Do You Have to Pay Child Support Even Though the Child Doesn't Want to See You

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Indiana

My X successfully poisoned my child against me with the help of a very biased man hating Guardian ad Litem and is receiving support based on no visitation. That doesn't seem fair and would, to me, promote poisoning of the child in cases where the mother is money hungry. Is there case history for paying support based on what the visitation should be? I have no problem paying and accept that it is my responsibility!

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Quoting kcstone

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My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Indiana

My X successfully poisoned my child against me with the help of a very biased man hating Guardian ad Litem and is receiving support based on no visitation. That doesn't seem fair and would, to me, promote poisoning of the child in cases where the mother is money hungry. Is there case history for paying support based on what the visitation should be? I have no problem paying and accept that it is my responsibility!

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Before we go further, I have a question.

Why are you not enforcing visitation? The answer may actually make a difference regarding your options.

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Quoting kcstone

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My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Indiana

My X successfully poisoned my child against me with the help of a very biased man hating Guardian ad Litem and is receiving support based on no visitation. That doesn't seem fair and would, to me, promote poisoning of the child in cases where the mother is money hungry. Is there case history for paying support based on what the visitation should be? I have no problem paying and accept that it is my responsibility!

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Yes you still have to pay support even if you don't see your child. Child support and visitation are two separate things.

If your ex is not allowing you your court ordered visitation time, take her to court for contempt. The child doesn't get to choose whether or not he/she sees the other parent. Support is based on income.

Child claims she doesn't want anything to do with me and my family; took her to the mall one day to shop with friends and haven't seen her since!

With the statement that chid support is calculated based upon there being no visitation, it would seem reasonable to infer that the court's order does not provide for any visitation. If that's the case, the court is going to expect you to obey the order.

If the matter has been to court, with the court awarding support and denying any visitation, then the remedies are to (a) move for reconsideration, (b) appeal, or (c) later seek to modify the order based on factual developments since the last order. If you weren't working with a laywer during prior proceedings, it's long past time to retain a lawyer; if you were, you can discuss your options with your lawyer.

Filed the Motion for Contempt and all the court did was issue a vale verbal threat to allow it then had a Guardian ad Litem support her libelous and slanderous contention that I was emotionally and mentally harming her. The child claims she wants nothing to do with me and my family! What's to keep a child and the other parent from colluding for money?

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Quoting kcstone

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Filed the Motion for Contempt and all the court did was issue a vale verbal threat to allow it then had a Guardian ad Litem support her libelous and slanderous contention that I was emotionally and mentally harming her. The child claims she wants nothing to do with me and my family! What's to keep a child and the other parent from colluding for money?

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So do you or do you NOT have a current order for visitation? How old is your child? What proof did Mom provide that you were harming the child?

Yes, there is an order for visitation but the judge claimed that she couldn't make my daughter see me if she didn't want to see me. This is a text book case of parental alienation and the Guardian ad Litem, who testified in court that she didn't recognize parental alienation, went on the war path against me including admitting a hastily prepared report that basically claimed me and my family weren't fit to have children. I brought forth witness after witness speaking of the great relationship that I had with my daughter and all the x brought was her new hubby and the GAL; unfortunately my daughter is culpable as the new hubby is a major earner and I'm sure there were promises made. I would think that judges would be weary of making non custodial parents pay out the nose when a child refuses to see a parent; it sets a dangerous precedent for alienation possibilities. My daughter is now 16 but this started shortly after her 14th birthday. Proof? Innuendo, accusations but no proof other than the biased GAL and and interview between the judge and my daughter.

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Quoting kcstone

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Yes, there is an order for visitation but the judge claimed that she couldn't make my daughter see me if she didn't want to see me. This is a text book case of parental alienation and the Guardian ad Litem, who testified in court that she didn't recognize parental alienation, went on the war path against me including admitting a hastily prepared report that basically claimed me and my family weren't fit to have children. I brought forth witness after witness speaking of the great relationship that I had with my daughter and all the x brought was her new hubby and the GAL; unfortunately my daughter is culpable as the new hubby is a major earner and I'm sure there were promises made. I would think that judges would be weary of making non custodial parents pay out the nose when a child refuses to see a parent; it sets a dangerous precedent for alienation possibilities. My daughter is now 16 but this started shortly after her 14th birthday. Proof? Innuendo, accusations but no proof other than the biased GAL and and interview between the judge and my daughter.

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I have to ask. What exactly was the GAL saying?

