a false ID, don’t drink underage, and you won’t need to worry about legal problems for doing it. Order a soda or something. It is really not that hard to wait the two years to drink, and if your friends cannot accept your decision not to drink they aren't very good friends to begin with.


    I certainly agree and appreciate your input on the subject.

    However, if you are someone in this situation, couldn't you state your fifth amendment right to remain silent and walk away? If questioned ask if you are under official criminal investigation and if they say no then leave? Would it be smarter to produce your real ID or claim you don't have ID on you? And if the underage person had been drinking, how could they possibly be charged for it unless they admitted guilt, when they can always refuse a breathalyzer?

    This is also a question regarding learning my rights in general.
  • 05-18-2017, 05:09 AM
    flyingron
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    You can remain silent, but the walking away might be difficult. The officer is allowed to temporarily detain you if he has an articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed. If that rises to probable cause, he can arrest/charge the person. Since the standard for those under 21 is that they can not consume *ANY* amount of alcohol. It doesn't even take a breathalizer to convict.

    However, you've missed the point of this board. This is for people who need legal assistance, rather than the "How do I break the law and get away with it" forum.
  • 05-18-2017, 08:44 AM
    Highwayman
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    This is for people who need legal assistance, rather than the "How do I break the law and get away with it" forum.

    I concur.

    Once you get yourself in trouble you can come back to get questions answered about your specific situation. Otherwise, this is not a place for you to do your legal research/homework.
  • 05-18-2017, 09:14 AM
    cbg
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    You have the right to keep your lip zipped and to talk to an attorney before talking to the cops. You do not have a protected right under the law to lie to the cops and you very likely do not have the right to just walk away.
  • 05-18-2017, 10:45 AM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Quote:

    Quoting Haymaker
    View Post
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: New York

    So let's say, theoretically of course, that as a 19 year old college student, you buy a fake ID to get into bars downtown. You go downtown with a group of 21+ friends. When you are downtown, a police officer approaches you and asks for ID, or the bar is raided and everyone is required to leave and show ID on the way out. What is your course of action? What are your rights?

    Let's also say that you slip your fake ID to your 21+ friend (to remove penalty of fraud from you, seeing as they cannot be searched without having done something criminal). When carded by police, you say you showed the bouncers your real ID and present the police with it, or you got past security without ID and claim you don't have ID. Can they breathalize you? What is the penalty of underage drinking? Can you remain silent? Walk away?

    I think you see where I'm going with this. If you are downtown and your bar is raided with a fake ID on your person, what are your options, what should you do, and what are you risking?

    Any help is much appreciated.

    Don't get a fake ID. Why are you coming on here trying to find out how to get away with breaking the law? If you really want to push your luck try the ID. Maybe it's really good. Maybe it's not. How are your 21 and older friends immune from being searched?

    I went to the bars at my first unit with some guys I met there. I had no idea that one of them was under 21 until after we went to a bar and the guy checking IDs looked at it for a couple minutes and asked his birthdate. We went in and I was like "How old are you?" He was 20. I didn't know. He looked like he was 25 or so. I was 22 or 23 I think at the time.
  • 05-18-2017, 12:39 PM
    eerelations
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Quote:

    Quoting Haymaker
    View Post
    My question involves criminal law for the state of: New York

    So let's say, theoretically of course, that as a 19 year old college student, you buy a fake ID to get into bars downtown. You go downtown with a group of 21+ friends. When you are downtown, a police officer approaches you and asks for ID, or the bar is raided and everyone is required to leave and show ID on the way out. What is your course of action? What are your rights?

    Let's also say that you slip your fake ID to your 21+ friend (to remove penalty of fraud from you, seeing as they cannot be searched without having done something criminal). When carded by police, you say you showed the bouncers your real ID and present the police with it, or you got past security without ID and claim you don't have ID. Can they breathalize you? What is the penalty of underage drinking? Can you remain silent? Walk away?

    I think you see where I'm going with this. If you are downtown and your bar is raided with a fake ID on your person, what are your options, what should you do, and what are you risking?

    Any help is much appreciated.

    I'm having difficulty understanding how a 19-year-old college student doesn't understand the difference between "theoretically" and "hypothetically".

    And how does being downtown make any difference here? Do you think things would go any differently if you were at a bar in the 'burbs or a roadhouse in the countryside?
  • 05-18-2017, 02:52 PM
    cbg
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Well, he's evidently not man enough to own his actions and thinks a legal forum will tell him it's okay to cheat, lie, and commit fraud as long as he doesn't have to take any responsibility for them.

    He's evidently too much of a child to accept the consequences when he violates the law.

    So why should you expect any logical thinking?

    As far as his posts appear, he's just another spoiled, entitled, opinionated brat who thinks the world owes him something and that he shouldn't have to follow the same rules everyone else does.

    pfft
  • 05-18-2017, 08:08 PM
    joef
    Re: on Underage Drinking and Fake Id
    Quote:

    Quoting Haymaker
    View Post

    However, if you are someone in this situation, couldn't you state your fifth amendment right to remain silent and walk away? If questioned ask if you are under official criminal investigation and if they say no then leave? Would it be smarter to produce your real ID or claim you don't have ID on you?

    Whenever a police officer requests to see your ID, especially if they have reasonable suspicion for any criminal activity (like underage drinking), you are required to produce your correct, legal ID. Refusing could result in a charge for obstruction and if you do not produce an ID or enough information to accurately ID you, a trip to jail is likely for further investigation into who you are.
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