Can a Stepparent Refuse to Allow a Stepchild to Live in Her Home

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: California.

Background:
My husband took in his daughter just over a year and a half ago a month before she turned 15. She is now 16 1/2 years old. She caused her mother many problems with lying and stealing and finally getting kicked out of the 9th grade. In an argument with her mother who took her cell phone away, she took an excessive amount of Ibuprofen's and ended up in a 72 hour hold and the doctor strongly recommended the teenager come live with us. We accepted the challenge and it has been 10 times worse since she has been with us. From stealing my old cell phone and creating hundreds (over 700 to be exact) of inappropriate photos, videos from her practicing to dance like a stripper to mixing alcohol with candy and finally sneaking her unknown boyfriend into our home while we are at work to have sex among the fact that she can't keep any friends and is always getting into fights at school. Her behavior on social media is completely unacceptable. We have taken her cell phone away but she is becoming more resentful.

Problem:
Social services has now been called three times as she keeps saying that we are neglecting her and physically abusing her. The police have also come and investigated the case and after finding out her entire history have closed the case. The problem is this. I don't want her living in our home anymore. I am a legal secretary and Notary Public and must maintain a crystal clean record. My entire family is afraid she will hurt herself and say I did it. We are oil and water and simply do not get along.

We have begged and I mean begged her mother to take her back but she refuses citing the fact that she has two younger kids from her ex-husband and does not want her to be an influence on them plus she is going through a divorce and fighting custody and believes she will hurt her case.

I feel trapped and a prisoner in my own home. I am to the point where I might just leave. I cannot wait until the day she turns 18. For the record, I did not always feel this way about her. I actually had a decent relationship with her and took her out to many places. It wasn't until after I found out she was stealing my money from my purse, stealing my cell phones, watches, expensive make-up and sneaking boys into our home and the last straw telling social services that I abuse her to "Deflect" what a trouble maker she is.

She has gotten kicked out of school again and we are now forced to register her in a 4th school.
My husband doesn't want her in our home either but we both feel trapped.

QUESTION:
What rights do step-parents have? Can I refuse her to live in our home without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state? What options do we have as no one in her family wants to take her in? We said her grandmother on her dad's side would take her in but social services said no because she lives out of state. Any guidance or if I have any rights, please let me know. I am now desperate.

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Quoting StepParent007

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QUESTION:
What rights do step-parents have? Can I refuse her to live in our home without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state? What options do we have as no one in her family wants to take her in? We said her grandmother on her dad's side would take her in but social services said no because she lives out of state. Any guidance or if I have any rights, please let me know. I am now desperate.

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You have absolutely no rights - at all. You could tell your husband to choose, but it seems like he's already done that anyway. YES, he will be paying child support - why shouldn't he support his child?

Frankly, your husband needs to grow a pair and help his daughter. If HE truly thinks the situation is intolerable, he needs to contact social services and tell them HE doesn't want her either.

This poor child. Shame on the adults in her family. ALL of you.

The child needed help when she first starting acting out. It is easy to say things when you are not the one being used and abused by the child. Everyone thinks they can manage the child, until the child lives with them and does the same things to them they did to you and other family members.

I agree with Dogmatique , it is time for dad to call social services and tell them the child is unmanageable and he needs to put her in foster care or a facility. It will be cheaper for dad to pay the child support money than for you to lose your job or for ya'll to be sued if/when something happens ya'll are responsible for. You need to do this Now before she gets pregnant, if she isn't already.

Do you and her dad have children of your own ? How long have yo and her dad been married ? Has she been in regular counseling and you and your husband in family counseling ? I'm just curious.

Unless dad was completely out of the picture until the daughter moved in, he had a responsibility to get her help before he did. I can tell you that if my child lived with her dad primarily and started stealing at the age of 7, I would be doing everything i possibly could, including taking her to therapy on my time. He had a responsibilty to her this whole time, not just when she moved in.

I also think its crap that because both of her parents failed to get her help when the issues began, that everyone is ready to wash their hands of her. These issues started at 7! Who would you blame when the child is that age? Certainly not the child. And if she has only recently in the last few years started being forced to get help, who else would be to blame for that? I am not saying she shouldnt be trying to help herself, but Mom AND Dad, failed this girl.

Since I can't close out the thread, I will respond.
Telling someone they should not steal after they have been caught and now seeking legal advice and/or seeking what options are available to them is a little late. Clearly, the person knows this. My step-daughter already knows she should not steal so what good would it be telling her that? Making this statement really serves no purpose. A more productive statement would be, there are programs or counseling available for people who like to steal, would you be open to this or something like that. The person wants to know what options are available. If indeed it was a first offense, can they do community service, what is the minimum amount of time they have to serve, things like that. I thought this forum was for advice, not judgments. My point is I did not come on here to be judged or chastised. I simply came on to ask for advice or if I had any rights as a step-parent. A simple you have no rights unfortunately would have sufficed regardless of my child support remark. I never said that he didn't want to pay it but he has never been in the system and had a verbal with the mom all these years. It was social services that strongly recommended that we don't get in the system as it would be a very different situation. Social services told us if they put her in foster care, he would get put in the system and pay the maximum and that would not be good for my husband. We were simply looking for other options besides turning her over to the state and getting entered into the system. If you don't relate to my situation or disagree with any of my statements, that is perfectly fine but to judge me defeats the whole purpose. I am being abused by a step-child who wants to call social services if you take her phone away or tell her she can't go anywhere. It is very stressful. For the record, I do not do any of the discipline. That is between her dad and her mom. I stay out of it.

