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Should You File a Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Seeking Temporary Custody

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  • 01-25-2017, 07:14 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Should You File a Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Seeking Temporary Custody
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: FL

    Would it be legally sufficient to order a child to be returned to the jurisdiction of the court/father before an evidentiary hearing is held on for either temporary or final judgement of time sharing between unmarried parents?

    So my prior pick up order was dissolved soley on the basis that paternity had not been established for purposes of custody, despite the filings of the notarized acknowledgements. Mom moved for and was granted her own pick up order which allowed her to regain custody and with no restriction on the childs removal from the state. Moms default was dissolved and was ordered in writing to answer in x amount of days, 1 day before i was ordered to turn over custody. She was also ordered, although verbally to petition for relocation by that same day. Mom argued that case wasnt a relocation but judge reiterated that she still must. She answered but did not petition for relocation. There was no court reporter and judge has retired.

    I moved for a hearing on temp custody, and got the other side to agree to an judicial order of paternity. I would like to move on an urgent basis for our childs return to my court jurisdiction. I've seen this advised to others but what id like to know is if it would be legally sufficient for a judge to do so before a hearing is had on time sharing, and even more so since mom has established herself in the other state for over a year now.
  • 01-25-2017, 07:59 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    You're going to be asked, "where is the urgency? what's the emergency?"

    How will you answer?
  • 01-25-2017, 09:58 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    I believe the urgency lies in maintaining the status quo that my son has come to know would be beneficial while the case is pending and shes not willing to comply with all orders of the court or acknowledges the courts authority on this issue, hence her initial default status. Shes only doing enough to get what she wants. She moved him without discussing it with me, pretending it was only for the summer and mislead me about where she truly was and hid his location at first.

    While there was no legal wrong doing by the mom, she did take him from a stable and working environment that hes enjoyed for the last half of his life. She had not been the custodial parent for 5 years but all of sudden made her own decision that did not consider his best interest, how well hes done here in school, the family he has and the care hes been receiving etc. If the purpose of child custody laws is to ensure consistency in his life then how does moving him away from a parent hes lived his whole life with before all of this for her own reasons be in his best interest. Its not like its only a 20 minute drive to see him, its 8 hours.

    I'll admit that its hard for me totally remove my feelings and what i want from this but the relationship i have with my son is just as beneficial for him as it is for me.
  • 01-26-2017, 04:58 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    I believe the urgency lies in maintaining the status quo that my son has come to know would be beneficial while the case is pending and shes not willing to comply with all orders of the court or acknowledges the courts authority on this issue, hence her initial default status. Shes only doing enough to get what she wants. She moved him without discussing it with me, pretending it was only for the summer and mislead me about where she truly was and hid his location at first.

    While there was no legal wrong doing by the mom, she did take him from a stable and working environment that hes enjoyed for the last half of his life. She had not been the custodial parent for 5 years but all of sudden made her own decision that did not consider his best interest, how well hes done here in school, the family he has and the care hes been receiving etc. If the purpose of child custody laws is to ensure consistency in his life then how does moving him away from a parent hes lived his whole life with before all of this for her own reasons be in his best interest. Its not like its only a 20 minute drive to see him, its 8 hours.

    I'll admit that its hard for me totally remove my feelings and what i want from this but the relationship i have with my son is just as beneficial for him as it is for me.

    If the child has been with mom since the beginning of last summer, then that really is his status quo now. That doesn't mean that you cannot eventually win, but it does make it less of an emergency. Even if you do win, there is a decent shot that the judge will order that he finish out the school year at mom's.
  • 01-26-2017, 06:53 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    I would initially agree, but I did regain custody in October, and had him until the very end of December. I only lost custody of him again because the court wouldnt accept that paternity had been established at birth at the 5 minute motion calendar hearings the old judge would only allow. I requested a rehearing on the subject but it was outright denied. So since i went the extra step and obtained an agreed court order of paternity, id like now for our son to be returned home here. He should be able to finish out school here and remain in the jurisdiction of his home state.

    School in her county was to resume on the 6th of January but my son only attended school for 1 week starting on the 16th and hasnt been back since.
  • 01-26-2017, 07:40 AM
    oldsmom
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    School in her county was to resume on the 6th of January but my son only attended school for 1 week starting on the 16th and hasnt been back since.

