Can a Grandparent Get Custody if a Teen Mom is Out of Control

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Washington.
I'm perplexed by this situation. I'm very familiar with third party custody laws in the state of Washington, but I'm lost on this one. I'm hoping that someone here can help me with this question.
A friend of mine has a 16 year old daughter who recently had a baby. She is about one month old now. Both baby and mom live at home with my friend. My friend is bending over backwards to help her daughter. She loves the baby very much and is very supportive of her daughter and baby.
Recently she contacted me concerned about her grandchild. While grandma is out working all day mom stays with the baby. Lately mom has been taking off with the baby and not telling grandma where they are. Hanging out with friends all night, and basically behaving irresponsibly in regards the baby.
My friend spent hours searching for baby and mom all night last week. she was terrified as the teen recently got out of an abusive relationship and has been being harassed by him and others in his circle. After the latest occurrence my friend asked if I would help her legally get custody of the baby. She fears that the child will end up in state custody or worse if she doesn't step in and get custody.
My concern is that she is already the young mom's custodian. If she goes and files a court case alledging her child is behaving wildly, not in school, and is a neglectful 16 year old mom I feel like she will be shooting herself in the foot.
I worry a judge would likely place baby and mom in foster care because by doing this it looks like she is not capable of controlling her own daughter.
I am not sure how she could go about this. the teen will likely not agree to sign custody over. Yet the baby is not in good hands with the teen Mom. She is a 16 year old and she acts like one. She is taking baby out at night in 30 degree weather. Having young people pick her and baby up and drop her off. They are out at night driving in snow and ice with the baby. Grandma has put a stop to baby going out with mom as of last week but the teen Mom is now leaving baby with grandma and not coming home at night. grandma fears mom might take off with the baby and run away because she is defiant. grandma is afraid her daughter will end up getting tabby taken away by dcfs. in this state grandparents have no right to custody after the state steps in. It's scary and I just don't know what to do to help.

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Quoting Pythia

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My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Washington.
I'm perplexed by this situation. I'm very familiar with third party custody laws in the state of Washington, but I'm lost on this one. I'm hoping that someone here can help me with this question.
A friend of mine has a 16 year old daughter who recently had a baby. She is about one month old now. Both baby and mom live at home with my friend. My friend is bending over backwards to help her daughter. She loves the baby very much and is very supportive of her daughter and baby.
Recently she contacted me concerned about her grandchild. While grandma is out working all day mom stays with the baby. Lately mom has been taking off with the baby and not telling grandma where they are. Hanging out with friends all night, and basically behaving irresponsibly in regards the baby.
My friend spent hours searching for baby and mom all night last week. she was terrified as the teen recently got out of an abusive relationship and has been being harassed by him and others in his circle. After the latest occurrence my friend asked if I would help her legally get custody of the baby. She fears that the child will end up in state custody or worse if she doesn't step in and get custody.
My concern is that she is already the young mom's custodian. If she goes and files a court case alledging her child is behaving wildly, not in school, and is a neglectful 16 year old mom I feel like she will be shooting herself in the foot.
I worry a judge would likely place baby and mom in foster care because by doing this it looks like she is not capable of controlling her own daughter.
I am not sure how she could go about this. the teen will likely not agree to sign custody over. Yet the baby is not in good hands with the teen Mom. She is a 16 year old and she acts like one. She is taking baby out at night in 30 degree weather. Having young people pick her and baby up and drop her off. They are out at night driving in snow and ice with the baby. Grandma has put a stop to baby going out with mom as of last week but the teen Mom is now leaving baby with grandma and not coming home at night. grandma fears mom might take off with the baby and run away because she is defiant. grandma is afraid her daughter will end up getting tabby taken away by dcfs. in this state grandparents have no right to custody after the state steps in. It's scary and I just don't know what to do to help.

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You can do nothing. NOTHING you have stated gives grandma the right to sue the parents of her grandchild for custody and show that the mother is unfit.

If Mom wants to go and hang with friends and take her baby with her, that's her prerogative. Taking the baby out in cold weather is ... taking the baby out in cold weather. If someone has a car and is driving, then obviously Mom and baby are safe. And let's be truthful here .. I also live in WA and how many times have we had subzero temps this season? Exactly. The weather is never going to be as bad as North Dakota for example and, yet, people take their children out in the cold, and do what they have to do - it's just life.