As for getting into the game late, I meant as far as us raising her in our home. The dad has had a relationship with the child her entire life and has been very active. But the child never lived with us until she was 15 years old and it is a very different scenario when a child comes to spend every weekend, and you go to the movies and have fun to when a child comes to live with you under your roof and go to school and provide all their needs. I can't say for sure when the issue started but my guess is around 6 years old. She always had a penchant for stealing small things and although both parents were very aware, the mom insisted it was a phase and she would grow out of it as she got older. Instead, it got worse and as a step-parent with no rights as you clearly indicated I have none, there was nothing I could do. Her stealing progressively became worse as she got older, the lying, then the social media inappropriate behavior, fighting and so forth. There was no specific traumatic event in her life that we know of and we all don't think one happened. She is very vocal and would be quick to say if something did. Her only complaint that she has ever been vocal about was why did her mom and dad split up and always believes that I broke them up which I had nothing to do with. Her mom has confirmed I had nothing to do with it. Her dad has told her that but it appears she never got over that. She continually tries to start trouble between me and her dad and all her attempts keep failing but doesn't stop her from trying whenever she can.
In fact, social services is really going out of their way to help because the mother and the father and myself are all on the same page. They told us they rarely ever see when the mother and father are not together that they agree on everything when it comes to the child. That usually one parent says the other is not doing a good job and so forth. In this case, I can honestly say that they have both been actively involved in her life more so than I normally see and co-parent very well together. I do believe she needs some serious counseling but her counseling needs to be in a live-in counseling home. Living in our home or her mom's home will not improve her behavior. Something drastic has to happen for her to finally see the light and change.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation with your kids especially since terrible events happened that led to her issues. In my particular case, there was no external event that happened. She has been the way she has since she was very little but everyone thought she would grow out of it. Being a step parent with no rights is extremely difficult when dealing with a troubled child. I don't even want to go home until the dad gets home. I don't want to be alone in my own home with her. My parents are afraid that she will do something to hurt herself and say I did it. They are petrified of her. They have witnessed her behavior since she was little as well and believe she is capable of anything.
I will just continue to pray.
Thank you.

ReadytoLeave.
I strongly disagree with your comments as it is easier to judge from the outside looking in when you still do not know all the details.
As a Senior Member, it is appalling that members on this forum continually want to judge and point fingers at everyone, the parents and so forth.
Several different departments of social services, school counselors, police officers have all been involved and not one of them have pointed the fingers at the parents.
This is getting ridiculous. I can tell you for a fact that both parents have been heavily involved and have shown this child so much attention and love but it was just never enough.
This child knows better. She knows right from wrong. She has told us that if we don't give her a phone she will steal it period.
She is a bully and bullies other kids at school and fights them.
She makes threats to other kids on a regular basis.
She tries to bully us.
This kind of judgment is mind boggling to me.
For the record, the dad was in the picture the entire time. Because her behavioral problems was on a small level in her younger years and the mom believed she would grow out of it and plenty was done. She was constantly being talked to and receiving consequences as what any normal parent would do.
Mom and dad did NOT fail this girl but if it makes you feel better to make that statement and point the finger, have a field day with it.

I have learned a great lesson here today and I must thank you for the great lesson I have learned here today.
Other people who don't know you behind a computer in this social media age will always think they can judge and if they were in the same situation could do better.
I guarantee you that if you raised this girl instead, the same problem would have happened.
For the record, no one blamed her when she was 7. The parents were teaching her right from wrong. She is 16 years old and clearly knows right from wrong. When the stealing graduated and the behavior graduated is when they started to get counseling but ReadyToLeave Senior Member, thanks for all your comments and I thought Facebook was bad.
Everyone has been heavily involved in her life, her aunts, her grandmother, her mom, her other step-dad........everyone..........has been overly involved more than I have ever seen and for you to say mom and dad failed her even though I am not her biological mom is offensive to me. I have never seen a mom and dad come together and co-parent in harmony like these parents have.
There is no possible way I can summarize and provide all the details in this child's life so you get a full picture but it appears the more information I provide, the more judgmental everyone becomes without providing some guidance or solution, just a finger to point.
God bless you all.

I actually feel very sorry for all of you. I feel sorry for the child because there is a chance that she did not get the help/discipline/structure she needed growing up. I feel sorry for the OP because she obviously does not feel safe in her own home and that is no way to live and she is not a parent of this child. I also feel sorry for the parents because I doubt that they deliberately did their child wrong, and perhaps are dealing with a child that might have been bad no matter what they did.

None of us have the right to judge because none of us have walked in any of their shoes. Not the OP's, not the parent's, not the child's. Perhaps the best thing to do at this point is to get everyone into counseling and to see if some sort of inpatient treatment for the child is a viable solution.

Yes, it sounds like counseling for the whole family is in order here. Not so much to change the child, but how the family deals with her. These things don't happen in a vacuum. The whole family dynamic needs to be looked at and worked on (much like with families of alcoholics etc). This is not meant to knock what the OP and her husband has done thus far- but to me it looks like the situation needs to be viewed with fresh eyes.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I feel trapped and a prisoner in my own home. I am to the point where I might just leave. I cannot wait until the day she turns 18.