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Quoting kcstone

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Yes, there is an order for visitation but the judge claimed that she couldn't make my daughter see me if she didn't want to see me.

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So, whether or not you believe it is fair, your child support order already takes into consideration the fact that you don't have visitation.

OMG, the GAL! She requested and received a continuance because of the amount of witnesses I presented and then spoke to only 4 of the 21 I provided, stating, if she couldn't reach them then it was their responsibility to get back to her. She spoke to my mother, my aunt who was like a grandmother to my daughter, and two friends. Those were the four; a fifth friend was interviewed the day after she submitted her report to the court. One of my friends had been through alienation issues with his x and she basically discredited his testimony and comments because of her opinion of parental alienation. Additionally, she spent all of 40 minutes with me and my daughter which I found very odd. What did she say? She claimed that I was mentally and emotionally harming my daughter with nothing but the words from the parent as ammunition. As most non custodial parents do, I spoiled my daughter beyond belief but I ran up against a woman who portrayed herself as the poor victim. It's history but I will be seeking relief if at all possible.

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Quoting kcstone

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Yes, there is an order for visitation but the judge claimed that she couldn't make my daughter see me if she didn't want to see me. This is a text book case of parental alienation and the Guardian ad Litem, who testified in court that she didn't recognize parental alienation, went on the war path against me including admitting a hastily prepared report that basically claimed me and my family weren't fit to have children. I brought forth witness after witness speaking of the great relationship that I had with my daughter and all the x brought was her new hubby and the GAL; unfortunately my daughter is culpable as the new hubby is a major earner and I'm sure there were promises made. I would think that judges would be weary of making non custodial parents pay out the nose when a child refuses to see a parent; it sets a dangerous precedent for alienation possibilities. My daughter is now 16 but this started shortly after her 14th birthday. Proof? Innuendo, accusations but no proof other than the biased GAL and and interview between the judge and my daughter.

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This happened because your daughter is 16. Judges in Indiana generally will not force 16 and 17 year olds to visit a parent if the 16 or 17 year old demonstrates a reason that is something other than a "grass is greener" mentality.

And no, the idea that your child is colluding with her mother in order to make you pay more child support is grasping.

Something happened between you and your daughter (and perhaps your family as well) that made her not want to see you anymore. You KNOW what that is. The guardian ad litem recognized that and made recommendations accordingly.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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So, whether or not you believe it is fair, your child support order already takes into consideration the fact that you don't have visitation.

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The Court changed/increased my support to reflect that I have no visitation and my point, or more specifically question, is, where is the check and balance to prevent custodial parents from doing what my x did, poison the child to where she didn't want to see me so she could get more support?

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Quoting kcstone

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The Court changed/increased my support to reflect that I have no visitation and my point, or more specifically question, is, where is the check and balance to prevent custodial parents from doing what my x did, poison the child to where she didn't want to see me so she could get more support?

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It's actually fairly rare for a child to be allowed to decide whether or not s/he visits the parent.

It's far more common when it has been proven that forced visitation is detrimental to the child's welfare.

So. What happened?

You seem to have the idea that there is a direct correlation between the amount of child support and seeing the child. I can assure you that it is by no means a given that the NCP not seeing the child automatically means that the CP gets more child support.

So what happened here?

What happened? That's the $64k question! Mr. Knowitall above would say that I KNOW what happened but like most people he's assuming that there's some deep dark secret, but there wasn't. My family, friends and church are all dumbfounded that a 14 year old would turn like she did and I/we have no doubt that it was alienation at it's worst. My daughter was active with our church, my family and loved traveling with me, and it all came to a screeching halt once the GAL became involved; it's that simple and I'm offended by knowitall's innuendo but it's easy to hide behind a post! She cut out cousins who were like sisters as well. I'll add that the other parent originally asked for no visitation in her orders and frequently interfered with my parenting time. She claimed that I attacked her early in the proceedings which caused me to take a lie detector test (I passed) proving she lied but polygraph results are not admissible in Indiana. My guess the bleeding heart GAL bought her victim's act and set out to get me, and she did. Interesting twist of fate; the GAL became incapacitated shortly after the hearings and had to leave her practice. I would never wish ill health on anyone but maybe karma came back and bit her in the a*s! She falsely claimed that she interviewed a former neighbor and his wife and then blamed her staff. Thanks for your comments and at the end of the day, I picked her as my spouse!

My x successfully petitioned the court for more child support as a result of me not being able to exercise parenting time. No parenting time, no parenting time credit!

