Accused of Wrongly Taking Items from a School After Resigning

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Georgia

Hello,

I recently resigned from my job as a Pre-Kindergarten teacher. Last Saturday I went into the building to remove all the items that were mine including the pictures I took of the children. I figured since I took those pictures at my expense then they are mine. I was given the permission from the supervisor that I could enter the building on the weekend because the facility was open with children in it. I did not tell the supervisor that I will be removing all my things, but I did tell her that I will be picking up the can goods that the students collected for a can drive for the needy to give to a local food bank. 2 days later I turned in my letter of resignation and all other paper work. I thought that maybe I was going to move on with my life until the director of the facility E-mailed me stating that I took items from the classroom. I told her I took all the items that were mine. She then told me that the pictures of the children and the can goods weren't mine why did I take them. I told her those pictures were taken out of my expense so they are mine and the can goods weren't hers nor mine, but the students. I told her that the can goods will be given to the local shelter and I will E-mail you the donation slip. That is when I received an email stating that she will withhold my payroll if I do not meet with her. I found that to be crazy because withholding an employee check for any reason is against the law in ALL 50 states. When I told her that, she said that she can not release the payroll because I went into her building without permission and removed items without her permission.

I decided to go to the meeting and bring in a witness being that I felt like she was going into legal matters. I am not sure why I had to meet with her because I did what I had to do and resigned. I think she just wanted to meet with me because she felt bad that I did not tell her I was removing all my items from the classroom and that now she will have to start paying for items out of pocket to replace the items the I spent money on to replace in the classroom. In the meeting she told me that I was practicing theft by taken because although the building was open, that particular part of the building was closed due to the fact that the grade I teach is not open on weekends. How can that be possible when the building was open, I was given permission by the supervisor, and at the time I was still an employee so I was allowed to be anywhere on the grounds when I took my things down? She then said that she would call an attorney on my witness for showing up. How would all this become a case?

I am not sure was she speaking about legal matters she has any knowledge of or will this actually happen.

I emailed the donation slip from the shelter and told her I do not want any other communication with her.

My dad is a retired law enforcer and he says that it is not a case.

Is this case? I need to know if I should get an attorney?

I agree with your dad and I would wait to see what happens. Calling an attorney about your witness sounds meaningless. If she wanted to say that the witness was trespassing she should have told that person to leave and then called the police.

It depends on the prosecutor. Your father cannot predict what will happen.

Here's what you do, keep all documentation including the supervisor's name who gave you the permission.

IF you get contacted by the police politely decline to speak with them unless you have an attorney present. THEN you can go out and retain legal counsel.

The photos may not be your property even if you took them at your own expense. If they were for some sort of school-related purpose then the photos belong to the school. Paying for them yourself does not make them your property. (And in case you ask, it's perfectly legal for employers to require employees to pay for some work-related items out of their own pockets. And in Georgia, employers are not legally required to reimburse employees for said out-of-pocket expenses.)

The canned (are you sure you were a teacher?) goods were never yours, they belonged to the school and/or the students. Whether they belonged to the school or the students, they were never yours.

So you definitely stole items out of the classroom. Definitely the canned goods and possibly also the photos. And just because you donated the canned goods doesn't mean law enforcement won't press theft charges against you. They can, and they might.

Your behaviour in all this is going to dog your career for decades.

withholding an employee check for any reason is against the law in ALL 50 states.

This is not true as stated. There is, in fact, one state (although it is not Georgia) where the law expressly gives the employer the right to withhold the final check until the employee has returned everything belonging to the employer. Other states, and Georgia IS one of these, have no laws regarding the timing of final checks.

I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the can goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the canned goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

the photos was also not school property.

I am elgible to be reimbursed for training that I went to. Per the state that I work for, require that employers fund teachers for all training. II was given one paycheck to a training, and it bounced twice. I am also to be reimbursed for materials I brought because it states this in the employee handbook

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Quoting RechaeT

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I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the can goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the canned goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

the photos was also not school property.

I was to be reimbursed for training that I went to. Per the state that I work for, require that employers fund teachers for all training. II was given one paycheck to a training, and it bounced twice. I am also to be reimbursed for materials I brought because it states this in the employee handbook

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Are you sure you were a teacher? Really?

Of course you were responsible for taking the canned goods to a food bank - while you were employed by the school. As soon as you quit, all work-related responsibilities (including ferrying stuff around to food banks) ended.

As to whether or not the photos were school property - why did you take photos of the children?

Who said anything about training cost reimbursement? How did that suddenly come into play in this thread?

Regarding what the employee handbook says, 99% of employers are not legally bound by the verbiage in their employee handbooks. If you believe that your former employer belongs to that 1% of employers that are bound by their employee handbooks, then you need to take said handbook to be reviewed thoroughly by an attorney who specializes in contract law.

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Quoting eerelations

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Are you sure you were a teacher? Really?

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If she is I hope she doesn't teach spelling and grammar.

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Quoting Highwayman

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If she is I hope she doesn't teach spelling and grammar.

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Even if she doesn't, shouldn't teachers be expected to possess at least some basic knowledge of spelling and grammar?

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Quoting RechaeT

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I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the can goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

I told them during my employment that I will be responsible for taking the canned goods to the food bank and they all agreed upon it.

the photos was also not school property.

I am elgible to be reimbursed for training that I went to. Per the state that I work for, require that employers fund teachers for all training. II was given one paycheck to a training, and it bounced twice. I am also to be reimbursed for materials I brought because it states this in the employee handbook

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I hope you weren't an English teacher...