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Fundamentally, you're at the mercy of your husband and his ex-. You have no ability to keep him from allowing his daughter to live in his home, and sometimes it is the case that a stepparent has to move out rather than deal with an untenable home environment. Your husband's ability to exclude his daughter from his home is hampered by his legal duty to support and care for his minor child.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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I agree with Dogmatique , it is time for dad to call social services and tell them the child is unmanageable and he needs to put her in foster care or a facility. It will be cheaper for dad to pay the child support money than for you to lose your job or for ya'll to be sued if/when something happens ya'll are responsible for.

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Except that's not really how it works -- you can't simply call the state, declare that you have a difficult child that you no longer want to care for, and have the state assume your parental duties.

Sometimes the answer (an$wer) is a private, residential school.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I guarantee you that if you raised this girl instead, the same problem would have happened.

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I guarantee you that every time I have heard somebody insist that a child's behavior problems arose in a vacuum, that nothing the parents did could have stopped the problems from developing or lessened their severity, it turns out that the parents contributed to the problem. Here, you're simultaneously stating that nothing could have changed the problems, and that the problems were worsened by the mother's belief that the child would grow out of early behavior problems. Do you see the contradiction?

When a child needs psychological or psychiatric care, the parents should help the child get that care.

Did dad believe the child would grow out of it at seven? What about nine? Ten?Because if he did then mom cannot be blamed by you without also blaming dad.. And if he didnt, then he failed her by not getting her help when he saw it wasnt getting fixed the other way. See what I am saying? So which is it? Did dad agree with mom. Or did he disagree and do nothing?

Also, the judgement is based on the facts you have presented. If you want judgement on the whole story you must give the whole story. Since the whole story cant really be presented, we go by what you have determined to be the most important and relavent information. What you had written, in a nutshell, was that mom was to blame because you guys didnt get her until it was too late, and now its too much for you so she has got to go, but you want her to go in a way that youu husband doesnt have to pay money to the state.

I actually feel sorry for you too in addition to the child. Being a prisoner in your home is an awful way to live, and you have been told your choices, and honestly, neither of them are good.. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. But the parents are to blame, if not entirely, then certainly partially, even if you dont want to see it.

From your first post:

“QUESTION:
What rights do step-parents have? Can I refuse her to live in our home without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state? What options do we have as no one in her family wants to take her in? We said her grandmother on her dad's side would take her in but social services said no because she lives out of state. Any guidance or if I have any rights, please let me know. I am now desperate.”

Stepparents have NO legal rights to stepchildren. You chose to take on that responsibility when you married her father. If she has had trouble THIS LONG why didn’t anyone step in? Why didn’t your husband – her father – step in and try to help? I bet it was a lot easier to judge her mother than for either of you to do something. Your husband’s options are to call social services and put her in foster care or a facility.

From your second post – this forum does not and cannot provide LEGAL advice. Perhaps the father should have gone to court for visitation and child support if they weren’t ever married. Verbal with mom doesn’t really mean anything. “Social services told us if they put her in foster care, he would get put in the system and pay the maximum and that would not be good for my husband.” Ahh I see it’s all about what’s best for your husband not his daughter. That makes more sense now. He doesn’t want to have to do anything to care for his daughter through the state. Got it. Maybe someone should have instilled some discipline in her years ago and you could still do it now. But if you and her mom and dad are just going to let her run things that’s the problem.

Obviously her dad wasn’t very active if she has had discipline problems her entire life. Did the mom tell him that she was misbehaving? So she’s been like this since 6 and your husband had NO idea? Then either the mom was hiding it OR she told him and he just ignored her because he didn’t “see” the problem. No there are things you could do when she got to your house. Or you could have talked to your husband about it. But apparently no one in this child’s life gives a crap about her and are all worried about how THEY look to the state. Nothing traumatic happened in her life? Her parents separating is obviously traumatic for her and is for most kids.

I had stepkids at one point. The youngest who is now 8 has severe anger issues. When he was at my house, you better believe if he acted out I would discipline him by taking away the PS3 (which was mine) and taking away TV privileges. He would tell his dad if he wasn’t there and his dad would agree with me (my ex husband). They also have a stepfather and he disciplines them while they are at home. In the home yes you can discipline if it’s something that needs addressed. Such as my former stepson would throw the controller to the game or hit his other sister (not our daughter his older sister) and if he did those things acting out violently yeah I put him in place whether his dad was there or not. I’m not going to let a kid act that way. Being a stepparent has gray areas yes – but you can discipline when they are in your home.

You better read some other threads if you think you have been “judged.” If you can’t handle the answers you get and not the responses you want public forums aren’t your place. People need to read the disclaimer a bit more.

You say she’s a bully – why? Bullies are usually being bullied by someone else. Has anyone talked to her teachers? Has anyone sent her to counseling? Has anyone sat her down and just talked to her? Kids don’t just usually wake up one day and say “I’m going to be a little asshole for the rest of my life.” SOMETHING triggers it. So yeah you deserve the judgement you get because IMO you have all failed this child in some way. This could have been STOPPED at six years old.

If I was in your situation I would do better. I did do better. If I were to marry someone else and they had a small child with behavioral problems I would find out why. I would talk to my husband and ask him what have they done and point them in the right direction to get help. If he was resistant to my suggestions I don’t think we would have been married then.

I guarantee if I raised that girl instead I would have squashed that shit at six years old. You say everyone has been “heavily involved” but obviously they haven’t and they’ve missed quite a bit. You, your husband and the entire family need some counseling along with her. I feel sorry for the kids in that family. You can hate my comments and call me judgmental all you want. I don’t care what you think.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I feel trapped and a prisoner in my own home.

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Who owns the home?