    Are you saying that your son isn't attending school? Did I read that correctly? If that is true, and you can prove it, it might be enough for an Ex Parte motion. Do you have an attorney?
  • 01-26-2017, 07:59 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting oldsmom
    View Post
    Are you saying that your son isn't attending school? Did I read that correctly? If that is true, and you can prove it, it might be enough for an Ex Parte motion. Do you have an attorney?

    It depends on WHY his son is not attending school.
  • 01-26-2017, 08:10 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Sorry i thought i edited my earlier post to continue my original thought which was wanting to point out that since hes only been in school one week there, hopefully it shouldn't be much of a hindrance to him being returned to FL. The city was declared a disaster zone after a tornado hit, which lead to the first week delay, and school resumed. then the city was hit with another one which has lead to school being out for another week if not longer.
  • 01-26-2017, 08:19 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    Sorry i thought i edited my earlier post to continue my original thought which was wanting to point out that since hes only been in school one week there, hopefully it shouldn't be much of a hindrance to him being returned to FL. The city was declared a disaster zone after a tornado hit, which lead to the first week delay, and school resumed. then the city was hit with another one which has lead to school being out for another week if not longer.

    Your son started school in GA, then got moved to FL for a couple of months, then went back to GA. Most likely the best interest of your son would be to NOT have another change before the end of the school year.
  • 01-26-2017, 08:33 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    thats a hard pill to swallow because i know what that'll also lead to.

    I also plan to argue that since it was wrongly found that paternity hadnt been determined, the mom was required to petition the court before relocating him, more so the second time since there was a case pending to determine matters of custody. As long as a child has two legally recognized parents, it isnt proper to move the childs primary place of residence more than 50 miles away from the non relocating parent.

    Does that sound like it could hold water? Its hard for me to give up without trying everything reasonably possible

    Looks like I had an outdated definition of relocation. Relocation in FL was changed to mean the change in primary residence of a parent and no longer the child.

    By not filing for custody when mom left I gave mom another legal loophole even though she left our son behind when she moved. She technically doesn't have to consider the relocation factors when we go to court

    Edit
  • 01-29-2017, 06:30 AM
    Got2many
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Does this crap happen that often? Are there really that many woman out here not taking care of they kids until one day they just decide to takem back and run? Hope i dont offend nobody but it seems like there are a bunch of dads on here getting they kids snatched from them.
  • 01-29-2017, 07:02 AM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Got2many
    View Post
    Does this crap happen that often? Are there really that many woman out here not taking care of they kids until one day they just decide to takem back and run? Hope i dont offend nobody but it seems like there are a bunch of dads on here getting they kids snatched from them.

    A bunch? There have been like two posts about this. One of them didn't even have custody. They are unmarried parents who broke up. So he had zero custody and is going to court now. If you're' an unmarried male who has a kid with a woman you need to be taking it to court and establishing your paternity and make sure your rights are set up.

    And no most women aren't like this just like not all dads are deadbeats.
  • 01-29-2017, 08:10 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    A bunch? There have been like two posts about this. One of them didn't even have custody. They are unmarried parents who broke up. So he had zero custody and is going to court now. If you're' an unmarried male who has a kid with a woman you need to be taking it to court and establishing your paternity and make sure your rights are set up.

    And no most women aren't like this just like not all dads are deadbeats.

    qwas... I think there are more like 3 or 4 recent posts about this including mine and the poster above, it may not equal a "bunch" but it does seem like its the the season for it.
    The sad truth is that I did get myself into this, not because I didn't care or was just some guy trying be petty, but because I just didnt know. Most people I think, dont go to court until something goes wrong. Parents either go because they want child support or because someone wants custody or visitation and most men only seek visitation. Prior to this i enjoyed daily and exclusive custody of my son, and I can say that i have since his birth even after the split. I didn't need to ask anyone for support because i didn't need it and i didn't need to ask for custody because i already had it. But legally speaking, i now have to chase mom through a bunch of legal loopholes and she technically doesn't have to answer for any of it and any edge that I might have had seems to be diminishing by the day.