I understand that Grandma is concerned, but nothing you have stated even comes close to neglect. Grandma also has NO RIGHT to stop Mom from taking HER child when she goes out.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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If Mom wants to go and hang with friends and take her baby with her, that's her prerogative. Taking the baby out in cold weather is ... taking the baby out in cold weather. If someone has a car and is driving, then obviously Mom and baby are safe. And let's be truthful here .. I also live in WA and how many times have we had subzero temps this season? Exactly. The weather is never going to be as bad as North Dakota for example and, yet, people take their children out in the cold, and do what they have to do - it's just life.

I understand that Grandma is concerned, but nothing you have stated even comes close to neglect. Grandma also has NO RIGHT to stop Mom from taking HER child when she goes out.

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It is not anyone's prerogative to expose children to physical violence and drug culture. Living in Washington you probably know that those two things make a parent unfit. I know for a fact those issues give adequate cause to bring a third party custody case to court. I know this because that's how I ended up raising my family member's child and got full legal permanent custody.
All day every day kids are taken by the system for these reasons. That's grandma's main concern (keeping baby out of the system).
Mom would still live with baby and be mom. no one ever wants to take a child away with out good cause. Even when there is good cause it's emotionally painful for all parties involved.
As some one who personally has witnessed the system at work on both sides I agree with grandma.
Once dcfs gets involved they could lose the baby to a loving foster to adopt family forever. I would not be here posting if grandma didn't have adequate cause. She does.
I'm just concerned if she does take mom to court baby will still end up in the system because it makes mom and grandma both look unfit if mom is out of control and exposing her baby to these situations.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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If Mom wants to go and hang with friends and take her baby with her, that's her prerogative. Taking the baby out in cold weather is ... taking the baby out in cold weather. If someone has a car and is driving, then obviously Mom and baby are safe. And let's be truthful here .. I also live in WA and how many times have we had subzero temps this season? Exactly. The weather is never going to be as bad as North Dakota for example and, yet, people take their children out in the cold, and do what they have to do - it's just life.

I understand that Grandma is concerned, but nothing you have stated even comes close to neglect. Grandma also has NO RIGHT to stop Mom from taking HER child when she goes out.

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Sorry if my first post is unclear about my question. I just want to know if you guys think that her bringing the mom to court will make her look unfit as well.

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Quoting Pythia

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It is not anyone's prerogative to expose children to physical violence and drug culture. Living in Washington you probably know that those two things make a parent unfit. I know for a fact those issues give adequate cause to bring a third party custody case to court. I know this because that's how I ended up raising my family member's child and got full legal permanent custody.

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You don't know nearly as much as you think you do, unfortunately.

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All day every day kids are taken by the system for these reasons.

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Not so much, actually. Nowhere near the rates you seem to believe, at least.

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That's grandma's main concern (keeping baby out of the system).

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I'm sure.

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Mom would still live with baby and be mom. no one ever wants to take a child away with out good cause. Even when there is good cause it's emotionally painful for all parties involved.
As some one who personally has witnessed the system at work on both sides I agree with grandma.

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That's very nice.

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Once dcfs gets involved they could lose the baby to a loving foster to adopt family forever.

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But I thought this was about the welfare of a child? No?

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I would not be here posting if grandma didn't have adequate cause. She does.

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Why isn't grandma here?

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I'm just concerned if she does take mom to court baby will still end up in the system because it makes mom and grandma both look unfit if mom is out of control and exposing her baby to these situations.

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That's a valid concern. If Grandma failed raising one child, the state is going to be reluctant to place someone else's child with her.

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Sorry if my first post is unclear about my question. I just want to know if you guys think that her bringing the mom to court will make her look unfit as well.

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You're actually missing a few key concepts.

Frankly, if Grandma really wanted what's best for the child you wouldn't be here asking questions on her behalf, and the state would already be involved. Grandma would be less concerned about her fitness being called into question than the welfare of two children.

Look. I know you mean well, but what you think you know doesn't actually reflect the reality at all.

Tell Grandma to speak with an attorney.

Well, it seems that you have your answer and you came by it all on your own!