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Quoting StepParent007

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without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state?.

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If she goes into foster or other state supported care, your husband will have to pay the state whatever the laws of your state say he has to pay. As will her mother. However, your husband can't just put her out on the street. The state would have to agree to take her, which from the facts you presented is not likely.

Boarding school is an option if you can find a school that will take her.

Who owns your home?

Has the child ever been reported to the police for her crimes?
Has the child ever had a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she has a mental health issue?

As for calling the state, that is possible. I have a few clients that have done that when they have exhausted every other option.

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Quoting Danasis

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If she goes into foster or other state supported care, your husband will have to pay the state whatever the laws of your state say he has to pay. As will her mother. However, your husband can't just put her out on the street. The state would have to agree to take her, which from the facts you presented is not likely.

Boarding school is an option if you can find a school that will take her.

Who owns your home?

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It is the MARITAL residence. Therefore it doesn't matter who own the home. It would take a court order to remove one of the married couple and until then, either party can allow someone of their choosing to live there.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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Has the child ever been reported to the police for her crimes?
Has the child ever had a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she has a mental health issue?

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Good questions.

The dad never had any custodial rights and the mother never allowed the dad to make any major decisions, counseling, doctors, school, etc. The mother did go to counseling with the child from the school and I don't know what happened in those sessions but her behavior never changed. This went on for around 4 or 5 months that I know of. The dad always paid his child support and paid for her medical insurance and dental her entire life but he never had any rights. She did listen to him and heard his suggestions but she said the final decision was hers. It wasn't until the past year and a half that we started seeing eye to eye, not that they didn't get along because they did co-parent but the mom limited the dad's participation. We never thought the mom was doing anything wrong as we know how much she loves and cares for the child but in reality I am just an outsider looking in. I have absolutely no say so. I actually believe very strongly and I could be wrong that she needs psychological or psychiatric care. My guess and its only a guess is that she is bipolar but I think they are afraid to explore this option. I have also stated this to social services as well. They will send someone to our home once a week to evaluate the situation. Without a live-in caretaker in our home, I feel the situation will get worse so we are exploring the option of the dad's mother staying with us through the summer as she lives out of state. Maybe the mom and dad could have done more. What...I don't know. The dad felt very limited and the mom pretty much wanted to control the situation so dad didn't want to rock the boat so he could continue seeing his child. And although the mom and/or dad could have done more, when you live in a low income area where there is heavy force of gangs and wild kids that like to fight all the time, it makes it that much harder. The mom lives in a low income area, about an hour away from our home which is an average middle class area. I did think that her living in our neighborhood would make a difference but I will never really know. I am not trying to pass judgment because I know how hard it was for the mother. I have more sympathy for the mother now as we have first hand experience. But I really think she had problems from when she was very young so whether she lived with us or her mom, the problems would have still been the same. We also have explored independent counseling through my husband's insurance and not one psychologist would take on another client. My husband has a PPO and not one psychologist on the list would it. It was actually a miracle we found a facility to take her for 30 days when she went......that my husband's insurance would pay plus our co-pay. It appears that unless you have around $30,000 or more to put down, these facilities do not want to take you in. They are not satisfied with a co-pay and payment from insurance. That is whole other issue. Sorry for digressing.

And to quickly answer some of the other questions:

Has the child ever been reported to the police for her crimes? No, she keeps getting a pass but everyone is in agreement that whatever trouble she gets into next, it will be reported to the police.

Has the child ever had a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she has a mental health issue? No, I have been pleading for this but so far it has not happened. Remember, I am only the step-parent and have no rights or say so about what happens to this child, going to the doctor, etc.

As for calling the state, that is possible. I have a few clients that have done that when they have exhausted every other option. Social services is already involved and they are doing their best to help. They have spoken with her privately on several occasions and have determined that she simply does not want to follow rules and feels entitled especially to owning a cell phone where she runs rampid on social medial. A side thought from me is that Social Media is the root of all these problems. All her friends are on social media. She has no real friends that come over and hang out with. We have done everything to encourage and motivate her to join a sports team, cheer, dance, track, any school activity but she says she doesn't like have any friends because she doesn't trust anyone. And when her phone is taken away from unacceptable behavior on social media like terrorist threats for starters, she becomes hysterical and makes all kinds of threats. The phone remains locked away.

Who owns your home? My husband and I both own the home together.

Thank you for your time and your response.

You have no custodial rights but you could have reported any crimes against you. That would have put her in the juvenile court system. Your husband has also been negligent in not getting her a psychiatric evaluation. Hence, you have some blame here as does your husband.

Why does she even have a cell phone? She shouldn't. Nor should she have computer access but for schoolwork which is monitored. Those are on your husband at this point.

No advice here other than seeking therapy while you develop a plan. She is a child after all and she deserves any help she can get. These behaviors stem from something.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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It is the MARITAL residence. Therefore it doesn't matter who own the home. It would take a court order to remove one of the married couple and until then, either party can allow someone of their choosing to live there.

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You don't understand the point of my question. It does matter for OP's strategy for what she wants to do. You are bringing court orders into the discussion when that isn't relevant at all to why I was asking.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I feel trapped and a prisoner in my own home. I am to the point where I might just leave.

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Quoting StepParent007

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Who owns your home? My husband and I both own the home together.

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Since California is a community property state, I need a few more details. Did you buy the home together as a married couple or did one of you own it prior to getting married and you transmuted it by adding the other's name to the deed?

