Driver's License Placed in USPS Mailbox After Speeding Stop

My question involves a driver's license issued by the State of: Pennsylvania

I was stopped by a city police officer on a speeding "entrapment" detail on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving 11/22/2016. Many, many drivers were stopped. I was in a 25 mile an hour zone heading into a 35 mile an hour zone doing 42 miles an hour. The officer neglected to return my driver's license and registration. I heard someone enter my vestibule after midnight the same night. I originally thought it was my renter, but my wife found my driver's license and registration placed in our USPS mailbox the following morning, indicating the officer put my driver's license and registration in the mailbox. USPS law indicates that mailable non-postage paid items placed in a USPS mailbox are punishable by fines of up to $5000 per individual and $10,000 per organization. Does anyone have any information as to how to go about fighting my speeding ticket by going down the road of letting the police department know that they violated USPS law by putting the items in my mailbox? I posted the USPS law in question below:

3.1.3 Use for Mail
Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail. [D041.1.3]

I'm glad you put "entrapment" in quotation marks. This wasn't entrapment in the least. Catching people who neglect to slow down for a change in posted speed is called "good police work." Would you rather have had the officer mail your documents back to you? Or bang on the door until you came out?

Yeah, he broke the postal regs. Complain to his department. It won't get you out of the ticket. It's entirely immaterial if the officer subsequently broke the law or not as to your culpability for your offense.

Yeah. That ain't gonna work.

You are attempting what is often considered blackmail or extortion. Ya, go ahead and make a big deal about what they did with your license.


Or you could simply appreciate they did drop it off rather than requiring you to drive to the police station, wherever that may be, and pick up your documents

or even worse; simply say they didn't have them where you would have to go through the bother of obtaining new documents.


Btw: chances are the USPS wouldn't raise an eyebrow to your situation. While it is improprer to place items in a postal box that has not been processed by the USPS, it is their option whether to seek prosecution of the offender. Given the laws are intended to provide the USPS with a means to deal with mass distributors that would use the post box as a general receptacle for their junk mail (sans postage) the USPS is not likely to get all worked up over your single incident.

The detail was specifically designed to bring money into government coffers. It was not based on the "spirit of the law" - to keep people and property safe on the road. It was based on the "letter of the law". That same route is used by the police time and time again specifically to stop people and bring in money. Just like at least 25 other people were stopped that night. When I came back through 2 hours later alone, they had 3 people pulled over. I am simply going to hold them accountable the same way they did me. According to the "letter of the law". The letter of the law designates that non-postage paid items shall not be placed in USPS mailboxes. Or you guys think it's OK to steal and defraud U. S. postal service employees of their money??? You guys think it's OK for a person to violate the privacy of very sensitive information that might be in your mailbox? You simpletons ought to move to a more tyrannical nation if you feel that way. One that shares your thought process.

Ah, you're one of those folks.

free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21

And I wasn't going from a faster zone into a slower. It was the opposite. And if the officer wasn't coherent and cognizant enough to return my license and registration, how could he possibly be coherent and cognizant enough to operate speeding equipment. Right. Some people seem to think that LEO's and the like are above the Law or somehow better then the common man. This type of thought process breeds tyranny.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21

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I agree with free9man that you are one of the lunatic fringe that believes things like "right to travel" or that the income tax is voluntary and you don't have to pay it.

Nobody "trapped" you.

You intentionally broke the law by doing 42 in a 25 and got caught.

Why the police were there is irrelevant.

Here are your options:

Go ahead and bash me and continue your trollness.

Or, just go away.

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Or you guys think it's OK to steal and defraud U. S. postal service employees of their money???

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so report it. Don't be surprised if absolutely nothing happens. You won't profit from it nor will it affect the outcome of
your justly deserved speeding ticket.

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You guys think it's OK for a person to violate the privacy of very sensitive information that might be in your mailbox?

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first, nothing was compromised. Second, almost all of the info on those documents is available to the general public. That that isn't is easily obtained with a very simple activity
of reading.

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You simpletons ought to move to a more tyrannical nation if you feel that way. One that shares your thought process.