Doggie was saying that taking the child out with friends in the cold is the mother's prerogative, she said nothing about drugs or violence. Driving around on snow and ice with a baby is common throughout much of the US. It would seem that you are into taking the baby away from the mother, Mrs. Kravitz.

DCFS actually works hard to NOT take children away. Also, there are many children that grow up around drugs and alcohol and violence...even here in WA (I live here too). Given that the mom is a teenager she'll have many, many chances and grandma, or other mom, should help by guiding her daughter, not by wresting her granddaughter from her daughters hands which will create a downward spiral that will be virtually impossible for the 16yo to pull out of but with advice and tough love.

As to your question regarding whether or not the grandmother will look bad...I say yes.

And of course ... Dad.

;)

And really, how come drugs etc. didn't come up in the first post?

That's usually quite telling.

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Quoting Mark47n

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Well, it seems that you have your answer and you came by it all on your own!

Doggie was saying that taking the child out with friends in the cold is the mother's prerogative, she said nothing about drugs or violence. Driving around on snow and ice with a baby is common throughout much of the US. It would seem that you are into taking the baby away from the mother, Mrs. Kravitz.

DCFS actually works hard to NOT take children away. Also, there are many children that grow up around drugs and alcohol and violence...even here in WA (I live here too). Given that the mom is a teenager she'll have many, many chances and grandma, or other mom, should help by guiding her daughter, not by wresting her granddaughter from her daughters hands which will create a downward spiral that will be virtually impossible for the 16yo to pull out of but with advice and tough love.

As to your question regarding whether or not the grandmother will look bad...I say yes.

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Thank you for your advice...polite, intelligent and to the point. you win this thread. Best answer

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Quoting Dogmatique

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And of course ... Dad.

;)

And really, how come drugs etc. didn't come up in the first post?

That's usually quite telling.

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I really didn't want to post a whole bunch of personal stuff about a minor. I didn't feel it was necessary until I got questioned regarding grandma and her motives. It seemed like you assumed she is some crazed lunatic who wants to steal a baby. She has raised three kids of her own already and is not happy about having to do this. Her motives are not bad but I fear they could result in a negative outcome. The father behaved as many young father's do and bailed right away when he found out she was pregnant. He wants nothing to do with her.

I worked for a company that contracts with DCFS until I had to step up to care for an infant. The company handled many things like casework and visitation supervision to name a few. I know way too much abt DCFS and their practices. I have read so many files and seen so many situations occur that are totally not in line with their policies. some social workers just make up policies as they go along to fit their own ideas. others were absolute saints. depends on the person.
The dv alone could result in removal and falls under the wide reaching vague definition of general neglect, the leading cause of removal in the USA. Number one reason for a kid to enter foster care. 10000 plus kids in Washington state care is alot in my opinion. I guess everyone has opinions thoughts. I believe that's alot of children who could be with family members instead.

The vague definition of neglect and abuse http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=388-15-009

A child being in the custody of its family is in the child's best interest period. unless there is good reason for remova which they don't need. they take people to court based on gossip. It's up to a judge ultimately to remove but judges usually side with the department. DCFS often will not place with family and prefers foster homes from my own experience with them.
The grandma is not here because she is probably looking elsewhere for advice. I chose to ask for input due to the fact this is a situation I don't think she should jump the gun on because I think it might backfire. I don't want to spend time and energy helping her if the outcome just ends up worse than before.
While a teenager having a baby and behaving this way is not ideal it doesn't mean the grandma failed. Teenagers can be difficult, as she is but she could end up just fine as an adult. I don't believe any caring parent or grandma would want DCFS involved. All they do is complicate things with their beurocracy.
I once had a client who was 7 months old and moved 7 times before leaving state custody. In the end the department took a baby, traumatized him and it was all for nothing. How helpful and caring lol. This was all based on hearsay not facts as most cases are. no such thing as a shadow of a doubt with dcfs. they do what ever they want. Who on earth would put their grandkid in a situation where that could occur? Doesn't sound caring to me.
Some times personal involvement can skew perception of a situation and it's best to get input from others before acting or getting involved. That's why I came here.

If your friend is the mother and legal guardian to the 16 year old child with a baby, then why doesn't your friend ground, restrict, discipline her daughter so that she does NOT go catting around all night long? Mom can take away her teen daughter's phone, computer, etc., and restrict her from going out. Has she surrendered her parental responsibilities for some reason?