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Quoting StepParent007

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The dad never had any custodial rights and the mother never allowed the dad to make any major decisions, counseling, doctors, school, etc. . . . but he never had any rights.

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That would be an EXTREMELY unusual situation in California. It is rare that a court would strip a father of joint legal custody and unless there were some physical abuse or neglect or the dad was totally absent from the child's life it doesn't happen. Physical custody does not determine legal custody. The default is joint legal custody. Dad has to be a pretty bad actor to get his legal custody rights stripped.

What exactly does the custody order say? Have you even read it or are you just going by what your husband says the order says? If you have in fact read it, what does it say exactly?

I am not understanding this line of questioning. I never mentioned anything about a "Court" physical order. The mom and dad were never married. When he left the mom, they immediately had a verbal arrangement for visitation and child support which he kept all these years. You are telling me that by default it is joint legal custody in California? I know I did not know that and I know for sure my husband did not know that either. We both always assumed that if the mom had full time physical custody, that was it. The school even told us that since the child was living with the mother full time that the mother had full physical custody and we never questioned it. There was no reason to apply for legal custody from the mother. Since the mom never gave him any problems anytime he wanted the child over, they never went to court. She was always pretty good about him spending time with the child. But when it came to school issues and doctors and things, he certainly was able to voice his opinion but the final decision was always hers. For the most part, there was nothing to fight with her about. We knew she had some issues but the mom always said she had it under control. In any event, I am a little confused. What difference does all this make now? It is water under the bridge. If my husband was wrong for not pursuing it further, then so be it. If the mom was wrong for not getting her to a psychologist sooner, then so be it. If I was wrong for not calling the police after she stole my phone, then so be it. What's done is done. We are trying to move forward. As for the property question, we bought the home together at the same time about a year ago. We did not buy it as married couple. We bought it as individuals because our lender recommended it because of our individual credit profiles.

As for the cell phone, you are preaching to the choir on this issue. I fought the idea to both the mom and dad directly about her having a cell phone in her possession but the grandmother (the mom's mom) snuck her a phone and is paying for it. I said to give the phone back to the grandmother because the phone has been the root of all her problems stemming from ridiculous fights with girls on social media. The child would become hysterical and would tell us that having a phone is vital for communications and that we are mean horrible people if we don't let her keep it and so on. I for one, did not bite but the mom strongly felt if she was going to dig herself a deeper hole with the cell phone to allow her to have it and if something bad resulted from her cell phone use, she would have to endure all the consequences and no one would save her. I completed disagreed with this method but as the step-mom I had no say as usual.
As for the dad, he did not want to argue with the mom and wanted to try her method to see what would happen so I had to be quiet and go along.
When you are a step-parent you are pretty much the bottom person on the totem pole when it comes to any decision making.

I want to thank everyone for all their responses but I will just work with social services on moving forward since I have no rights in my home, I will just have to continue to keep everything locked up and live like a prisoner. Giving me advice on continued counseling and so forth is really singing to the choir but I can't make this happen unless both parents are in agreement.
The last counseling attempt went south when she conned her way out of the facility by claiming a level 5 pain every day. You have to put all your energy, your heart and soul to get anything done and I know she is a child who needs help but I am done. She has burned me for the 101th time. I feel like a woman being tormented and abused by a bad husband and have nowhere to go. I have always felt when parents are split that the daughter is better with the mom and the son is better with the father and I know there are exceptions to this but in this case, I especially feel that way. Mostly, because when the mom talks, she does listen and appears to absorb what her mom is saying. Her mom is the only person she will be quiet and listen to.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I am not understanding this line of questioning. I never mentioned anything about a "Court" physical order. The mom and dad were never married. When he left the mom, they immediately had a verbal arrangement for visitation and child support which he kept all these years.

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Don't write books, I am not going to read them.

So has paternity ever been established or not? They weren't married, did he sign a declaration of paternity?

I recognize that you'll flag this comment for deletion (there are so many comments missing here that I read earlier) but all I can say is that, lady, you are one dense piece of work.

No, but they were together when she gave birth so he was listed on the birth certificate. We never felt the need to establish paternity. We all know the kid is his. No one is trying to dispute that.

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Quoting Danasis

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You don't understand the point of my question. It does matter for OP's strategy for what she wants to do. You are bringing court orders into the discussion when that isn't relevant at all to why I was asking.



Since California is a community property state, I need a few more details. Did you buy the home together as a married couple or did one of you own it prior to getting married and you transmuted it by adding the other's name to the deed?

That would be an EXTREMELY unusual situation in California. It is rare that a court would strip a father of joint legal custody and unless there were some physical abuse or neglect or the dad was totally absent from the child's life it doesn't happen. Physical custody does not determine legal custody. The default is joint legal custody. Dad has to be a pretty bad actor to get his legal custody rights stripped.

What exactly does the custody order say? Have you even read it or are you just going by what your husband says the order says? If you have in fact read it, what does it say exactly?

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Court orders are always relevant. As is marriage between dad and OP. So maybe you should realize what I am stating rather than criticizing me.