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or you could move to a country where the residents share your mentality given you are obviously in the minority in this one.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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free9man - no need to act like a self-righteous hypocrite - it's not like we haven't all broken laws and sinned against God - Psalm 94:20-21

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Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

then follow your biblical heart and give Caesar his money. Pay the ticket






Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

1 Peter 2:13-17


Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Romans 13:2

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Quoting wisdom_525

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I posted the USPS law in question below:

3.1.3 Use for Mail
Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail. [D041.1.3]

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What you quoted from is the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), which is not law. It instead explains the USPS position on the application of the federal statute which covers this, 18 U.S.C. § 1725. You may complain about this to the USPS Postal Inspection Service if you wish. That is the law enforcement agency that investigates postal crimes. But I can tell you right now that it’s pretty much a certainty that no federal prosecutor will prosecute a cop for a one-time drop of a license and registration in a person’s mailbox.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Does anyone have any information as to how to go about fighting my speeding ticket by going down the road of letting the police department know that they violated USPS law by putting the items in my mailbox?

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That argument will go nowhere. The officer’s alleged violation of the law regarding placing items in mail receptacles does not in any way absolve you of your alleged violation of the traffic law. Nor was it a violation of any of your rights. If you contest the ticket, all the court wants to hear is evidence that is relevant to the issue of whether or not you were speeding. So if you want to have any shot at beating the ticket, that is where you need to focus your attention. Forget the postal issue — the judge in your traffic case won’t care about it and you may even manage to annoy the judge by arguing it, which will not work to your advantage.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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The detail was specifically designed to bring money into government coffers. It was not based on the "spirit of the law" - to keep people and property safe on the road. It was based on the "letter of the law".

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Yet, had you not been doing 42 in a 25 zone you would not have been cited. This is hardly a case of "Let's make a two block area 25 MPH in the middle of a 45 MPH zone." Not "entrapment in the least.

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I am simply going to hold them accountable the same way they did me. According to the "letter of the law". The letter of the law designates that non-postage paid items shall not be placed in USPS mailboxes. Or you guys think it's OK to steal and defraud U. S. postal service employees of their money??? You guys think it's OK for a person to violate the privacy of very sensitive information that might be in your mailbox? You simpletons ought to move to a more tyrannical nation if you feel that way. One that shares your thought process.

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Ok, go ahead and call the USPS. Do NOT be surprised when they do not act on this. They won't. You can also complain to the officer's agency if you wish. It is likely that, at most, the officer will be given a verbal reprimand over the incident. In the future, they mat send the documents to your DMV, or, they may book it into property and you will be notified by mail that the agency has the items. You can then make an appointment to retrieve them.

So you are familiar with income tax law then? Interesting. Could you please explain to me how you know I was "intentionally" doing 42 in a 25?

Matthew 22:21 is not a treatise on paying your taxes. Read it in context. There was no sincerity in their question. The Word tells us the reason they asked him was to trap him. Then it says, "But Jesus, knowing their
hypocrisy, answered thus." So, the reason he answered the question that way was all based on the intent and motivations for their questions in the first place.

That's right, "Let EVERY SOUL be subject to the higher powers." as the KJV puts it in 1st Peter 2:13-17. EVERY SOUL. It also says that those powers are not a "terror to good works, but to evil." Well we know that human governments are some of the greatest "terrors to good works" ever created. So what makes you know that they are speaking of "human governments" for sure?

Yes, be subject to every human institution. And the U. S. Gov't institution is ruled "by the people". A little different here. Psalm 94:20 BTW, chief of police who originally did me wrong is now on unpaid suspension. That's a different story. Wonder what else he did wrong????

You need to keep mans law and Gods law seperate. You keep trying to bring Gods law into your situation and it simply does not apply.

How does anybody know you were intentionally going 42 in a 25; because you said you were going 42 in a 25 so unless your car had a mind of its own and you couldn't control it, you were intentionally going 42 mph while in a 25 mph zone.

