How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
My question involves criminal law for the state of: OR
This situation happened to a 'friend' of mine recently. He had a not-so-stable girlfriend with a history of self harm and mental illness, and wanted to break off the relationship so he told her he was leaving her. She proceeded to immediately grab a knife and slash her wrist, drawing significant blood, while exclaiming 'then i'll kill myself' (witnesses in nearby apartment heard this). Then she continued to make allegedly threatening gestures with the knife by holding the knife vertically in the air, and this apparently left my friend in fear for not only her safety, but his own (even though no explicit verbal threat was made against him). He's a pretty knowledgeable guy and he knew there are several laws protecting a person's personal bodily autonomy (i.e. simple assault/unlawful restraint), but he was also in fear that if he just sat there or left the unit altogether, and let her continue to harm herself, possibly even kill herself, that he could also be held morally and legally responsible (i.e. something along the lines of involuntary manslaughter).
The struggle happened so fast, and persisted without pause for so long that he did not have time to find his cell phone and call the police. He also feared that calling the police would only provoke her further, possibly jeopardizing either his or her safety further, and land himself with an arrest regardless. I won't go into detail about how the rest of situation went, but it didn't work out so good for my friend (he ultimately chose to disarm and restrain her) and now he's in serious legal trouble. She ended up in the psychiatric ER. But hey, both of them are still alive.
My question is, how could a person possibly handle this crisis situation in a legal and ethical way, while both respecting her right to bodily autonomy and his own right to personal safety? Does he truly just have to forget about her immediate welfare, call the police, and walk away? And why were police so quick to pin blame exclusively on him, isn't it a crime to wield a knife in a menacing and threatening way (i.e. assault with a deadly weapon). Based on the information I have provided, are there any legal defenses that could keep this guy out of prison and his future intact? Thank you.
Re: Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
You call 911. That's where you start. Without other relevant details I won't say anything else except that, without a threat against his person and he was pinned against the wall his only real option was to back off. Choosing to "disarm and restrain her" was probably a bad call. IT doesn't matter where she ended up as just being suicidal doesn't make someone incompetent all by itself.
Tell your friend to get an attorney. He'll need it.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
If you are dating somebody who is that unstable, after reflecting a bit on how you ended up on the relationship in the first place, you can have a support person present when you break up, you can keep better track of your phone, and you can call 911 if a problem arises.
We weren't there. If your friend was charged with a crime, and he doesn't understand why, he can discuss the facts of the case and the content of the police incident report with his lawyer. If he's not charged with a crime, it would seem that the police accepted his story.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
He was arrested and charged. This is a county that is known to be extremely aggressive with domestic violence cases. He didn't stand a chance in convincing police to believe his story, as they entered the apartment and encountered him restraining the girl by the wrists on a sofa, with a bloody knife he had just wrestled away from her stashed out of reach directly beneath her under the sofa.
I know this isn't a forum for legal or political opinions, and contemplative foresight would have been wise, but I think its absurd to pin blame on someone for not being able to predict the actions/responses of another person. It wasn't immediately apparent at the onset of the relationship that she was unstable, he wanted out of the abusive relationship, and he ultimately made the rational decision to end it and walk away.
These domestic violence laws are extremely important in protecting women. But they are also incredibly biased and myopic. Hopefully they can expand someday to focus on more than just female victims.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
If the police came into her apartment and found someone physically restraining her and a bloody knife what on earth do you think is going to happen? The police will collect the evidence and statements and turn them over to the DA. The DA will decide whether to proceed to trial and then a jury will decide, based on the evidence, whether to convict. In other words, it doesn't matter if the police believe him or not, he was going to jail and now he'll face a trial. I don't see anything biased or myopic here at all.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
There's an old saying that people never get too drunk or too crazy to understand "press charges." As soon as she picked up a knife and started sawing at her own wrists, he should've called the police. End of story. His whole justification of "I just was afraid that it would make her worse, blah blah blah has been done before, so if you were trying it out here, as perhaps someone was trying it on you, it sounds like self justifying garbage it is. Biased and myopic they may be, but after hearing dozens of these stories, you begin to think it's not so "absurd" to pin the blame on someone who reacted, at the very least, stupidly, and much more likely, aggressively when given what they think may have been an excuse. Lots and lots of guys think that a good story about how "she was going to harm herself" or "She was actually abusing and threatening me" will get them somewhere, but not especially. It's like they go with the more believable of the two parties.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
My, my, you and yours do live interesting lives, don't you?
Post hx, folks.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
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Quoting
comment/ator
There's an old saying that people never get too drunk or too crazy to understand "press charges." As soon as she picked up a knife and started sawing at her own wrists, he should've called the police. End of story. His whole justification of "I just was afraid that it would make her worse, blah blah blah has been done before, so if you were trying it out here, as perhaps someone was trying it on you, it sounds like self justifying garbage it is. Biased and myopic they may be, but after hearing dozens of these stories, you begin to think it's not so "absurd" to pin the blame on someone who reacted, at the very least, stupidly, and much more likely, aggressively when given what they think may have been an excuse. Lots and lots of guys think that a good story about how "she was going to harm herself" or "She was actually abusing and threatening me" will get them somewhere, but not especially. It's like they go with the more believable of the two parties.
So you are telling me that restraining and disarming an armed individual who is actively threatening your own life and their own with a deadly weapon, is stupid and aggressive. Better to just stand there and wait and see what happens. Just take a timeout to go find your phone, hope she doesn't come chasing after you with the knife (happened before), call the police, and wait around 20 minutes for them to show up, and hope neither you or her die in the meantime. Using force to eliminate the threat, again unstable woman wielding a deadly weapon, would just be a misogynistic expression of power and dominance over a woman. Doesn't make any sense man. She was in active commission of a serious felony offense by wielding a knife, its a 10 year felony - assault with intent to maim. He had every right to stop her, if anything in self-defense for his own life.
"It's like they go with the more believable of the two parties." It's likely they go with the more 'favorable' of the two parties, especially in a misandrist DV criminal justice system. The evidence was there, witness testimony, bloody knives, slashed wrists. What more do you need to believe the story? Chances are you just don't want to believe that the girl could have possibly posed a threat, despite wielding a weapon and being clearly out of her mind. Society doesn't want to believe that, because it doesn't fall into the male-aggressor/female-victim narrative. That's the self-justifying garbage. Oh well, such is life.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
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ignoramus23
So you are telling me that restraining and disarming an armed individual who is actively threatening your own life and their own with a deadly weapon, is stupid and aggressive. Better to just stand there and wait and see what happens. Just call the police, and wait around 20 minutes for them to show up, and hope neither you or her die in the meantime. How dare to use force to eliminate the threat, because that would just be a misogynistic expression of power and dominance over a woman. Doesn't make any sense man. She was in active commission of a serious felony offense by wielding a knife, its a 10 year felony - assault with intent to maim. He had every right to stop her.
Chances are you just don't want to believe that the girl could have possibly posed a threat to the guy, despite wielding a weapon and being clearly out of her mind. Society doesn't want to believe that, because into doesn't fall into the male-aggressor/female-victim narrative. Oh well, such is life.
Were you present?
No?
Dismissed. You can go now.
Re: How to Avoid Domestic Violence Charges from a Struggle During a Suicide Attempt
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Quoting
Dogmatique
Were you present?
No?
Dismissed. You can go now.
I said 'friend'. I was trying to imply something.
I think you know that too ; )