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Quoting StepParent007

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The dad never had any custodial rights and the mother never allowed the dad to make any major decisions, counseling, doctors, school, etc. The mother did go to counseling with the child from the school and I don't know what happened in those sessions but her behavior never changed. This went on for around 4 or 5 months that I know of. The dad always paid his child support and paid for her medical insurance and dental her entire life but he never had any rights. She did listen to him and heard his suggestions but she said the final decision was hers. It wasn't until the past year and a half that we started seeing eye to eye, not that they didn't get along because they did co-parent but the mom limited the dad's participation. We never thought the mom was doing anything wrong as we know how much she loves and cares for the child but in reality I am just an outsider looking in. I have absolutely no say so. I actually believe very strongly and I could be wrong that she needs psychological or psychiatric care. My guess and its only a guess is that she is bipolar but I think they are afraid to explore this option. I have also stated this to social services as well. They will send someone to our home once a week to evaluate the situation. Without a live-in caretaker in our home, I feel the situation will get worse so we are exploring the option of the dad's mother staying with us through the summer as she lives out of state. Maybe the mom and dad could have done more. What...I don't know. The dad felt very limited and the mom pretty much wanted to control the situation so dad didn't want to rock the boat so he could continue seeing his child. And although the mom and/or dad could have done more, when you live in a low income area where there is heavy force of gangs and wild kids that like to fight all the time, it makes it that much harder. The mom lives in a low income area, about an hour away from our home which is an average middle class area. I did think that her living in our neighborhood would make a difference but I will never really know. I am not trying to pass judgment because I know how hard it was for the mother. I have more sympathy for the mother now as we have first hand experience. But I really think she had problems from when she was very young so whether she lived with us or her mom, the problems would have still been the same. We also have explored independent counseling through my husband's insurance and not one psychologist would take on another client. My husband has a PPO and not one psychologist on the list would it. It was actually a miracle we found a facility to take her for 30 days when she went......that my husband's insurance would pay plus our co-pay. It appears that unless you have around $30,000 or more to put down, these facilities do not want to take you in. They are not satisfied with a co-pay and payment from insurance. That is whole other issue. Sorry for digressing.

And to quickly answer some of the other questions:

Has the child ever been reported to the police for her crimes? No, she keeps getting a pass but everyone is in agreement that whatever trouble she gets into next, it will be reported to the police.

Has the child ever had a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she has a mental health issue? No, I have been pleading for this but so far it has not happened. Remember, I am only the step-parent and have no rights or say so about what happens to this child, going to the doctor, etc.

As for calling the state, that is possible. I have a few clients that have done that when they have exhausted every other option. Social services is already involved and they are doing their best to help. They have spoken with her privately on several occasions and have determined that she simply does not want to follow rules and feels entitled especially to owning a cell phone where she runs rampid on social medial. A side thought from me is that Social Media is the root of all these problems. All her friends are on social media. She has no real friends that come over and hang out with. We have done everything to encourage and motivate her to join a sports team, cheer, dance, track, any school activity but she says she doesn't like have any friends because she doesn't trust anyone. And when her phone is taken away from unacceptable behavior on social media like terrorist threats for starters, she becomes hysterical and makes all kinds of threats. The phone remains locked away.

Who owns your home? My husband and I both own the home together.

Thank you for your time and your response.

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So again she has been failed by the adults in her life. Someone should have called the police on her. Dad should have went to court once these issues arose and got either some kind of custody or at the very least visitation.

"when you live in a low income area where there is heavy force of gangs and wild kids that like to fight all the time, it makes it that much harder." Give me a break. That's a piss poor excuse right there.

No the problems would not have been the same had someone stepped in and took control of the situation.

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Quoting StepParent007

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I am not understanding this line of questioning. I never mentioned anything about a "Court" physical order. The mom and dad were never married. When he left the mom, they immediately had a verbal arrangement for visitation and child support which he kept all these years. You are telling me that by default it is joint legal custody in California? I know I did not know that and I know for sure my husband did not know that either. We both always assumed that if the mom had full time physical custody, that was it. The school even told us that since the child was living with the mother full time that the mother had full physical custody and we never questioned it. There was no reason to apply for legal custody from the mother. Since the mom never gave him any problems anytime he wanted the child over, they never went to court. She was always pretty good about him spending time with the child. But when it came to school issues and doctors and things, he certainly was able to voice his opinion but the final decision was always hers. For the most part, there was nothing to fight with her about. We knew she had some issues but the mom always said she had it under control. In any event, I am a little confused. What difference does all this make now? It is water under the bridge. If my husband was wrong for not pursuing it further, then so be it. If the mom was wrong for not getting her to a psychologist sooner, then so be it. If I was wrong for not calling the police after she stole my phone, then so be it. What's done is done. We are trying to move forward. As for the property question, we bought the home together at the same time about a year ago. We did not buy it as married couple. We bought it as individuals because our lender recommended it because of our individual credit profiles.

As for the cell phone, you are preaching to the choir on this issue. I fought the idea to both the mom and dad directly about her having a cell phone in her possession but the grandmother (the mom's mom) snuck her a phone and is paying for it. I said to give the phone back to the grandmother because the phone has been the root of all her problems stemming from ridiculous fights with girls on social media. The child would become hysterical and would tell us that having a phone is vital for communications and that we are mean horrible people if we don't let her keep it and so on. I for one, did not bite but the mom strongly felt if she was going to dig herself a deeper hole with the cell phone to allow her to have it and if something bad resulted from her cell phone use, she would have to endure all the consequences and no one would save her. I completed disagreed with this method but as the step-mom I had no say as usual.
As for the dad, he did not want to argue with the mom and wanted to try her method to see what would happen so I had to be quiet and go along.
When you are a step-parent you are pretty much the bottom person on the totem pole when it comes to any decision making.