    **Special note about FL and "establishing paternity". To become entitled to custody of a child, a unmarried father must have a court order of paternity, something signed by a judge stating that he is the father. Signing an affidavit of paternity which the law says "establishes paternity" does not do this. It only creates a presumption that you are the father and allows the state to place a legal obligation to financially support the child.
  • 01-29-2017, 09:28 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    thats a hard pill to swallow because i know what that'll also lead to.

    I also plan to argue that since it was wrongly found that paternity hadnt been determined, the mom was required to petition the court before relocating him, more so the second time since there was a case pending to determine matters of custody. As long as a child has two legally recognized parents, it isnt proper to move the childs primary place of residence more than 50 miles away from the non relocating parent.

    Does that sound like it could hold water? Its hard for me to give up without trying everything reasonably possible

    Looks like I had an outdated definition of relocation. Relocation in FL was changed to mean the change in primary residence of a parent and no longer the child.

    By not filing for custody when mom left I gave mom another legal loophole even though she left our son behind when she moved. She technically doesn't have to consider the relocation factors when we go to court

    Edit

    Do you have a statute and/or case law to support that notion?

    (No, I'm not giving you a hard time; if anything my heart breaks a little bit every time I read one of your threads)

    Quote:

    Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    A bunch? There have been like two posts about this. One of them didn't even have custody. They are unmarried parents who broke up. So he had zero custody and is going to court now. If you're' an unmarried male who has a kid with a woman you need to be taking it to court and establishing your paternity and make sure your rights are set up.

    And no most women aren't like this just like not all dads are deadbeats.

    I haven't checked the post hx, but the post comes across as somewhat snarky ... as in, the poster is seeing a lot of claims indicating "my ex stole my child" when the reality is quite, quite different.

    Or, I could be wrong.
  • 01-29-2017, 09:58 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Do you have a statute and/or case law to support that notion?

    (No, I'm not giving you a hard time; if anything my heart breaks a little bit every time I read one of your threads)

    :friendly_wink: its ok. The problem with what i wrote before was that it could have meant something in 2008, but after 2009, the definition of relocation changed. Prior to 2009, if a parent wanted to change the principle residence of a child, they needed to seek permission from the court but after 2009, if a parent wanted to change their principle residence, they needed to seek permission. I was reading pre 2009 cases, which led me to that incorrect notion

    The pre-2009 version would have worked for me because my sons principle residence was here in FL regardless of where mom lived but post 2009, since mom had already changed her address before i petitioned for custody, the court may lack the authority to order him back before a hearing on best interest is held.

    When mom got out of default, judge gave her less than 2 weeks to answer. She did, basically admitting and denying the lines in my petition for custody but didn't file a counter. Does that mean anything?
  • 02-08-2017, 11:57 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Update:::Hearing didnt go well.

    Moms lawyer dropped her 5 minutes before the hearing. Irreconcilable differences
    Judge wasnt inclined to send him back home because of school but ordered mom to provide 100% transportation for spring break to and from. He then set a final hearing for April as he wants to resolve this before summer starts. He told me that he wont need any testimony from doctors or teachers, but for me to just bring all the records i have regarding health and education. I cant read him but i could tell atleast that he wasnt impressed that mom took our son and then enrolled him in failing school. Her excuse for the poor school rating was that the school accepts students from a wide area instead of a more isolated area.
  • 02-09-2017, 09:02 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    Update:::Hearing didnt go well.

    Moms lawyer dropped her 5 minutes before the hearing. Irreconcilable differences
    Judge wasnt inclined to send him back home because of school but ordered mom to provide 100% transportation for spring break to and from. He then set a final hearing for April as he wants to resolve this before summer starts. He told me that he wont need any testimony from doctors or teachers, but for me to just bring all the records i have regarding health and education. I cant read him but i could tell atleast that he wasnt impressed that mom took our son and then enrolled him in failing school. Her excuse for the poor school rating was that the school accepts students from a wide area instead of a more isolated area.

    He's going to rule in Mom's favor. :/
  • 02-09-2017, 04:05 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    i dont necessarily rule that out but it would mean the judge ignores alot of the "best interest" factors and all of the "relocation" factors.
  • 02-09-2017, 04:07 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    i dont necessarily rule that out but it would mean the judge ignores alot of the "best interest" factors and all of the "relocation" factors.