So, do you have a self driving car that you couldn't override the speed it was driving? If not, then your speed was intentional.

jk - Do you understand this is about them getting your money? It's not like they're telling me I have to go and take a safe driving course now to protect people. They did it to take money. Not something else. Money. Why? Because they need money! And that's one way they get it. They could give a shit about anybody's safety. I guarantee you they wouldn't be out there perpetrating that if they weren't getting money from people. Government produces nothing. They can only pay for things by taking money from the private sector and people. I wasn't driving unsafely for the area. I wasn't driving wrecklessly nor carelessly in any way. I didn't damage anyone's person nor their property, so there's nothing to "compensate" anyone for. What is it exactly that I am "paying for"? You need to ask yourself that question. In fact, frankly, I may not have been traveling 42 until I entered the 35 zone. I wish the SOB's were out on the other highway the other day when a guy nearly ran me over when coming up to a stoplight where he was going twice as fast as any other car. But NO. **** no! They aren't out there in the places that are really unsafe, protecting peoples' safety. They were in a zone where no one's going to get hurt, but because it's a zone where they can take advantage of so many people at once, they did so. Needed to meet a quota. City in this area is known for harassing people. It was about them getting money. Nothing else. And that's what pisses me off is because you're trying to defend these pricks.

It's about penalizing you so you will slow down and comply with the traffic laws. I would have to guess that area is known for people ignoring the speed limit so occasionally the police will put on a big show and ticket a bunch of idiots that won't obey the speed limit. As word gets around that if people speed in that area they are likely to get a ticket, people start following the law and slowing down.

its quite funny that you bitch about some other driver you saw that was driving twice the speed limit and how you want the police to ticket him but when you are ticketed for doing almost the exact same thing, the police are the bad guys and only trying to make money. You have officially become a hypocrit.

Ain't penalizing me. Nope. Ah ah. God's given me free money so many times in my life, doesn't matter to me. $19,000 here. $4000.00 there. A free 11 year old car here the other week with only 15,000 miles on it. Bring it on. They can keep more of their false god with their little pyramid on the back. It's all good. ; ) If they wanted to put on a big show. They would have done it at rush hour. But no, they started around 9 pm on Tuesday night before T-giving to keep it all hush hush.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Ain't penalizing me. Nope. Ah ah. God's given me free money so many times in my life, doesn't matter to me. $19,000 here. $4000.00 there. A free 11 year old car here the other week with only 15,000 miles on it. Bring it on. They can keep more of their false god with their little pyramid on the back. It's all good. ; ) If they wanted to put on a big show. They would have done it at rush hour. But no, they started around 9 pm on Tuesday night before T-giving to keep it all hush hush.

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then give them all of your money if you don't care but that is what a fine is; a penalty for violating the law.

And if you don't care about the money, why are you here whining about what happens? Again, quite hypocritical.

Good point. I'm whining because it's very unjust and I feel great disdain for unjust people. I am a hypocrite. We are all hypocrites. The important thing I suppose is that a person can realize it and admit it to himself.

I also want to say here that I have been the victim before of the police attacking me for no good reason. Corroborating each others' lies. And then using that to extort money out of me. They threw 4 bogus charges on me. They wanted to give me a harder penalty than I got. But when they realized I wasn't going to go for it because I knew I was innocent. They quickly dropped it to 1 lesser charge and asked me to plead guilty to that so they could get some money out of me. I didn't feel like fighting it because I had other things going on in my life and just wanted to get it over with. But see that's what they do. They try to scare you by putting all these false charges on you. And then when they drop it to one charge, you feel like they did you a favor. You feel like you just want to take the path of least resistance and get it over with. It's reverse psychology. When something like that happens to you, it changes your perception of the police in general. You realize they're not really your friends. They're not really there to protect you and help you necessarily. By the way, the chief of police in the borough where I live that led that attack (3 officers in total) is now suspended without pay. So I guess he is indeed a bad seed after all. It's not related to the incident that happened with me. But yeah, again, when something like that happens to you, it changes your perception. And it's really unfortunate because you have a tendency to develop a prejudice against all LEO's when something like that happens. I mean 3 of them, all coming against me, lying about me. And I took one of them aside at the magistrate office and spoke with him. You could tell, he knew what he was doing was wrong. And he wasn't interested in justice or anything to do with doing the right thing. No mercy. No compassion. And you know, I didn't do anything wrong. And there was still no mercy, nor compassion. Like I said, that changes things. http://www.ydr.com/story/news/local/...hief/93324016/

However unfair you think the speed enforcement operations of the cops was the night you got tagged for speeding, you’ve given no facts to suggest that in doing so they violated any law or regulation. If they didn’t violate any law or regulation in doing it, then complaining about that to the judge won’t do you any good. That then becomes a political issue. You can complain about how speed enforcement is done to the chief of police and/or your township or borough elected representatives.

