Careless Driving Charge in Ontario

Hello. I'd appreciate any help someone could give on this matter.

I was driving one night from my home to a restaurant at about 6 in the morning, I hadn't slept yet because I had an exam that day I was studying for and I was hungry. I felt fine leaving the house (not tired), and after about ten minutes of driving I fell asleep (and luckily) rolled into a lamp post. I'm not sure how it happened, I had just stopped at a light and I nodded off just after clearing the intersection. I told this much to the police. The lamp post needed to be replaced (had a dent) and my car was damaged. The police came to the scene and took my information. About two months after a police officer came to my house and charged me with careless driving and it will be three months following the incident that I have to be in court to give me plea. I was also invoiced for the pole itself ($3000). Should I plead guilty or not guilty to the charge (I obviously have no choice but to pay for the pole)?

Thank you very much.

It may also be helpful to know that the police officer when he gave me the charges told me he really didn't want to pursue the charges but the traffic sergeant told him he had to. He said he felt that it wasn't negligent of me to go out driving when I felt fine and that what had happened was a very temporary.. something.. that couldn't be construed as driving unsafely because it was such a temporal thing. I took what he was saying with a grain of salt, but it may help in understanding the issue a little more.

I would personally plead not guilty, then try to cut a deal when I got to court.

I'm not sure what I'd be asking it to be reduced to or what basis I'd use to support my not guilty plea. The only thing that comes to mind is that my state of mind when making the decision was impaired from lack of sleep so I couldn't be held entirely responsible for my actions for that reason. But, once again, I know absolutely nothing about these things..

If a prosecutor is present to negotiate deals, see what the prosecutor offers. Beyond that, think "throwing yourself on the mercy of the court".

Quote:

---

...I had just stopped at a light and I nodded off just after clearing the intersection. I told this much to the police.

---

Conrad:

You admitted to the officer that you fell asleep, which amounts to careless driving. That is what your collision statement will say. I don't think you will have too much of an argument to that. I'm not sure why the officer took the position he did on the scene. If it was me, what you told me would have resulted in a PON for careless driving being issued right there and then. You will not be able to plea this one down by yourself. You may want to find a reputable traffic ticket specialist in your local phone book and let them hear your story and seek disclosure of the accident report and collision statement. He/she may have an idea for you, but it's not likely. Good luck.

All the best!

Jay

Since you state that you HAVE to attend court, then it appears the officer has filed by way of a Part III summons, which is much more serious than a typical Part I summons (ie. ticket on the side of the road). The officer would have had a maximum of 30 days to serve you under Part I and since that time limit lapsed, this is probably why the Part III. Be advised that the maximum fine of $500 under a Part I is waived, and the Crown COULD argue for a fine as high as $5,000 under Part III.

It's worth your while to read the linked article. You definitely don't want that Careless charge. I would talk to the Crown first (just call the courthouse and ask when you can stop by), and if you don't feel he's willing to work with you, just say thanks but you'd like to get advice from your lawyer.

Plea Bargain Article:
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/cars/tickets/

P.S. The Provincial Offences Act allows for a charge to be amended to anything, as long as both parties (you and the Crown) agree. It doesn't have to be related to the actual circumstanses of the "true" offence

Quote:

---

Quoting conrad_b

---

[M]y state of mind when making the decision was impaired from lack of sleep so I couldn't be held entirely responsible for my actions for that reason.

---

What? Using that logic, if you got drunk and ran over someone, you shouldn't be held responsible, since you were "impaired" due to too much alcohol? Wow! I never thought of that argument.

Yes, the charge is Part III and I just hired a paralegal to look at the case.. $550. I'm didn't sign a formal statement after the event, which is the only thing that may help me in this instance. The paralegal said the charge almost definitely won't disappear but that there is a good chance that I could get a lesser charge ~3 points off as opposed to the 6/suspended license. He also said that the biggest mistake I made was telling the officer I dozed off because that instantly meant careless driving.

And Blewis, I think you discredit quite a number of things by comparing these two things. While there are parallels there is a serious difference between drinking then getting behind a wheel and studying all night then going out and driving, wouldn't you say?

Thanks for all your help all ie. Bookm jturner901 and rest, I appreciate it.

The two are treated differently in terms of culpability - you're charged with careless driving, not drunk driving. But when you're exhausted to the point of falling asleep at the wheel, you're about as dangerous to other drivers as if you were drunk.

Quote:

---

Quoting FAQs: Drowsy Driving

---

On the national level, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) conservatively estimates that 100,000 police-reported crashes are the direct result of driver fatigue each year, resulting in an estimated 1,500 deaths, 71,000 injuries, and $12.5 billion in monetary losses. However, it is very difficult to determine when fatigue causes or contributes to a traffic crash, and many experts believe these statistics understate the magnitude of the problem.

On the individual level, driving while tired is very dangerous, because a driver who falls asleep may crash head-on into another vehicle, a tree, or a wall, at full driving speed, without making any attempt to avoid the crash by steering or braking.

The inability of a sleeping driver to try to avoid crashing makes this type of crash especially severe. Some studies have found people's cognitive-psychomotor abilities to be as impaired after 24 hours without sleep as with a BAC of 0.10%, which is higher than the legal limit for DWI conviction in all US states.

* * *

In fact, drowsy drivers sometimes drive so poorly that they might appear to be drunk. In a survey of police officers conducted by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, nearly 90 percent of responding officers had at least once pulled over a driver who they expected to find intoxicated, but turned out to be sleepy (and not intoxicated).

---

Many years ago, a friend of mine fell asleep at the wheel on the highway. I grabbed the wheel and put us back on the asphalt just as we approached the stone foundation of a railway overpass. To this day (26 years later) I can NOT sleep in a car that someone else is driving. I'm just too scared they'll fall asleep too. If you downplay this incident as "trivial" (before the judge) I suspect he will not go easy on you. You will get a speech like, "that light pole could have just as easily been a child".

You say you didn't feel at all tired. So if you have a problem with "instant sleep syndrome" (not a real term), you might lose your lisence for medical reasons. I'd accept Aarons' and Blewis' comments as very educational. The minor criticisms you face here will be nothing compared to those likely to come from the court ;)

Hopefully you'll eventually come to accept the fact that you could have very easily killed some one, and learn from this experience. I live in Ontario and I don't want ya' runnin' me over.

Good Luck
Book

Quote:

---

I live in Ontario and I don't want ya' runnin' me over.

---

Me neither and I'm out there at 4:00 in the morning.

All the best!

Jay