Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
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ignoramus23
Not gonna accept that. There is nothing nosy about intervening in or calling authorities to break up domestic violence. It is the community's responsibility to quash out the scourge that is intimate partner violence, because often times the victims won't report it themselves for a million reasons. Trust me, I've done my research on domestic violence, and the best thing that can be done is to bring it to the attention of authorities, which I did. Thanks for your opinions there, though. Next time, he knows I'm gonna be listening for DV and he knows I'm gonna call the police if I hear it, because none of the people in my community are going to tolerate it. We are also going to look for signs of abuse in the girl.... and perhaps even the guy if you are all so intent that he could have been the one getting abused (lol guy is twice her size). The law has a really effective way of dealing with domestic abusers in a way that will burn them so bad that they'll think twice about ever doing it again.
Also, there is an interesting YouTube video out there where they had couples stage DV in a public park to see what people's reactions would be. Quite a few men bystanders stepped in when they saw the man beating on the woman. I definitely feel like there is a social responsibility there, in addition to calling the police.
Sorry for coming off a bit emotional here with this, but I have a lifelong history with exposure to this kind of stuff... and it destroys lives if no one ever gets in the way to intervene.
My God. You are scoffing at the suggestion that the male could be the victim because he's twice her size? You are insinuating that we're somehow misguided for thinking it's a possibility? That entire mindset is dangerous, and it's part of the problem, not the answer.
You think that an abuser is going to deterred from hurting the victim because a nosy neighbor called the cops? No. The abuser will simply find other, more subtle ways of abusing the victim. You are going to "look for signs of abuse"? How, exactly, do you think you'll manage that? Are you going to demand to see bare arms so you may inspect them? Do you know how many victims will simply cower even further away, knowing that if their abuser catches wind that a neighbor is "checking up" on them they'll get even worse treatment?
Dude, I know you think you're trying to help but I'm completely floored by your responses and your mindset.
Don't be that guy. Please. Don't be that guy.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
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Dogmatique
My God. You are scoffing at the suggestion that the male could be the victim because he's twice her size? You are insinuating that we're somehow misguided for thinking it's a possibility? That entire mindset is dangerous, and it's part of the problem, not the answer.
You think that an abuser is going to deterred from hurting the victim because a nosy neighbor called the cops? No. The abuser will simply find other, more subtle ways of abusing the victim. You are going to "look for signs of abuse"? How, exactly, do you think you'll manage that? Are you going to demand to see bare arms so you may inspect them? Do you know how many victims will simply cower even further away, knowing that if their abuser catches wind that a neighbor is "checking up" on them they'll get even worse treatment?
Dude, I know you think you're trying to help but I'm completely floored by your responses and your mindset.
Don't be that guy. Please. Don't be that guy.
Alright, lets put my brazen ignorance regarding the correct way to approach DV aside, since its obviously an extremely complex issue that is beyond my range of competence, and accept I'm just trying to help out in a screwed up situation where someone is getting continually hurt (because I've heard similar arguments in the past). Since I don't want to be "that guy", do you have any more plausible/constructive approaches I might be able to take to get someone the help they need? I feel like putting at least some sort of effort in to try to help is my social responsibility. I'm not trying to play hero.
I feel like you won't have answer for that, because it seems all you like to do on Expert Law is criticize people and denigrate them for their ineptitude in the ways of the law. Maybe it provides you some sort of catharsis, I don't know... but I'm seeking help not shame.
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cdwjava
Calling the police and even attempting to intervene are admirable actions, and I do not have a problem with that. But, as has been well-stated here, the police cannot simply make an arrest because you called the police to report a POSSIBLE DV. As has been explained, they must have probable cause to believe that a crime occurred and that the person to be arrested committed the crime. You do not know what the police saw or heard when they were there. While it is possible that they were lazy sots, it is more likely that they were unable to overcome the legal barriers towards an arrest and, instead, were left with either a report of a verbal argument or a log entry (depending on the reporting requirements for such matters in OR).
Thank you, sir. You were actually the one I was hoping to get some advice from. I understand there are legal logistics that prevented an arrest, that has been well explained. And I know an arrest isn't always the end all answer to this kind of stuff... but is there anything that can be done? Can a local DV advocacy group reach out to either or partner and try to provide assistance, based on the police call/log alone? Do I just need to give this thing up and stop being so 'nosy', and let come what may, accepting they are two fully grown adults (barely). It would be truly sad to see a situation like this escalate into a preventable death or otherwise.... It almost happened a couple of times in my own life experiences.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
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ignoramus23
Thank you, sir. You were actually the one I was hoping to get some advice from. I understand there are legal logistics that prevented an arrest, that has been well explained. And I know an arrest isn't always the end all answer to this kind of stuff... but is there anything that can be done?
There is always something that can be done to help, but, what that might be depends on facts that none of us know, and, more than likely, you do not know, either.
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Can a local DV advocacy group reach out to either or partner and try to provide assistance, based on the police call/log alone?