If you want to challenge the ticket, you need to focus on what the court will focus on: evidence relevant to the issue of whether you were actually speeding or not. Again, the issue of the officer putting your license and registration in the mailbox rather than mailing it to you (which arguably was actually a nice thing for the cop to take his time to do rather than having you drive more days without them while they found their way to you in the mail) is irrelevant to the traffic ticket hearing. So the bottom line here is that unless you have a good defense to the traffic ticket, you will likely lose if you challenge the ticket. And given how Pennsylvania’s rules are for traffic tickets, if you challenge the ticket and lose, you get stuck paying additional court costs you would not have had to pay if you simply paid the fine right way and conceded the ticket. I don't like that approach (and I used to live in PA so I am well familiar with it) but the law is what it is on that. I understand your anger at corruption. PA generally, and in particular certain pockets of the state, have a history of corruption which has earned the state a bad reputation where that is concerned. Not as bad, perhaps, as the reputation of some parts New Jersey, Illinois, or Louisiana, but bad nonetheless. But even in that environment, you have to pick your battles and focus on those that you have a chance to win. Trying to use your beefs with other things they have done won’t get you anywhere with the traffic ticket and the traffic ticket hearing is not a worthwhile forum for those complaints. It just doesn’t get you anywhere.

Hear! Hear! Well spoken. I suppose I'll simply pay the ticket. Interesting the synchronicities I continue to see. Your post at 01:01 as a for instance. Thank you, best to you and God be with you.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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jk - Do you understand this is about them getting your money?

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The motivation - even if it COULD be proven - is not a defense. Sorry.

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It's not like they're telling me I have to go and take a safe driving course now to protect people. They did it to take money. Not something else. Money. Why? Because they need money!

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Maybe. Though, citations do have an impact on traffic collisions. So, there is a purpose in addition to revenue ... provided PA provides significant revenue for traffic violations.

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City in this area is known for harassing people. It was about them getting money. Nothing else. And that's what pisses me off is because you're trying to defend these pricks.

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No one is defending any action that might be designed solely to generate revenue. However, what you are not grasping is that the city's motivation is NOT A DEFENSE to speeding.

This is a fascinating discussion! I've not seen bible quotes thrown around like that since I stopped reading the news a few weeks ago in an effort to get a break from sanctimonious relativists like yourself, Wisdom (ironic).

You were cited for exceeding the speed limit, by a significant amount, but you you don't blink an eye about that. You claim that you have no issue paying the ticket as money comes "free" to you from Heaven above. Well, it's nice for you and your rank hypocrisy is leaking through the screen.

You were speeding and you were caught. Your insistence that it "wasn't in the spirit of the law" is complete bollocks. The "spirit" of the law isn't going to get you anywhere, even through spirits clearly infest your head, it's the letter of the law that is enforceable and you broke it. Your assertion that it was entrapment is also without merit.

You claim that that governments don't produce anything. Not true! You're driving on roads that the government produced and want to employ a court system that is produced by the government. You may complain that these are actually paid for by monies divested from you by that tyrannical government but taxes are a part of ANY society, in one form or another, as those services that you enjoy, but don't really see, have to come from somewhere and, at the moment, not being provided by a for profit corporation, they are less expensive that they could be. This is as opposed to the days when fire companies were private and you paid for a subscription to their services and would, even then, let your house burn down as they squabbled with another company. At least the gov't doesn't tack on a 40% or 60% margin to drive on the roads.

Now, I feel constitutional argument coming on from you...stop it! Now!

You can complain to the USPS. If the postal inspector fails to follow up on your complaint, don't bitch.

Quite a pathetic situation we're in. No rule of law anymore when people can pick and choose according to their whims which ones they want to adjudicate and which ones not. And where the same laws don't apply to the "oligarchs" in the United States that apply to the common man. Russia is looking like a better place to live all the time as the United States continues to descend into a banana republic. Only been there 3 times now, might as well stay a little longer next go around.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Quite a pathetic situation we're in. No rule of law anymore when people can pick and choose according to their whims which ones they want to adjudicate and which ones not.

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Which what? WHich laws? If you are referring to the discretion that has ALWAYS been present in the enforcement and prosecution of the law, then, yeah. The state cannot possibly afford to pursue and prosecute EVERY offense that comes to the attention of law enforcement. There are LIMITED RESOURCES available, so the police and prosecutors have to decide what they want to investigate and pursue to trial. It has been that way loooooong before I began a career as a peace officer 25+ years ago.