    Best interest is going to include not disrupting him yet again, I fear.
  • 02-09-2017, 04:34 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    but thats what i mean, that alone cant be the basis for a decision on initial custody and relocation, can it?

    in reverse, what dad gets away with this?

    ultimately, im afraid the below can get ignored:

    the history of my son and our relationship
    myself being the primary caregiver for over 5 years on and sharing a home with him since birth
    the reasons she took him unilaterily and then hid him
    the relationship with his siblings
    his stability and quality of education here
    his moms really bad history of evictions (i know its been said that this is petty, but it really says alot when youve been evicted 3 times in 5 years when you share expenses with a family member, have a well paying job and dont pay child support)
    the fact that her move didnt actually improve her quality of life, not a similar or better paying job
    the cost on myself to try to preserve even a quarter of the time my son and i are used to spending with each other and family
  • 02-09-2017, 06:20 PM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    but thats what i mean, that alone cant be the basis for a decision on initial custody and relocation, can it?

    It possibly can after all of the disruption that he has experienced in the last year.

    Quote:

    in reverse, what dad gets away with this?
    Just as many dads as moms. Not very many and the total circumstances have to be right.

    Quote:

    ultimately, im afraid the below can get ignored:

    the history of my son and our relationship
    myself being the primary caregiver for over 5 years on and sharing a home with him since birth
    the reasons she took him unilaterily and then hid him
    the relationship with his siblings
    his stability and quality of education here
    his moms really bad history of evictions (i know its been said that this is petty, but it really says alot when youve been evicted 3 times in 5 years when you share expenses with a family member, have a well paying job and dont pay child support)
    the fact that her move didnt actually improve her quality of life, not a similar or better paying job
    the cost on myself to try to preserve even a quarter of the time my son and i are used to spending with each other and family
    You will just have to do the best that you can to argue the case in your favor.
  • 02-10-2017, 05:00 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    I plan to. What's the best defense to the "settled/status quo" argument, I'm sure the mom will want to rely on?

    While I can't speak on whether or not he has adjusted to his environment, his grades haven't slipped in school, not that I expect it to either considering...
  • 02-10-2017, 05:54 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    I plan to. What's the best defense to the "settled/status quo" argument, I'm sure the mom will want to rely on?

    While I can't speak on whether or not he has adjusted to his environment, his grades haven't slipped in school, not that I expect it to either considering...

    Alright, you're going to have to humour me here. Give me a timeline please from last August - when Mom refused to return the child - to now ... including the bits about you perhapsmaybe getting Mom there under perhapsmaybealittlebitshady pretenses resulting in you taking the child back, and where you are now.
  • 02-10-2017, 07:05 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Alright, you're going to have to humour me here. Give me a timeline please from last August - when Mom refused to return the child - to now ... including the bits about you perhapsmaybe getting Mom there under perhapsmaybealittlebitshady pretenses resulting in you taking the child back, and where you are now.

    Well August is when I learn that she intends to keep him and I filed my action.
    I shortly after, request the pick up order which gets granted. Mom defaults.
    I file in other state a domestication action but get a hearing 45 days later which results in leaving empty handed, might I also add that by that point, ive had 2 opportunities just to take my son back to FL.

    October-December
    Mom comes for canceled case management with GM and I enforce the pick up order.
    Son is back home and put in school.
    I go to a case management and return hearing on my pick up order, and get told that I don't have rights but ultimately my son stays because the mom didn't put the issue on the docket for that day and order was already granted.
    Mom moves to dissolve orders and default, which gets set for mid December.
    I motion for temporary custody and decide to take my chances with GM.
    Mom then moves for her own ex parte pick up order which gets granted at same hearing but Mom gets told to leave son with me for remainder of December because of school.
    Ordered to mediate, impasse.
    I motion for stay of judgement pending temp custody hearing, denied; then motion for rehearing, denied.