I agree and that's why I am concerned about her ability to get custody of the baby if it has to come down to that. if grandma has a contested case with the mom I'm not seeing how she can get custody. I'm sure DCFS is going to step in at some point if things like this continue to happen. A mandated reporter will say something if there are visible issues like mom not picking her kid up from daycare.Hopefully things work out for them all.

The daughter takes off while the grandma works to support her and the baby. Mom can't start school yet she is still recovering from having her baby. Although she does strike me as one of those kids who is likely To take off from school. She seems to just do what she wants regardless of what her mom says. When grandma gets off work she takes care of the baby. she doesn't think the mom should be taking the baby out to do whatever it is she does. Then the mom leaves again.

Certainly if Grandma cannot keep her own kid from going out at all hours and hanging around drugs and physical violence (which is what you are alleging the mother does, though I’m not sure how you know what the mother does when she goes out) then Grandma might indeed face problems with DCFS with regards to her own child, let alone what DCFS might do with regard to the grandchild. And the only way Grandma can get custody over Mom’s objections is basically to call in DCFS and have Mom declared unfit, with the risk that Grandma might lose her own kid because Mom and the grandchild are both being exposed to the same things that you allege amount to neglect and abuse.

Frankly, given how Mom evidently turned out after being raised by Grandma, why should the grandchild be raised by Grandma? I can’t see that turning out any better.

To be fair, I hesitate to place the blame on a parent for how a child turns out without knowing more facts. In my time as a sworn officer and as an educator, I have seen many great kids come from crappy parents, and crappy kids come from great parents. Certainly a parent might make some errors that contribute to the problem, but, it is not always the parents fault, alone, when a child turns out to be bad. If it's their fault for the bad kids, should they also be given credit for raising the occasional GOOD kid that comes froam crappy home?

There was one family I knew that I had to deal with on a weekly basis for years. Mom and dad were tweakers, thieves, committed welfare fraud, had two teenage daughters who were frequent flyers for assaults and thefts, and two younger kids that had not yet hit our radar screen. One day, after dad kidnapped mom from a drug house and they threatened each other with an assortment of weapons (a gun, a machete and a knife) and pummeled each other, I was at the scene with both mom and dad in custody, the two younger siblings pending placement with CPS, and the teenage daughters already on the lam with juvenile detention orders from previous offenses. While there, I was informed that someone was bringing their teenage son to the scene. I had to ask myself, "What son?" I had been dealing with these people for years and had no idea there was a son! Well, he arrived on scene and it turns out that he was a 17 year old I knew as an athlete, 4.0 student (in one of my classes ta boot), and an all around great young man!

First words from him: "What did mom and dad do now?"
From me: "I had no idea you were their son."
Him: "Yeah ... I don't tell too many people about that."

I interceded with CPS to keep him and his two younger siblings together and in town (otherwise they would have gone to 2 homes out of town), and they made an emergency placement with his grandparents. If not, my wife and I were going to take them (as we were already respite car foster parents). I did not want him to miss any school or lose his job, and he wanted to be with his younger siblings.

This particular young man was Homecoming king, a varsity football captain, graduated with a 4.0 GPA, honest, a role-model, and applied for early admission to the USMC. He's been active now for a year.

This young man was the most extreme example of gold coming from crap, but, it CAN and does happen ... sadly, not as often as I'd like.

Okay, sorry for the meandering tale ... long night.

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Quoting cdwjava

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To be fair, I hesitate to place the blame on a parent for how a child turns out without knowing more facts. In my time as a sworn officer and as an educator, I have seen many great kids come from crappy parents, and crappy kids come from great parents. Certainly a parent might make some errors that contribute to the problem, but, it is not always the parents fault, alone, when a child turns out to be bad.

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There is a reason for the old saying “the acorn does not fall far from the tree.” Sure, you will find instances where great kids turn out despite having horrible parents and vice-versa. But in my experience, that’s more the exception than the rule. How a parent raises a kid really does have an impact on how they turn out.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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There is a reason for the old saying “the acorn does not fall far from the tree.” Sure, you will find instances where great kids turn out despite having horrible parents and vice-versa. But in my experience, that’s more the exception than the rule. How a parent raises a kid really does have an impact on how they turn out.