You were caught speeding. Deal with it! It's not the end of the world, it's not a great conspiracy, and it's certainly not a violation of your civil rights. The police set up a detail to catch speeders and you got caught. It's that simple.

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Russia is looking like a better place to live all the time as the United States continues to descend into a banana republic. Only been there 3 times now, might as well stay a little longer next go around.

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See ya! Hope you like their justice system. Of course, freedom of speech?? Not so much ... But, to each his own.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Russia is looking like a better place to live all the time as the United States continues to descend into a banana republic. Only been there 3 times now, might as well stay a little longer next go around.

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My guess is that you have had little to no experience with the Russian legal system. If you move there, I hope you never face any criminal prosecution in that country. If you do, you’ll be in for quite a shock — defendants have far fewer rights against the state there than here. And Russia is no better when it comes to treating the “oligarchs” better. If those oligarchs toe the Putin line, they can get away with a lot, even murder, and the state won’t care. If they oppose Putin, however, they may find themselves jailed on trumped up tax evasion or other charges. Democracy means little in today’s Russia. It effectively has a new Czar, Putin, and the law runs according what the new Czar wants. Russians do not complain of this much because historically they like strong-man leader kinds of governments, despite the resulting restrictions on freedoms. But to most Americans it would be very strange indeed.

And cold. Much of Russia is quite cold. A lot of Americans wouldn’t like that either. :D

The fact that somehow the police officer is allowed to have a free pass on breaking the law as far as placing my drivers license and registration in my mailbox after he forgot to give it back to me. 1. It's a LOCKED mailbox in the vestibule as I own a multi-unit apartment house. So how'd he get it in there unless someone gave him a universal key or he picked the lock? 2. It's a violation of privacy. 3. It's a violation of the law on 2 counts (1 being that he is not a postal employee and 2 being that the items were placed in the mailbox without postage paid). So it's okay for me to be crucified in a speedtrap where I wasn't driving overly fast nor wrecklessly. But it's not okay for him to be held to the same standard of breaking the law himself??????

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Quoting wisdom_525

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The fact that somehow the police officer is allowed to have a free pass on breaking the law as far as placing my drivers license and registration in my mailbox after he forgot to give it back to me. 1. It's a LOCKED mailbox in the vestibule as I own a multi-unit apartment house. So how'd he get it in there unless someone gave him a universal key or he picked the lock? 2. It's a violation of privacy. 3. It's a violation of the law on 2 counts (1 being that he is not a postal employee and 2 being that the items were placed in the mailbox without postage paid). So it's okay for me to be crucified in a speedtrap where I wasn't driving overly fast nor wrecklessly. But it's not okay for him to be held to the same standard of breaking the law himself??????

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It sucks, but that is life. Get over it and move on...

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Quoting wisdom_525

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But it's not okay for him to be held to the same standard of breaking the law himself??????

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In order to prosecute for that violation, the federal prosecutor has to prove to the jury that the purpose of placing the material in the box was to avoid the cost of postage. Where it is a single event of putting an item in a box without postage that is extremely hard to do as it is hard to successfully argue that a person is seriously going to spend more in gas and time to personally drop an item in the box just to save 47 cents. It makes no sense for the feds to spend all the time and money that federal court prosecution involves on a case that a jury is likely to reject. It doesn’t have anything to do with him being cop. It has to do with the particular facts of the matter. As a result, a federal prosecutor will not typically pursue a case for a single drop in a mail box. That is a good use of prosecutorial discretion. It’s the kind of decision we want them to make. What that law is there to protect against, and what will get the government motivated to pursue it, is a circumstance where someone is clearly doing an end around the post office, e.g. hiring someone to go door to door to place advertising material in every mailbox in town.

Personally, while I understand you are upset by the ticket and wish to attribute the worst motives to the cop as a result, from my perspective I doubt very much he was thinking “I’m going to drop the license and registration in the box to save myself 47 cents and I’m going to deliberately violate federal law in the process.” Rather, I think it is more likely that he saw doing that as helpful to you to get it back faster. Otherwise, what is the point of taking his time to go out of the way to do it?