    Jan-Feb
    I get a new judge, old one retires.
    I get an order of paternity and move for the return to jurisdiction which gets denied on the sole issue of letting son finish out school with mom and a Final judgement hearing set for April to have resolved before summer. Temp custody hearing canceled at judges request. He wants to hear the issue
  • 02-10-2017, 07:30 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    So he's with Mom now, and has been since ... ?

    (you see how much of a pain in the arse it is when you don't keep everything together in one thread?)
  • 02-11-2017, 05:54 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    So he's with Mom now, and has been since ... ?

    (you see how much of a pain in the arse it is when you don't keep everything together in one thread?)

    I love you too :cool:

    But he's been back since the end of Dec when school let out for winter break here in FL.

    As of today that means he's been there for about 6 weeks

    One could argue that paternity and temp custody could have been addressed before mom took our son but mom's ability to dissolve a pick up order or set aside a default was a matter of right and was allowed to be resolved on 5 minute motion calendar hearing where my motions by comparison required special set hearings which are hard to get in a timely manner
  • 02-11-2017, 06:16 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    I love you too :cool:

    But he's been back since the end of Dec when school let out for winter break here in FL.

    As of today that means he's been there for about 6 weeks

    One could argue that paternity and temp custody could have been addressed before mom took our son but mom's ability to dissolve a pick up order or set aside a default was a matter of right and was allowed to be resolved on 5 minute motion calendar hearing where my motions by comparison required special set hearings which are hard to get in a timely manner

    Nevertheless, by your own admission is appears that the judge has ruled that the child is to stay with mom until the school year ends, therefore making any more motions to bring him back sooner than that would be spinning your wheels.
  • 02-11-2017, 06:29 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    yes my last motion for return and temp custody were denied. I wont move again for it, especially since the final hearing is set for April. Id just been trying to do everything i possibly could to get this resolved before now.

    I already know what her arguments are for maintaining custody which im confident can be overcome. Its basically hearsay vs. facts. Despite that, I realize that since she has the go ahead to keep him til then which will total another 4 months, that she'll use the "settled in" defense. Theres a relocation statute that says that if temporary relocation is allowed that the court isnt to consider the time the child is away but what judge wont look at that, whether good or bad?
  • 02-11-2017, 07:59 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    yes my last motion for return and temp custody were denied. I wont move again for it, especially since the final hearing is set for April. Id just been trying to do everything i possibly could to get this resolved before now.

    I already know what her arguments are for maintaining custody which im confident can be overcome. Its basically hearsay vs. facts. Despite that, I realize that since she has the go ahead to keep him til then which will total another 4 months, that she'll use the "settled in" defense. Theres a relocation statute that says that if temporary relocation is allowed that the court isnt to consider the time the child is away but what judge wont look at that, whether good or bad?

    I do not see how a judge could avoid looking at that if the judge is to make a decision based on the best interest of the child.
  • 02-11-2017, 08:11 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    i agree. I just want to be prepared for the argument
  • 02-11-2017, 09:40 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    I think you're being painfully and perhaps dangerously overconfident and I also think you are foolish if you DON'T get an attorney on board - NOW.

    If you DO have an attorney, you need to stop brainstorming with people who don't know your case ... even though if might feel like many of us have been inwardly groaning for this poor child for months.

    (And I know I'm not alone there)

    This is not said to piss you off, or hurt you, but rather to impress on you as much as possible that you are not in as strong a position as you think you are.

    Did you ever read passiondad's threads here? Look for him too "down the street" (the other forum you posted this to ... ) as "signspinner".

    Read. He was absolutely IN THE RIGHT when his mess - which also started in Florida - started. He lost, and lost hard.
  • 02-11-2017, 10:40 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    I've read a few of the post and I don't disagree with your assessment. His case though was heavily convoluted and prolonged with other issues.

    In my opinion, I'm not over confident but I have the facts on my side and she's put herself in a situation where's she can easily be proved wrong. I just need to get enough time in court to bring it to light.

    She disputes my claim that I had my son the majority of the time while she had every other weekend but the facts are that he's been registered in schools that belong to my district. I live and work 5 minutes away from the school and she lived 30 minutes away while working 1 hour away. Her work schedule wouldn't have allowed her to either take him to school or pick him up and she worked every other weekend.

    Medical records show our son stayed with me including records that she filled out and signed.