If the policy or practice of the local agency includes a referral to such services, sure. If there is a crime or incident report generated for the call and contact, then it may well find its way to some service organization or agency that might be able to assist. It's exceedingly unlikely that any organization will be trolling police logs to try and find clients to offer their services to.
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Do I just need to give this thing up and stop being so 'nosy', and let come what may, accepting they are two fully grown adults (barely). It would be truly sad to see a situation like this escalate into a preventable death or otherwise.... It almost happened a couple of times in my own life experiences.
Personally, if I heard them arguing again, I'd call the police. Stay on the line with the dispatcher and relate what you hear until the police get there. Next time, do not leave when the cops arrive but remain on hand and available for them to contact to obtain more detailed information. The officers will get only a very brief (perhaps even inaccurate) synopsis of what you provided to the dispatchers and this is not always sufficient to justify a forced entry or a detention. Your being available for further details can be vital.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
When law enforcement thinks someone needs to go to a DV Shelter or they may need counseling of other DV help, the can give the victim the contact info for the DV center. But, it is up to the victim to contact the DV center and follow through. Based on what you said, I don't think the police gave any contact info to anyone because they saw no reasons to.
Unless you have been educated and trained in Domestic Violence and the legal requirements in your area, you have no way of knowing what is against the laws in your area and what is not. Being a victim of domestic violence does not mean you are trained and know how to help other victims.
The next time you hear your neighbors fighting, you need to call the police and Stay Away From Your Neighbors. Domestic calls are one of the most dangerous calls law enforcement offiicers make. Please don't add to their danger.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
Alright, thanks yet again, for setting me straight. Looks like I know what I need to do if it happens again, and also shouldn't be so presumptuous based on limited observations.
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Mercy&Grace
Unless you have been educated and trained in Domestic Violence and the legal requirements in your area, you have no way of knowing what is against the laws in your area and what is not. Being a victim of domestic violence does not mean you are trained and know how to help other victims.
The next time you hear your neighbors fighting, you need to call the police and Stay Away From Your Neighbors. Domestic calls are one of the most dangerous calls law enforcement offiicers make. Please don't add to their danger.
Okay, thank you. Explains why they sent 6 officers to the residence. You're right, I have no education or training in DV to understand the intricacies of the law surrounding this apparently extremely complex issue. I saw deep scratches to the arm and assumed assault. He stated he was restraining her, and I assumed unlawful restraint. I wasn't trying to play street lawyer, rather convey what I thought was relevant information of crime to dispatchers and police. Next time I'll keep my head low and just call police to handle it the way they do.
Also, I didn't just ditch when police arrived. I stuck around long enough to answer their initial questions. They seemed pretty short with me though, seemed pretty skeptical of what I was telling them for one reason or another. Maybe next time just better to let them duke it out on their own, because I really do not like interacting with police on any level.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
Independent of all other responses, I want to say this:
You did what you thought was right, OP, and it probably was. Holding back and calling the police without interrupting what was going on could have led to...well, it's tough to even imagine it. Don't tear yourself down over what happened; instead, let the pain strengthen your resolve to see justice done.
In the future, I would recommend (and this is horrendous, but it's the best I've got) recording the audio you mentioned in your original post if it was loud enough to wake you. The recording should be enough to initiate some kind of action on the part of the police, unless they're horrendously inept.
https://www.brickunderground.com/liv...s_being_abused
Also, read this if you like. It's all so...delicate.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
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Quoting
7washington
Independent of all other responses, I want to say this:
You did what you thought was right, OP, and it probably was. Holding back and calling the police without interrupting what was going on could have led to...well, it's tough to even imagine it. Don't tear yourself down over what happened; instead, let the pain strengthen your resolve to see justice done.
In the future, I would recommend (and this is horrendous, but it's the best I've got) recording the audio you mentioned in your original post if it was loud enough to wake you. The recording should be enough to initiate some kind of action on the part of the police, unless they're horrendously inept.
https://www.brickunderground.com/liv...s_being_abused
Also, read this if you like. It's all so...delicate.
Oh good grief.
Re: Why Wouldn't the Police Make a Domestic Violence Arrest
I guess I take a different tack here. If I thought someone was being beaten, I would intervene. I couldn't look at myself if I later discovered that someone was injured and I did nothing to intervene. There are times when it is unwise, but who here can say that what the OP did was unwise given the circumstances as he knew them at the time? I wasn't there, none of the rest of us were there, only the OP was there and could assess the situation to the best of his ability.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. While my official recommendation is that one should call the police and be a good witness as there are too many variables that could place someone at risk, I am not going to criticize someone for acting to aid another.
I recall a parolee who took a chance at going back to prison when he observed the neighbor beating his pregnant wife. The parolee took a bat, challenged the abuser to pick on someone his own side, and the abuser decided to come after the parolee, and the abuser suffered a bat to the side of the head for it. The parolee went to jail with a parole hold and thought he'd go back to prison for doing what he did. Fortunately, the DA felt it was an act in defense of another and refused to prosecute the case (his first words at arraignment was, "Nice job with that bat!").