And this is what you get for trying to do a guy a solid.

He could've held onto it and had you come to the station for it. As to how it got in the box; you can't prove that he did it, only that it got there. Perhaps he knew the mail carrier, perhaps he staked it out and waited (!!!)

Too bad for you that you're not the prosecutor. You'd spend so much time/money going after the minor stuff that you'd run out of money for when the big stuff happens. Wait! If you're the prosecutor money will come from the heavens!

Take a fist full of valium (with a legal prescription, of course) and chill out. Pay the ticket or contest it. Either way you're likely to pay.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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In order to prosecute for that violation, the federal prosecutor has to prove to the jury that the purpose of placing the material in the box was to avoid the cost of postage. Where it is a single event of putting an item in a box without postage that is extremely hard to do as it is hard to successfully argue that a person is seriously going to spend more in gas and time to personally drop an item in the box just to save 47 cents. It makes no sense for the feds to spend all the time and money that federal court prosecution involves on a case that a jury is likely to reject. It doesn’t have anything to do with him being cop. It has to do with the particular facts of the matter. As a result, a federal prosecutor will not typically pursue a case for a single drop in a mail box. That is a good use of prosecutorial discretion. It’s the kind of decision we want them to make. What that law is there to protect against, and what will get the government motivated to pursue it, is a circumstance where someone is clearly doing an end around the post office, e.g. hiring someone to go door to door to place advertising material in every mailbox in town.

Personally, while I understand you are upset by the ticket and wish to attribute the worst motives to the cop as a result, from my perspective I doubt very much he was thinking “I’m going to drop the license and registration in the box to save myself 47 cents and I’m going to deliberately violate federal law in the process.” Rather, I think it is more likely that he saw doing that as helpful to you to get it back faster. Otherwise, what is the point of taking his time to go out of the way to do it?

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The reason why you aren't allowed to place things in a mailbox is, if I were to place something in his mailbox, you were to place something in the box and a few other people did too, then when the letter carrier came to deliver the mail, the box would be full and the mail would go undelivered. So the state would not have to prove that the officer placed the reg there to ovoid postage.

But OP would have to prove that the officer did indeed place the reg in his mailbox as the reg could have been dropped on the ground at the scene and a person walking by picked up the reg and placed it in his mailbox being a nice person.

You are right that I have no experience with the Russian legal system. My mother in law lives way down south in a place called Yeysk. It's kind of near Sochi where the olympics were held, not nearly as cold down there, but still gets so. Just tired of dumb shit. Saw two cops in another part of town today. They just sit in this parking lot all day waiting for people to make a left turn where they're not supposed to. ****ing worthless. We have people dying of heroin in this town weekly. And they're wasting police resources on minor traffic infractions to collect money.

What does people od'ing on heroin have to do with anything? The cops can be the most aggressive in the country and you will still have heroin od's.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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You are right that I have no experience with the Russian legal system. My mother in law lives way down south in a place called Yeysk. It's kind of near Sochi where the olympics were held, not nearly as cold down there, but still gets so. Just tired of dumb shit. Saw two cops in another part of town today. They just sit in this parking lot all day waiting for people to make a left turn where they're not supposed to. ****ing worthless. We have people dying of heroin in this town weekly. And they're wasting police resources on minor traffic infractions to collect money.

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You have patrol officers that patrol for suspicious people/things. And you have vice that handles narcotics and related things.

Here is the point: We are paying the police. They work for us. They have limited resources. Instead of using their resources in the right places, like fighting against heroin distribution for instance, they are using them to harass the common man so they can collect money. I just thought I'd add that after 3 officers attacked me in 2012 unjustly led by their chief, I was "led" to this instruction. Psalm 94:20 Can unjust leaders claim that God is on their side—leaders whose decrees permit injustice? Moving down to verse 23 God will turn the sins of evil people back on them. That same chief of police was put on leave without pay. And I just learned he was released from his contract on 11/22. Other words, he got fired. What goes around comes around. Just like I was promised in the above mentioned Psalm.