    She claims that I agreed to her keeping him prior to her move but she has no proof of that but text message conversations throughout the summer shows that we discussed our plans for her to buy his uniforms for the school here and her agreement to no longer claim him for tax purposes, which wouldn't happen if there was such an agreement for her to keep him.

    She disputes being evicted multiple times but the records exists. Her UCCJEA(sworn to in court) lists addresses that conflict with the eviction records.

    On the subject of child support, she wrote one letter saying that I'm fighting for custody to avoid child support but then in another she claims she took me off.

    She's not keeping up with her lies and there is a clear paper trail that exists to prove my side of things.

    Everything else she wants to complain about is hearsay and the judge has already warned her about it.
  • 02-11-2017, 11:51 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Please refresh my memory; you mention that you had another hearing regarding paternity. Are you or are you not the legal father. I'm not asking where the child has lived or about your relationship with the child. I'm simply asking if you are the legal father. You signed the AOP, you had a court ordered DNA test and prevailed as the father...anything LEGAL that makes the case that you ARE the legal father.

    I'm asking because I simply refuse to read all of this thread and other related threads again.
  • 02-11-2017, 12:32 PM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    I've read a few of the post and I don't disagree with your assessment. His case though was heavily convoluted and prolonged with other issues.

    In my opinion, I'm not over confident but I have the facts on my side and she's put herself in a situation where's she can easily be proved wrong. I just need to get enough time in court to bring it to light.

    She disputes my claim that I had my son the majority of the time while she had every other weekend but the facts are that he's been registered in schools that belong to my district. I live and work 5 minutes away from the school and she lived 30 minutes away while working 1 hour away. Her work schedule wouldn't have allowed her to either take him to school or pick him up and she worked every other weekend.

    That doesn't necessarily prove that you had him the majority of the time. Its something but not hard proof.

    Quote:

    Medical records show our son stayed with me including records that she filled out and signed.
    That is again helpful.

    Quote:

    She claims that I agreed to her keeping him prior to her move but she has no proof of that but text message conversations throughout the summer shows that we discussed our plans for her to buy his uniforms for the school here and her agreement to no longer claim him for tax purposes, which wouldn't happen if there was such an agreement for her to keep him.
    I don't know whether your judge will entertain text messages as evidence or not. Some won't. They can be faked.

    Quote:

    She disputes being evicted multiple times but the records exists. Her UCCJEA(sworn to in court) lists addresses that conflict with the eviction records.
    Not relevant to the best interests of the child.

    Quote:

    On the subject of child support, she wrote one letter saying that I'm fighting for custody to avoid child support but then in another she claims she took me off.
    Not really relevant to the best interests of the child.

    I agree with Dogmatique that you are dangerously overconfident...and just like she is, I am on your side.
  • 02-11-2017, 12:59 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting AmericanDadof5
    View Post
    I've read a few of the post and I don't disagree with your assessment. His case though was heavily convoluted and prolonged with other issues.

    In my opinion, I'm not over confident but I have the facts on my side and she's put herself in a situation where's she can easily be proved wrong. I just need to get enough time in court to bring it to light.

    She disputes my claim that I had my son the majority of the time while she had every other weekend but the facts are that he's been registered in schools that belong to my district. I live and work 5 minutes away from the school and she lived 30 minutes away while working 1 hour away. Her work schedule wouldn't have allowed her to either take him to school or pick him up and she worked every other weekend.

    Medical records show our son stayed with me including records that she filled out and signed.

    She claims that I agreed to her keeping him prior to her move but she has no proof of that but text message conversations throughout the summer shows that we discussed our plans for her to buy his uniforms for the school here and her agreement to no longer claim him for tax purposes, which wouldn't happen if there was such an agreement for her to keep him.

    She disputes being evicted multiple times but the records exists. Her UCCJEA(sworn to in court) lists addresses that conflict with the eviction records.

    On the subject of child support, she wrote one letter saying that I'm fighting for custody to avoid child support but then in another she claims she took me off.

    She's not keeping up with her lies and there is a clear paper trail that exists to prove my side of things.

    Everything else she wants to complain about is hearsay and the judge has already warned her about it.