Mr. Knowitall please accept my apologies as it was IIworking that made the assumption that I KNOW what happened! I can only assume that IIworking is a woman that believes everything a woman says is true and that a woman would never lie to get her way! My conscience is clear as I know that I was a good father and that the other parent was planning all along to remove me and my family from my daughter's life. Her attorney conveniently and deliberately left out the custody verbiage in the Mediated Agreement which caused the judge not to accept. I KNOW THAT HAPPENED!

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Quoting kcstone

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What happened? That's the $64k question! Mr. Knowitall above would say that I KNOW what happened but like most people he's assuming that there's some deep dark secret, but there wasn't. My family, friends and church are all dumbfounded that a 14 year old would turn like she did and I/we have no doubt that it was alienation at it's worst. My daughter was active with our church, my family and loved traveling with me, and it all came to a screeching halt once the GAL became involved; it's that simple and I'm offended by knowitall's innuendo but it's easy to hide behind a post! She cut out cousins who were like sisters as well. I'll add that the other parent originally asked for no visitation in her orders and frequently interfered with my parenting time. She claimed that I attacked her early in the proceedings which caused me to take a lie detector test (I passed) proving she lied but polygraph results are not admissible in Indiana. My guess the bleeding heart GAL bought her victim's act and set out to get me, and she did. Interesting twist of fate; the GAL became incapacitated shortly after the hearings and had to leave her practice. I would never wish ill health on anyone but maybe karma came back and bit her in the a*s! She falsely claimed that she interviewed a former neighbor and his wife and then blamed her staff. Thanks for your comments and at the end of the day, I picked her as my spouse!

My x successfully petitioned the court for more child support as a result of me not being able to exercise parenting time. No parenting time, no parenting time credit!

Mr. Knowitall please accept my apologies as it was IIworking that made the assumption that I KNOW what happened! I can only assume that IIworking is a woman that believes everything a woman says is true and that a woman would never lie to get her way! My conscience is clear as I know that I was a good father and that the other parent was planning all along to remove me and my family from my daughter's life. Her attorney conveniently and deliberately left out the custody verbiage in the Mediated Agreement which caused the judge not to accept. I KNOW THAT HAPPENED!

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You DO know that passing a lie detector does NOT mean that the accuser lied ... right?

Given how you've comported yourself here it's not difficult to see why you're in this predicament.

Pay your child support as ordered. Leave your child alone.

Teen-aged girls are funny critters. Sometimes things you'd never expect hit them badly. I know my ex will tell everyone that I did whatever it was that screwed up their relationship, but ..... nope. And it's sad.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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You DO know that passing a lie detector does NOT mean that the accuser lied ... right?

Given how you've comported yourself here it's not difficult to see why you're in this predicament.

Pay your child support as ordered. Leave your child alone.

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I'm not sure that I agree with leaving her alone. But definitely a soft touch and a gentle hand. Ask if she'll meet you for brunch, just to talk, and perhaps a walk after. No pressure, no anger at Mom (or kiddo!), just a sincere "I'm sorry we're in this position - what can I do to help change it?" That would have gone a long way with my youngest. And really listen to what she has to say.

She lied; I know it, she knows it and God knows it! It was a very calculated and deliberate plan by her and her attorney to poison the court against me and make her out to be a victim. You attorneys sure stick together!

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Quoting kcstone

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She lied; I know it, she knows it and God knows it! It was a very calculated and deliberate plan by her and her attorney to poison the court against me and make her out to be a victim.

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Be that as it may, what you do from here on out is up to you. Jumanji gave you an excellent suggestion. I will add to it and suggest you find a way to process your anger or you won't have a prayer at trying to salvage a relationship with your child. Even if your child has been poisoned as you say, you are not making the situation any better. Two wrongs do not make a right sir, and quite frankly, when it comes to who should be doing the right thing between a grown man and a teenager, you really should be the bigger person.

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Quoting kcstone

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She lied; I know it, she knows it and God knows it! It was a very calculated and deliberate plan by her and her attorney to poison the court against me and make her out to be a victim. You attorneys sure stick together!

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Read the terms of service, sir.

ETA: Do you understand that I have sat on the other side of your situation, having done nothing but encourage child and Dad. I KNOW why she has no relationship with her father, why they haven't spoken for 7+ years, why he is it not going to be invited to her wedding. But I have no doubt that, were you to ask him, he'd tell you he had nothing to do with it and it's all her and my fault.