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I do agree. But, in this case we have no idea how grandma raised her daughter. We "know" only that teen mom appears to be irresponsible and possibly a trainwreck right now. While it is likely that grandma's mistakes contributed mightily to the problem, this is not always the case.

If driving on ice and snow was a valid reason to take custody away from a parent, then two years ago every parent in the state of Massachusetts who took their child out of the house for any reason between the months of December and March would have lost custody of their children. Of course, the foster parents they were placed with would also have had to lose their guardianship for the same reason. That's a lot of children to fit into the system because of an inevitable weather phenomenon. I'm not sure Massachusetts has enough group homes.

Thanks for sharing this story. It's a good one and for some reason it made me feel happy. I agree that good parents can end up with bad kids and vice versa. I have seen a lot of different family backgrounds and it seems like once drugs get hold of parents or children then things go south. My relative who was once a star fast pich player, 4.0 student, and drop dead gorgeous is now consumed by heroin and meth addiction combined. What makes a mom of two in her thirties decide to start using? I have no idea. After that her addiction got so bad her kids were taken by their father, she was chronically homeless. she is a shell of the person she once was. In the end I'm not sure who to blame...her, drugs? I don't blame her parents

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Quoting Pythia

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Thank you for your advice...polite, intelligent and to the point. you win this thread. Best answer



I really didn't want to post a whole bunch of personal stuff about a minor. I didn't feel it was necessary until I got questioned regarding grandma and her motives. It seemed like you assumed she is some crazed lunatic who wants to steal a baby. She has raised three kids of her own already and is not happy about having to do this. Her motives are not bad but I fear they could result in a negative outcome. The father behaved as many young father's do and bailed right away when he found out she was pregnant. He wants nothing to do with her.

I worked for a company that contracts with DCFS until I had to step up to care for an infant. The company handled many things like casework and visitation supervision to name a few. I know way too much abt DCFS and their practices. I have read so many files and seen so many situations occur that are totally not in line with their policies. some social workers just make up policies as they go along to fit their own ideas. others were absolute saints. depends on the person.
The dv alone could result in removal and falls under the wide reaching vague definition of general neglect, the leading cause of removal in the USA. Number one reason for a kid to enter foster care. 10000 plus kids in Washington state care is alot in my opinion. I guess everyone has opinions thoughts. I believe that's alot of children who could be with family members instead.

The vague definition of neglect and abuse http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=388-15-009

A child being in the custody of its family is in the child's best interest period. unless there is good reason for remova which they don't need. they take people to court based on gossip. It's up to a judge ultimately to remove but judges usually side with the department. DCFS often will not place with family and prefers foster homes from my own experience with them.
The grandma is not here because she is probably looking elsewhere for advice. I chose to ask for input due to the fact this is a situation I don't think she should jump the gun on because I think it might backfire. I don't want to spend time and energy helping her if the outcome just ends up worse than before.
While a teenager having a baby and behaving this way is not ideal it doesn't mean the grandma failed. Teenagers can be difficult, as she is but she could end up just fine as an adult. I don't believe any caring parent or grandma would want DCFS involved. All they do is complicate things with their beurocracy.
I once had a client who was 7 months old and moved 7 times before leaving state custody. In the end the department took a baby, traumatized him and it was all for nothing. How helpful and caring lol. This was all based on hearsay not facts as most cases are. no such thing as a shadow of a doubt with dcfs. they do what ever they want. Who on earth would put their grandkid in a situation where that could occur? Doesn't sound caring to me.
Some times personal involvement can skew perception of a situation and it's best to get input from others before acting or getting involved. That's why I came here.

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Are you the grandma and just pretending to be a third party? You seem way too involved in this honestly. If grandma wants to get legal answers SHE can talk to a lawyer.

It doesn't matter if he wants to be a father or not - once that teenager applies for government assistance they'll ask her who the dad is.

They do not take people to court based purely on gossip. If that were the case my ex sister in law would have been in court about her four daughters. Someone called CPS on her (albeit she lives in a different state and not in Washington). But there are rumors her husband is a drug dealer and that cars were coming and going late into the night at their house. I'm not sure who called her in. I have heard it was her mom or her stepdad maybe her ex's mom. No one will admit it. But all they did was talk to the girls. Probably talked to her and her husband (who is shady as ****) and case closed. Nothing happened to them. No court.