    I honestly don't think you're seeing what we're seeing; the pendulum isn't swinging nearly as much in your favor as you think and what you think are definite marks against her likely won't matter too much at all. Then there's the elephant in the room ... the longer your son stays with Mom the less likely it is that the court will rule in your favor no matter what evidence you may or may not have.

    Sorry, but I can't help you further. Please, do whatever it take to get an attorney because I just don't see this ending well for you.
  • 02-11-2017, 01:20 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    I honestly don't think you're seeing what we're seeing; the pendulum isn't swinging nearly as much in your favor as you think and what you think are definite marks against her likely won't matter too much at all. Then there's the elephant in the room ... the longer your son stays with Mom the less likely it is that the court will rule in your favor no matter what evidence you may or may not have.

    Sorry, but I can't help you further. Please, do whatever it take to get an attorney because I just don't see this ending well for you.

    Believe me guys/gals, I do get it. I realize like you do that the longer it last, the less powerful my reasons for having him back are. I'll do what I can with I have. I'll do my best for him even if i cant be with him everyday anymore.

    Thanks for the responses. I'll update you with the results come April

    Could you guys/gals, maybe highlight which of these factors really and truly have any weight in court, so that i have a better idea of where to focus. Even though this case isnt a relocation case in the strictest sense, the judge has agreed that relocation factors will matter

    Best Interest
    (a) The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to facilitate and encourage a close and continuing parent-child relationship, to honor the time-sharing schedule, and to be reasonable when changes are required.
    (b) The anticipated division of parental responsibilities after the litigation, including the extent to which parental responsibilities will be delegated to third parties.
    (c) The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to determine, consider, and act upon the needs of the child as opposed to the needs or desires of the parent.
    (d) The length of time the child has lived in a stable, satisfactory environment and the desirability of maintaining continuity.
    (e) The geographic viability of the parenting plan, with special attention paid to the needs of school-age children and the amount of time to be spent traveling to effectuate the parenting plan. This factor does not create a presumption for or against relocation of either parent with a child.
    (f) The moral fitness of the parents.
    (g) The mental and physical health of the parents.
    (h) The home, school, and community record of the child.
    (i) The reasonable preference of the child, if the court deems the child to be of sufficient intelligence, understanding, and experience to express a preference.
    (j) The demonstrated knowledge, capacity, and disposition of each parent to be informed of the circumstances of the minor child, including, but not limited to, the child’s friends, teachers, medical care providers, daily activities, and favorite things.
    (k) The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to provide a consistent routine for the child, such as discipline, and daily schedules for homework, meals, and bedtime.
    (l) The demonstrated capacity of each parent to communicate with and keep the other parent informed of issues and activities regarding the minor child, and the willingness of each parent to adopt a unified front on all major issues when dealing with the child.
    (m) Evidence of domestic violence, sexual violence, child abuse, child abandonment, or child neglect, regardless of whether a prior or pending action relating to those issues has been brought. If the court accepts evidence of prior or pending actions regarding domestic violence, sexual violence, child abuse, child abandonment, or child neglect, the court must specifically acknowledge in writing that such evidence was considered when evaluating the best interests of the child.
    (n) Evidence that either parent has knowingly provided false information to the court regarding any prior or pending action regarding domestic violence, sexual violence, child abuse, child abandonment, or child neglect.
    (o) The particular parenting tasks customarily performed by each parent and the division of parental responsibilities before the institution of litigation and during the pending litigation, including the extent to which parenting responsibilities were undertaken by third parties.
    (p) The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to participate and be involved in the child’s school and extracurricular activities.
    (q) The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to maintain an environment for the child which is free from substance abuse.
    (r) The capacity and disposition of each parent to protect the child from the ongoing litigation as demonstrated by not discussing the litigation with the child, not sharing documents or electronic media related to the litigation with the child, and refraining from disparaging comments about the other parent to the child.
    (s) The developmental stages and needs of the child and the demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to meet the child’s developmental needs.
    (t) Any other factor that is relevant to the determination of a specific parenting plan, including the time-sharing schedule.