I want to thank everyone for all their responses but I will just work with social services on moving forward since I have no rights in my home, I will just have to continue to keep everything locked up and live like a prisoner. Giving me advice on continued counseling and so forth is really singing to the choir but I can't make this happen unless both parents are in agreement.
The last counseling attempt went south when she conned her way out of the facility by claiming a level 5 pain every day. You have to put all your energy, your heart and soul to get anything done and I know she is a child who needs help but I am done. She has burned me for the 101th time. I feel like a woman being tormented and abused by a bad husband and have nowhere to go. I have always felt when parents are split that the daughter is better with the mom and the son is better with the father and I know there are exceptions to this but in this case, I especially feel that way. Mostly, because when the mom talks, she does listen and appears to absorb what her mom is saying. Her mom is the only person she will be quiet and listen to.

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If they went to court it would be joint custody I think is what was said - but if she never took him to court or he never took her to court then there is no court order and he has no rights. He should have taken her to court. But yes this entire time the mother has had all the rights and the father none as they were unmarried at the time she was born.

And people have told you to move forward but we only bring up other things because you keep saying "nothing could have been done to change this" when that is false. A LOT could have changed this.

Your husband needs to stop letting mom and daughter walk all over him. He needs to stand up and be responsible. Not keep rolling over and taking it. He needs to go to court and get SOMETHING in writing for parental rights.

Send her to a private school somewhere. Military school. Something like that.

Obviously her mom is NOT the only one she will listen to if she's constantly in trouble and acting out.

What kind of people are you? Seriously? What is the point of all this blaming and finger pointing? Seriously. What's done is done. I am bringing up facts and to what has happened and the more I answer questions, the more evil your comments become. None of us can go back and change the past.

This is clearly not a forum of expertlaw.com where people can receive legal advice. This is clearly a judgment forum where people can sit behind a computer, judge you and tell you what you did wrong. What good is all that going to do now? Does it make you feel better to say that someone should have stepped in and taken control of the situation? Wth?? You have no idea what all of has been done. I mentioned in some of my posts that she did receive counseling several times with her mom and her, a private facility and again school. I have only provided a smidgen and a brief summary of many years. As for the low income area and heavy force of gang comment, I am mentioning it because it was an influence. She would make videos doing gang signs and start wearing colors (which was stopped immediately upon finding out).......clearly that was an influence but you can say all day long she was failed by the all adults in her life. I really don't care. All the adults in her life were a constant presence. She is not my child. I never raised her. She only came into our home a year ago. But sure, blame me for whatever you want......like I could really do anything. All the adults in her life, teachers, counselors, social workers, her doctors have all been involved for quite some time now so I guess every adult is one hot mess.

I believe this child has some psychological issues and it is a shame she did not get diagnosed but I have no control over that. If I did, I would have taken her to a psychologist myself but I have no rights. There is only so much a step parent can do especially with a child that never lived with me until recently.

So instead of giving me legal advice which is what I came on here to get, I get slammed about what we should have done instead of what we can do moving forward.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from saying anything at all.

God bless you all and may God enter your hearts and guide you from all this awful finger pointing as if stating that will actually make a difference.

You are not listening to what you have been told. You did get told what your options are. And they both suck so you have a decision to make. Stay or go. The only reason any of the other stuff is being said is because when you arent blaming Mom, you are defending Dad's non action, and submissive parenting. You are in this situation of being a prisoner in your own home because Dad didnt step up and do what needed to be done when it became obvious Moms way wasnt working. And sadly, now it may be too late.

You are also right that you have no rights to be able to do anything being that you are only the step parent. Your fault in this is simply that you think Dad couldn't possibly have done anything differently, and don't want him to have to pay out of pocket for his mistakes now. If you would just understand and accept that, then it wouldnt seem as though you are being attacked now.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your point. This is unfortunate all the way around. The reasons why I defend dad is because I have witnessed and so has the mother how much time and all the talks and time and steps he has taken including requesting her to live with him starting 5 years ago. And yes apparently enough steps were not taken. I don't think anyone realized or maybe didn't want to recognize that she actually could be bipolar or have other psychological issues. Dad has been paying out of pocket her whole life and never stopped. It was me that did not want to put him in an over burdensome situation and I will admit that I was wrong for that as that is not my decision to make as so many other things are not my decision. I just feel so helpless and so limited but thank you for your response.

What kind of people are you?

The same question could be said of you. I had a lot of sympathy for you and the position you were in until I read this:

Can I refuse her to live in our home without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state?

I can quite understand, given the circumstances, why you would not want to have her in the house. I don't judge you for that. But when you made it, even in part, about money and your/your husband preferring to have the taxpayers support her rather than your husband supporting his own child, you lost me, and I suspect I was not the only one.

When were you and dad married ?

Hi cbg,
Thank you so much for responding in kind and explaining your position. This was all I was asking and now I understand why all the accusations and without more background, I can understand why you and everyone else would think that. First, let me clear up that my husband never said he did not want to pay child support to the State. He has been paying child support under a verbal mutual agreement with the mother and it has worked out this entire time. There was the issue of medical insurance and dental insurance which is quite high so they came to an understanding that instead of just paying the State maximum for CS, that he would pay a small percentage less and pay the medical and dental in full in addition to the child support which they take out of his pay check. We know the State would not make this deal so this is all my fault and I will take responsibility for that. I did not want to put my husband in a position to pay the full maximum to the state and pay the medical and dental. I feel responsible because I am the one who is pushing for her to leave our home. I am a nervous wreck, extremely stressed and don't feel anything good will happen. I feel I would put an unnecessary burden on my husband, by paying CS to the state along with medical and dental. But since he has not been in the system ever and Social Services is aware of the arrangement, they strongly advised him to keep things the way they are and not go into the system and they are trying to work something out with a relative but I don't think the relative will be able to care for the child so it appears the child will have to live with us until she turns 18 unless she wants to go to Job Corp. Job Corp is voluntary and she has no interest in that at this time. My main concern was trying to figure out a way where the child did not have to live with us in our home. With the mother refusing to take her back was unexpected and just heartbreaking for me. The side comment about CS was all me not wanting to put him in the system so I apologize to everyone for that. We will just have to bite the bullet and deal with the situation until she turns 18. Who knows.....maybe a miracle will happens and she will turn her life around. I pray about this all the time. I hope this clear things up and sorry for coming across the way I did. Thank you for your time.