So you know what a 7 month old thinks and feels? Really? Hmm that's weird.

You have no stake in this. You are going to harm your friend more than help her.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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Certainly if Grandma cannot keep her own kid from going out at all hours and hanging around drugs and physical violence (which is what you are alleging the mother does, though I’m not sure how you know what the mother does when she goes out)

then Grandma might indeed face problems with DCFS with regards to her own child, let alone what DCFS might do with regard to the grandchild. And the only way Grandma can get custody over Mom’s objections is basically to call in DCFS and have Mom declared unfit, with the risk that Grandma might lose her own kid because Mom and the grandchild are both being exposed to the same things that you allege amount to neglect and abuse.

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Frankly, given how Mom evidently turned out after being raised by Grandma, why should the grandchild be raised by Grandma? I can’t see that turning out any better.

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Sadly it's not always parents' fault when children make these kinds of choices. Grandma needs to do something to prevent this situation from getting worse. The mom is still a child and still growing up. As of now she has turned out to be a rebellious teenager. She is not the first or last. Even stellar parents end up with teenagers that rebel or worse. Look at how the Mendez brothers turned out.

Everyone who knows her knows what she is doing while out because she puts it all over the internet. The boyfriend was very abusive according to the teen. Hitting, choking, slamming her head around the car while driving. Baby is in the car. This of course is all over her fb wall. Him bantering back and forth with her on her wall. Other girls saying he was abusive during their relationship. Hundreds of comments from tons of people. It's a trainwreck. It has resulted in grandma thinking baby would be safest in her custody legally.

I'm not sure why many of you would assume I'm just making baseless accusations to have a good time on a Saturday night. Obviously I came here for good reason. what she is doing is abuse and neglect. Period. There is proof it occurred all over the Internet. It is neglect and it is backed up by proof.

If Baby is being abused/neglected, why has no ADULT stepped forward and dropped that dime to CPS?

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Quoting qwaspolk69

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Are you the grandma and just pretending to be a third party? You seem way too involved in this honestly. If grandma wants to get legal answers SHE can talk to a lawyer.

It doesn't matter if he wants to be a father or not - once that teenager applies for government assistance they'll ask her who the dad is.


They do not take people to court based purely on gossip. If that were the case my ex sister in law would have been in court about her four daughters. Someone called CPS on her (albeit she lives in a different state and not in Washington). But there are rumors her husband is a drug dealer and that cars were coming and going late into the night at their house. I'm not sure who called her in. I have heard it was her mom or her stepdad maybe her ex's mom. No one will admit it. But all they did was talk to the girls. Probably talked to her and her husband (who is shady as ****) and case closed. Nothing happened to them. No court.

So you know what a 7 month old thinks and feels? Really? Hmm that's weird.

You have no stake in this. You are going to harm your friend more than help her.

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I am not the grandma, I'm her friend. I have known her for 21 years now.

I have seen cases involving non verbal children and infants where they are taken into custody based on gossip that was unable to be proven false. You don't have to have to be a child psychologist, psychic, or rocket scientist to any foster child would be traumatized getting moved and displaced so often. It is detrimental to infant development and older children as well. I have no stake in this you're right and that's why I am here asking first to prevent harm. I'm not sure how anonymous posting on here would harm the people involved want to enlighten me some how on that?

I am sure at the rate the girls putting her business out there someone has or will. I know grandma is looking out for the baby so I am not concerned as long as she is there and mom is not bringing baby out..

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Quoting Pythia

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Everyone who knows her knows what she is doing while out because she puts it all over the internet. The boyfriend was very abusive according to the teen. Hitting, choking, slamming her head around the car while driving. Baby is in the car. This of course is all over her fb wall. Him bantering back and forth with her on her wall. Other girls saying he was abusive during their relationship. Hundreds of comments from tons of people. It's a trainwreck. It has resulted in grandma thinking baby would be safest in her custody legally.

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I have two comments on this. First, if Grandma knew the boyfriend was abusing her daughter, why didn’t she do whatever she could, including going to court to get a restraining order against him and reporting his assaults to police, to keep him away from her? Why didn’t she step in to protect her daughter? This is exactly why I suspect that Grandma may have her share of blame for her daughter’s and grandchild’s situation and why, absent knowing all the details, I would question whether Grandma is an appropriate choice for custody of the grandchild if the mother were proven unfit.