At this point, you, sir, need to love your child more than you hate her mother. If you truly believe she has been poisoned by Mom, can you not see that she is also a victim? And that the way to clear the fog from her eyes is by behaving in exactly the opposite manner from how Mom has painted you? I would, quite honestly, look into some therapy. First for yourself to help you get past your anger and bitternees, then in a therapuetic setting with your daughter. Otherwise, you will grow into an angry, old, and lonely man.

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Quoting kcstone

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What happened? That's the $64k question! Mr. Knowitall above would say that I KNOW what happened but like most people he's assuming that there's some deep dark secret, but there wasn't. My family, friends and church are all dumbfounded that a 14 year old would turn like she did and I/we have no doubt that it was alienation at it's worst. My daughter was active with our church, my family and loved traveling with me, and it all came to a screeching halt once the GAL became involved; it's that simple and I'm offended by knowitall's innuendo but it's easy to hide behind a post! She cut out cousins who were like sisters as well. I'll add that the other parent originally asked for no visitation in her orders and frequently interfered with my parenting time. She claimed that I attacked her early in the proceedings which caused me to take a lie detector test (I passed) proving she lied but polygraph results are not admissible in Indiana. My guess the bleeding heart GAL bought her victim's act and set out to get me, and she did. Interesting twist of fate; the GAL became incapacitated shortly after the hearings and had to leave her practice. I would never wish ill health on anyone but maybe karma came back and bit her in the a*s! She falsely claimed that she interviewed a former neighbor and his wife and then blamed her staff. Thanks for your comments and at the end of the day, I picked her as my spouse!

My x successfully petitioned the court for more child support as a result of me not being able to exercise parenting time. No parenting time, no parenting time credit!

Mr. Knowitall please accept my apologies as it was IIworking that made the assumption that I KNOW what happened! I can only assume that IIworking is a woman that believes everything a woman says is true and that a woman would never lie to get her way! My conscience is clear as I know that I was a good father and that the other parent was planning all along to remove me and my family from my daughter's life. Her attorney conveniently and deliberately left out the custody verbiage in the Mediated Agreement which caused the judge not to accept. I KNOW THAT HAPPENED!

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Well that is quite likely the most sexist comment I've read today. I find it sad that you assume all women will automatically believe other women who are CPs. That's not true at all. If you don't like people to assume things about you perhaps you shouldn't assume things about others.

It does seem you have left things out and it's quite possible something happened that changed your daughter's mind about seeing you. Maybe it was a toxic ex. Maybe it was you. We will never know as we aren't there or part of it. We only get your story and no other sides to the story.

Perhaps you want to hire a lawyer who can give you actual legal advice as you cannot get that here. You also should seek some counseling as you sound slightly unstable.

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Quoting kcstone

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She lied; I know it, she knows it and God knows it! It was a very calculated and deliberate plan by her and her attorney to poison the court against me and make her out to be a victim. You attorneys sure stick together!

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You passing didn't mean she lied. If SHE took one and lied that's different. You can say she lied all you want but you have no proof and if you've been acting like THIS in court it's no wonder you aren't getting what you want.

Also a lot of us on here are not attorneys.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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If the matter has been to court, with the court awarding support and denying any visitation, then the remedies are to (a) move for reconsideration, (b) appeal, or (c) later seek to modify the order based on factual developments since the last order. If you weren't working with a laywer during prior proceedings, it's long past time to retain a lawyer; if you were, you can discuss your options with your lawyer.

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It's not a matter of anybody "sticking together" -- it's simply a matter of fact. Complaining about the facts won't change them. Your options remain as described.

kc, I just read a quote that made me think of you:

When a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to control how others see you. The misinformation will feel unfair, but stay above it! Trust that other people will eventually see the truth, just as you did.

The underlined is your job now. When she goes low, you go high. The truth will out. Might not be until she's out on her own, but.....

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Quoting kcstone

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She lied; I know it, she knows it and God knows it! It was a very calculated and deliberate plan by her and her attorney to poison the court against me and make her out to be a victim. You attorneys sure stick together!

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Sir, are you familiar with "Occam's Razor"?

The mother and family of one of my oldest friends turned her against her dad when she was a teenager. When she got older she talked to people that knew both of her parents well. She found out, her dad was not the main problem. Like her mother and her mothers family told her. When she started looking at things her mother said and did regarding her father, she saw things from a different perspective. She realized her mother and her mothers family has not been honest with her.

Your daughter will be grown soon. She will be able to think for herself. If nothing happened on your or your families end for her to feel the way she does. She will realize what her mother did.