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Quoting StepParent007

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What kind of people are you? Seriously? What is the point of all this blaming and finger pointing? Seriously. What's done is done. I am bringing up facts and to what has happened and the more I answer questions, the more evil your comments become. None of us can go back and change the past.

This is clearly not a forum of expertlaw.com where people can receive legal advice. This is clearly a judgment forum where people can sit behind a computer, judge you and tell you what you did wrong. What good is all that going to do now? Does it make you feel better to say that someone should have stepped in and taken control of the situation? Wth?? You have no idea what all of has been done. I mentioned in some of my posts that she did receive counseling several times with her mom and her, a private facility and again school. I have only provided a smidgen and a brief summary of many years. As for the low income area and heavy force of gang comment, I am mentioning it because it was an influence. She would make videos doing gang signs and start wearing colors (which was stopped immediately upon finding out).......clearly that was an influence but you can say all day long she was failed by the all adults in her life. I really don't care. All the adults in her life were a constant presence. She is not my child. I never raised her. She only came into our home a year ago. But sure, blame me for whatever you want......like I could really do anything. All the adults in her life, teachers, counselors, social workers, her doctors have all been involved for quite some time now so I guess every adult is one hot mess.

I believe this child has some psychological issues and it is a shame she did not get diagnosed but I have no control over that. If I did, I would have taken her to a psychologist myself but I have no rights. There is only so much a step parent can do especially with a child that never lived with me until recently.

So instead of giving me legal advice which is what I came on here to get, I get slammed about what we should have done instead of what we can do moving forward.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from saying anything at all.

God bless you all and may God enter your hearts and guide you from all this awful finger pointing as if stating that will actually make a difference.

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Go read some other threads if you think this is bad..."evil comments" smh. Please.

You can NOT receive legal advice from ANY forum!! Did you read the disclaimer? Only a LAWYER can give you legal advice. Not even the lawyers on here can give you legal advice because you aren't their client.

YOU keep making excuses for your husband. That's the problem. You can't fix it now no. But you could have and you keep saying no one could have fixed it but that's bs.

No the low income area is not an influence because plenty of kids grow up in those areas and aren't like her and plenty of kids grow up in affluent areas and are like her. So no that's a bs excuse too. I don't care what you think about it.

You're right you have no control - so maybe your husband should be the one on here asking questions not you. In fact he SHOULD have been asking the questions and not you because HE is the one who is the parent.

Oh boo freaking hoo no one blamed you solely. Get over yourself already.

Again no one on here can give you legal advice. Since you didn't read the disclaimer here it is: Notice: Information provided in the forum is not intended to substitute for professional advice, including but not limited to professional legal advice. If you submit a question or comment it is assumed that you are interested in soliciting, receiving or giving general information and not legal advice. Laws vary by state, and the laws described in this forum may be different in your state or may have been changed since the information was posted. The legal help offered in this forum comes from volunteers who may not have any formal legal training or knowledge, and all information should be confirmed with a qualified legal professional. All information is made available on an "as is" basis. You should accept legal advice only from a licensed legal professional with whom you have an attorney-client relationship. Use of this forum is subject to the ExpertLaw terms of use.

Clear enough?

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Quoting cbg

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What kind of people are you?

The same question could be said of you. I had a lot of sympathy for you and the position you were in until I read this:

Can I refuse her to live in our home without my husband being put in a position to pay child support to the state?

I can quite understand, given the circumstances, why you would not want to have her in the house. I don't judge you for that. But when you made it, even in part, about money and your/your husband preferring to have the taxpayers support her rather than your husband supporting his own child, you lost me, and I suspect I was not the only one.

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You weren't alone. I was deleted though ... and I wasn't the only one there, either.

qwaspolk69
Yes, Clear Enough.
So let me be clear. I am not making excuses for anyone. Just trying to provide some events and causes of why things progressed they way they did, not that its an excuse. And again I say, what difference does it make? We can't go back and change the past so by referring to it over and over again is not changing anything.
If you think I am going to all of a sudden receive it well, think again.
You come across like a bully. People over computers feel quite a sense of power to act like they are so much better. It's a shame that some people use this forum to be mean to others and not used in a positive way. There are mean spirited people who just try to make other people feel bad instead of providing genuine advice.
Everyone kept asking for more background info, so I provided it. I already acknowledged the fact that more could have been done but I can't change anything. Also, as the step-parent, you are saying I should not be on here asking for advice. I think you are right about that. I have no right to ask for advice for myself. What was I thinking? Well, thanks for clarifying and now I know.
Thanks for providing the disclaimer as well and this is what you are 100% right about. I did not read it and that is 100% my fault.
I have learned a great lesson here in posting in online forums.
Thanks for being so transparent and showing so much compassion and understanding.