And even so, you still have a speeding ticket to deal with. It's funny how that works out.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Here is the point: We are paying the police. They work for us. They have limited resources. Instead of using their resources in the right places, like fighting against heroin distribution for instance, they are using them to harass the common man so they can collect money. I just thought I'd add that after 3 officers attacked me in 2012 unjustly led by their chief, I was "led" to this instruction. Psalm 94:20 Can unjust leaders claim that God is on their side—leaders whose decrees permit injustice? Moving down to verse 23 God will turn the sins of evil people back on them. That same chief of police was put on leave without pay. And I just learned he was released from his contract on 11/22. Other words, he got fired. What goes around comes around. Just like I was promised in the above mentioned Psalm.

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I guess you don't know how a police department works. There are many departments within a police department.

You have patrol. They look for suspicious activity and go to specific calls.

You have traffic. They look for violators of traffic infractions.

You have Vice, They look for narcotics.

You have warrant squad. They look for people with warrants.

You have a bomb squad. They go to calls that are bomb related.

You have puplic relations. They tend to walk the beat and communicate with shop owners and the public.

There are so many departments, so the cops you seen sitting waiting for someone with a car to make the wrong move are just doing there job.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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You are right that I have no experience with the Russian legal system. My mother in law lives way down south in a place called Yeysk. It's kind of near Sochi where the olympics were held, not nearly as cold down there, but still gets so. Just tired of dumb shit. Saw two cops in another part of town today. They just sit in this parking lot all day waiting for people to make a left turn where they're not supposed to. ****ing worthless. We have people dying of heroin in this town weekly. And they're wasting police resources on minor traffic infractions to collect money.

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Great! Show the cops where people are about to OD on heroin and I'm sure they'll be there.

However, in the REAL world, people tend to shot up heroin when the police are not watching. So, even with tickets, they still have plenty of time to respond to an OD.

There will always be other offenses or tragedies. That does not mean the police should not also perform aspects of their jobs that have to do with lesser offenses. And it may come as a surprise to you, the largest type of complaint most agencies get has to do with traffic matters. Not drug ODs or loud noise or murder, but traffic. So, like it or not, the police are going to be enforcing the traffic regulations where they can.

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Here is the point: We are paying the police. They work for us. They have limited resources. Instead of using their resources in the right places, like fighting against heroin distribution for instance, they are using them to harass the common man so they can collect money.

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Ah, if only it were that easy! If ONLY they could take officers out of patrol and shut down the use of illicit drugs. Sadly, the nature of drug sales and use is not something that can be effectively controlled by saturation patrols. I suspect that they are expending what resources they can on the drug problem. But, the police cannot simply go about kicking in doors and searching every shady person they see and look for dope. It just doesn't work that way. Not even remotely. That darned Constitution keeps getting in the way!

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Quoting cdwjava

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Great! Show the cops where people are about to OD on heroin and I'm sure they'll be there.

However, in the REAL world, people tend to shot up heroin when the police are not watching. So, even with tickets, they still have plenty of time to respond to an OD.

There will always be other offenses or tragedies. That does not mean the police should not also perform aspects of their jobs that have to do with lesser offenses. And it may come as a surprise to you, the largest type of complaint most agencies get has to do with traffic matters. Not drug ODs or loud noise or murder, but traffic. So, like it or not, the police are going to be enforcing the traffic regulations where they can.


Ah, if only it were that easy! If ONLY they could take officers out of patrol and shut down the use of illicit drugs. Sadly, the nature of drug sales and use is not something that can be effectively controlled by saturation patrols. I suspect that they are expending what resources they can on the drug problem. But, the police cannot simply go about kicking in doors and searching every shady person they see and look for dope. It just doesn't work that way. Not even remotely. That darned Constitution keeps getting in the way!

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Yeah, if it weren't for that damn Constitution, the cops would shoot all of us... But that is another thread... :friendly_wink:

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Quoting wisdom_525

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Here is the point: We are paying the police. They work for us. They have limited resources. Instead of using their resources in the right places, like fighting against heroin distribution for instance, they are using them to harass the common man so they can collect money. I just thought I'd add that after 3 officers attacked me in 2012 unjustly led by their chief, I was "led" to this instruction. Psalm 94:20 Can unjust leaders claim that God is on their side—leaders whose decrees permit injustice? Moving down to verse 23 God will turn the sins of evil people back on them. That same chief of police was put on leave without pay. And I just learned he was released from his contract on 11/22. Other words, he got fired. What goes around comes around. Just like I was promised in the above mentioned Psalm.

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You would do well to heed your own words, son.