Second, you speak of the relationship with the boyfriend in the past tense. That suggests he is no longer in the picture, right? If that’s true, then whatever occurred with him in the past cannot be used now to support a change in custody since that boyfriend is no longer a threat to the child (if he ever was — he may have only ever been a threat to the mother, not the child).

The bottom line here is that custody will not change if the mother objects to it without the mother being found unfit. That takes a lot more than been a teen and going out partying. But if the mother is found unfit there is a risk that Grandma could come under fire for her role in caring for her daughter. After all, part of what you allege is unfit behavior by Grandma’s daughter that is putting the grandchild at risk are things that Grandma ought to be able to control and prevent. I feel bad for the grandchild since, based on what you’ve said so far, I’m getting the impression that perhaps neither Mom nor grandma really are great candidates for custody. Nevertheless, the law does not demand that parents be great. It only requires that they not abuse or severely neglect their kids. Unless the granddaughter is doing that, Grandma really has no shot at getting custody over the mother’s objections. And Grandma might not really want a DCFS investigation in her house if she is unwilling to take the steps necessary to control her own daughter.

Mark47n, and cdwjava I would like to thank you for your insight and advice. It's nice to get the advice I came here for from people who know what they are talking about. I'm not sure why other members get so confrontational and judgemental but I have seen it on other threads as well.

I almost didn't post here to ask for input because I have read other threads and certain volunteers seem kind of rude and just seem like they want a debate or argument. It doesn't seem like they are here to give help and advice. seems like they are here to give answers that are discouraging, inaccurate and rude to people who are caring and need legit legal advice.

In one post some one was asking advice about an abandoned infant left at their house and was told in a very rude manner that she was the one in the wrong. Pretty sure child abandonment is illegal every where and good cause to bring a case to court. Also the poor lady was addressed rudely in my opinion for simply trying to do what's best for an infant she cared about enough to provide for and raised for ten weeks out of love and kindness. Sad seeing people come for help and get treated that way. It will result in a loss of traffic for this website eventually when there is avvo out there.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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I have two comments on this. First, if Grandma knew the boyfriend was abusing her daughter, why didn’t she do whatever she could, including going to court to get a restraining order against him and reporting his assaults to police, to keep him away from her? Why didn’t she step in to protect her daughter? This is exactly why I suspect that Grandma may have her share of blame for her daughter’s and grandchild’s situation and why, absent knowing all the details, I would question whether Grandma is an appropriate choice for custody of the grandchild if the mother were proven unfit.

Second, you speak of the relationship with the boyfriend in the past tense. That suggests he is no longer in the picture, right? If that’s true, then whatever occurred with him in the past cannot be used now to support a change in custody since that boyfriend is no longer a threat to the child (if he ever was — he may have only ever been a threat to the mother, not the child).

The bottom line here is that custody will not change if the mother objects to it without the mother being found unfit. That takes a lot more than been a teen and going out partying. But if the mother is found unfit there is a risk that Grandma could come under fire for her role in caring for her daughter. After all, part of what you allege is unfit behavior by Grandma’s daughter that is putting the grandchild at risk are things that Grandma ought to be able to control and prevent. I feel bad for the grandchild since, based on what you’ve said so far, I’m getting the impression that perhaps neither Mom nor grandma really are great candidates for custody. Nevertheless, the law does not demand that parents be great. It only requires that they not abuse or severely neglect their kids. Unless the granddaughter is doing that, Grandma really has no shot at getting custody over the mother’s objections. And Grandma might not really want a DCFS investigation in her house if she is unwilling to take the steps necessary to control her own daughter.

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I agree taxing and thank you for your input. Great points. Grandma has only recently found out about this dv stuff and had no idea it was happening until they broke up. He is out of the picture but should he start doing anything wrong the police will get called.

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Quoting BooRennie

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If Baby is being abused/neglected, why has no ADULT stepped forward and dropped that dime to CPS?

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Like taxing said the abusive boyfriend is gone now and it would be irrelevant to DCFS. They would only screen it in for information. Also grandma doesn't want DCFS involved for obvious reasons i already discussed. This situation is not a good looking one for Grandma in my opinion and seemingly everyone else's here.