    Relocation
    (a) The nature, quality, extent of involvement, and duration of the child’s relationship with the parent or other person proposing to relocate with the child and with the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the child’s life.
    (b) The age and developmental stage of the child, the needs of the child, and the likely impact the relocation will have on the child’s physical, educational, and emotional development, taking into consideration any special needs of the child.
    (c) The feasibility of preserving the relationship between the nonrelocating parent or other person and the child through substitute arrangements that take into consideration the logistics of contact, access, and time-sharing, as well as the financial circumstances of the parties; whether those factors are sufficient to foster a continuing meaningful relationship between the child and the nonrelocating parent or other person; and the likelihood of compliance with the substitute arrangements by the relocating parent or other person once he or she is out of the jurisdiction of the court.
    (d) The child’s preference, taking into consideration the age and maturity of the child.
    (e) Whether the relocation will enhance the general quality of life for both the parent or other person seeking the relocation and the child, including, but not limited to, financial or emotional benefits or educational opportunities.
    (f) The reasons each parent or other person is seeking or opposing the relocation.
    (g) The current employment and economic circumstances of each parent or other person and whether the proposed relocation is necessary to improve the economic circumstances of the parent or other person seeking relocation of the child.
    (h) That the relocation is sought in good faith and the extent to which the objecting parent has fulfilled his or her financial obligations to the parent or other person seeking relocation, including child support, spousal support, and marital property and marital debt obligations.
    (i) The career and other opportunities available to the objecting parent or other person if the relocation occurs.
    (j) A history of substance abuse or domestic violence as defined in s. 741.28 or which meets the criteria of s. 39.806(1)(d) by either parent, including a consideration of the severity of such conduct and the failure or success of any attempts at rehabilitation.
    (k) Any other factor affecting the best interest of the child or as set forth in s. 61.13.
  • 02-12-2017, 06:45 AM
    llworking
    Re: Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    They all count. There is not one that is necessarily more important than the others. However, I would tend to feel that putting the child's best interest ahead of anything that has to do with your own feelings and best interest is probably the most important.
  • 04-09-2017, 09:30 AM
    AmericanDadof5
    Should You File a Motion for Return to Jurisdiction Before Temporary Custody
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: FL

    I wanted to stop by and just give an update.

    If you dont remember:

    • I have 1 child im pursuing rights to.
    • His mother and I never married. Never established time sharing in court. I am on the paternity affidavit, the birth certificate and was even ordered to pay child support but "Paternity" had never been established.
    • He's 10 and at age 5, his mother and i separated and he stayed in my primary day to day care with mom mostly exercising was resembles every other weekend overnights with an occasional overnight every other week.
    • She moved away over a year ago to GA leaving him fully in my care. She moved away once before this but later came back.
    • She took him to GA for the summer and then made a unilateral decision to keep him and enroll him in school. Less than 2 months had passed.
    • I filed for shared custody but that child returns to FL with me and then for a emergency pick up order. The pick up was granted but time sharing is still pending.
    • I regained physical custody in October using the previously granted pick up order but was later ordered in December to relinquish custody to mom by way of her Pick up order. My pick up order was set aside because it was determined that i had not established paternity like i believed i did.
    • After regaining custody, mom no longer disputes paternity.
    • I move for his return but told by the judge that child will remain in GA with Mom citing school as the reason alone. He orders a final hearing to be held and that day in court is coming soon. Factors to be determined are Best Interest and Relocation.
    • Judge orders mom to bring child for his spring break to me.



    Update
    • I subpoena mom for deposition.
    • I then moved to have a GAL assigned. GAL was present for deposition and met with son during spring break.
    • The GAL has completed their investigation and returned a recommendation in my favor.
    • Final hearing is in less than 20 days
  • 04-09-2017, 10:08 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Florida Unwed Dads Road to Custody
    Please keep updating us, Dad - I think if your situation quite often, and I do occasionally stop by the boys room to check in, too :)
  • 04-19-2017, 07:29 PM
    AmericanDadof5
    Re: Florida Unwed Dads Road to Custody
    Update:
    That upcoming hearing has now been pushed back to an undetermined date.
    The judge that had me forgo my temporary custody hearing in lieu of a Final Hearing has decided to transfer my case to the judge that is over the child support case that was opened long ago.
    This is a huge problem because that judge had already recused himself from my time sharing case earlier on.
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