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Quoting Pythia

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Sadly it's not always parents' fault when children make these kinds of choices. Grandma needs to do something to prevent this situation from getting worse. The mom is still a child and still growing up. As of now she has turned out to be a rebellious teenager. She is not the first or last. Even stellar parents end up with teenagers that rebel or worse. Look at how the Mendez brothers turned out.

Everyone who knows her knows what she is doing while out because she puts it all over the internet. The boyfriend was very abusive according to the teen. Hitting, choking, slamming her head around the car while driving. Baby is in the car. This of course is all over her fb wall. Him bantering back and forth with her on her wall. Other girls saying he was abusive during their relationship. Hundreds of comments from tons of people. It's a trainwreck. It has resulted in grandma thinking baby would be safest in her custody legally.

I'm not sure why many of you would assume I'm just making baseless accusations to have a good time on a Saturday night. Obviously I came here for good reason. what she is doing is abuse and neglect. Period. There is proof it occurred all over the Internet. It is neglect and it is backed up by proof.

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So there is "proof" of abuse toward the teen and the baby but you nor her mother/the grandmother reported it? Really? You just sit by while teens and babies are abused? I'm sorry but if I saw one of my friends post that her boyfriend was beating the shit out of her I would call the cops. And if the baby was near all this I would CALL THE ****ING COPS! You are just as much responsible IF there is abuse going on if you saw this posting and did nothing.

Then again just because someone posts something on Facebook doesn't mean it's true.

No we are just assuming that something weird is going on because you keep adding and adding to the story.

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Quoting Pythia

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Mark47n, and cdwjava I would like to thank you for your insight and advice. It's nice to get the advice I came here for from people who know what they are talking about. I'm not sure why other members get so confrontational and judgemental but I have seen it on other threads as well.

I almost didn't post here to ask for input because I have read other threads and certain volunteers seem kind of rude and just seem like they want a debate or argument. It doesn't seem like they are here to give help and advice. seems like they are here to give answers that are discouraging, inaccurate and rude to people who are caring and need legit legal advice.

In one post some one was asking advice about an abandoned infant left at their house and was told in a very rude manner that she was the one in the wrong. Pretty sure child abandonment is illegal every where and good cause to bring a case to court. Also the poor lady was addressed rudely in my opinion for simply trying to do what's best for an infant she cared about enough to provide for and raised for ten weeks out of love and kindness. Sad seeing people come for help and get treated that way. It will result in a loss of traffic for this website eventually when there is avvo out there.



I agree taxing and thank you for your input. Great points. Grandma has only recently found out about this dv stuff and had no idea it was happening until they broke up. He is out of the picture but should he start doing anything wrong the police will get called.



Like taxing said the abusive boyfriend is gone now and it would be irrelevant to DCFS. They would only screen it in for information. Also grandma doesn't want DCFS involved for obvious reasons i already discussed. This situation is not a good looking one for Grandma in my opinion and seemingly everyone else's here.

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Do you have stock in Avvo or something? You sure do plug it a lot on here. Then go to Avvo and get advice from lawyers. This is just a forum to get GENERAL INFORMATION!!! READ THE DAMN DISCLAIMER!

The post was made on her Facebook page in an argument after they broke up. Obviously the cops were called. Because he denies it and there is no "proof" a crime was committed nothing was done as police enforce laws not gossip. It's his word against her word. No marks or solid proof to back up the girls claims. I'm adding to the story because people keep asking for more details that were not included in the first post. So I add those details in.
Wish I had stock in avvo that place is golden. I did go there but posted here as well.

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Quoting Pythia

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The post was made on her Facebook page in an argument after they broke up. Obviously the cops were called. Because he denies it and there is no "proof" a crime was committed nothing was done as police enforce laws not gossip. It's his word against her word. No marks or solid proof to back up the girls claims. I'm adding to the story because people keep asking for more details that were not included in the first post. So I add those details in.
Wish I had stock in avvo that place is golden. I did go there but posted here as well.

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So she very well could have made all that up about her boyfriend abusing her right?

Honestly if I were you I'd mind my own business on this one because you're just going to cause someone a lot of trouble. You should have put ALL the FACTS in the OP.