Why do you want photos of the kids anyway? At my daughter's daycare they take pictures of all the kids for the newsletters or to put up on the wall. That doesn't give any individual worker the right to keep them. I would be weirded out if my kid's teacher wanted to keep pictures of my daughter and her classmates. A class photo with you in it is different.

Wait until there's actually a legal issue to deal with. Don't talk to the police.

I took them because during my employment she complained so much about them. Should I give them to the parents?. That is what I had in first mind to do

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Quoting RechaeT

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I took them because during my employment she complained so much about them. Should I give them to the parents?. That is what I had in first mind to do

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I don't understand - you took photos of the kids because the director of the school complained so much about the kids? The photos? Or what? You need to explain this before we can advise on whether or not giving the photos to the parents is the legal thing to do.

For one, she complained about them being up and when I was removing everything I brought, I decided it would be best to remove the photos I took so that she does not have a reason to complain about them. I seriously do not want the pictures. I contacted 1 parent that I have pictures on my hard drive that I never posted in the classroom and would like for her to have them because I am not employed there anymore and have any reason to keep them.

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Quoting RechaeT

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For one, she complained about them being up and when I was removing everything I brought, I decided it would be best to remove the photos I took so that she does not have a reason to complain about them. I seriously do not want the pictures. I contacted 1 parent that I have pictures on my hard drive that I never posted in the classroom and would like for her to have them because I am not employed there anymore and have any reason to keep them.

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How would the director's complaint about the kids "being up" (whatever that means) cause you to take photos of the kids? And why would she complain about the photos if you left them behind? And why would you even care?

And contacting parents and telling them you have photos of their kids on your computer is just plain weird...this is going to get you into a whole lot of trouble much worse than the theft charges you may be facing. Plan on never teaching again, for one thing.

I do not have a theft charge. She claimed she could charge me for theft and the pictures are in my hard drive because as a teacher we are told to use pictures for the classroom and also the student's online portfolios that track their growth in certain subject areas.

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Quoting RechaeT

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I do not have a theft charge. She claimed she could charge me for theft and the pictures are in my hard drive because as a teacher we are told to use pictures for the classroom and also the student's online portfolios that track their growth in certain subject areas.

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I never said you did have a theft charge. I said "you may be facing" theft charges. Completely different.

So the photos were taken as part of your job - ergo the photos belong to the school. Now that we've established that, please know that according to the law, you have committed theft. So that's two counts of theft you may be facing - one for the canned goods and one for the photos. If you want to avoid being charged with theft, you should send the canned goods receipt and the photos to the school asap.

And don't call any more parents! You've already creeped out one set, you might be facing serious trouble for this. Creep out any more parents and your life won't ever look the same again.

I emailed her the donation slip for the canned goods yesterday, and the pictures I'll just mail those to her. I do not want to step foot in that place.

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Quoting eerelations

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So the photos were taken as part of your job - ergo the photos belong to the school. Now that we've established that, please know that according to the law, you have committed theft.

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Not so fast.

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

Similarly, the OP may have been told to take photos of the kids and to use those photos as her "teacher" supplies.

If the school does not reimburse me for my notebooks, folders, and pencils, then the school does not own my supplies. If the school does not reimburse the OP for the photos, then the school does not own the photos. The teacher that replaces the OP, can then take new photos at that new teacher's expense.

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And don't call any more parents! You've already creeped out one set, you might be facing serious trouble for this. Creep out any more parents and your life won't ever look the same again.

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Why would having non-sexual photos of kids be creepy? Ever hear of school yearbooks? Or school newspapers?

Exactly what I thought! I love this logic. It makes sense. It sounds like you were or are a teacher!

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Quoting TechWorker

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Not so fast.

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

Similarly, the OP may have been told to take photos of the kids and to use those photos as her "teacher" supplies.

If the school does not reimburse me for my notebooks, folders, and pencils, then the school does not own my supplies. If the school does not reimburse the OP for the photos, then the school does not own the photos. The teacher that replaces the OP, can then take new photos at that new teacher's expense.




Why would having non-sexual photos of kids be creepy? Ever hear of school yearbooks? Or school newspapers?

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Oh please. At least try to brush up a bit on employment law before you start battling with experts with decades of training and work experience in this area.

OP took photos of the kids at the behest of the school. Ergo, the school owns said photos. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the school reimbursed her for the photos. Period. (And it has even less to do with students buying their own school supplies - why did you even bother typing that? It's totally irrelevant to this issue.)

And really, school newspapers and school yearbooks are not in any way the same as a no-longer-employed-there teacher taking home photos of kids that belonged to the school (the photos, not the kids). I would certainly be more than a little creeped out if I discovered that a no-longer-employed-there teacher at my child's school had stolen my child's photo from the school and taken it home with her! (And I would be astonished if she phoned me to tell me about it! What kind of total unfamiliarity with good judgement and common sense is she exhibiting with this phone call?)

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Quoting RechaeT

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Exactly what I thought! I love this logic. It makes sense. It sounds like you were or are a teacher!

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Just as an FYI, TechWorker is not a teacher and he has no knowledge whatsoever of employment law (or pretty much any other law, I suspect). He has come very close to being banned from this site on several occasions for providing wrong information and bad advice. Just so's you know.

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

But the OP is not a student, she is an employee, and the rules are different. You do not know employment law and you are dead wrong about what the law says in this instance.

I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

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Just as an FYI, TechWorker is not a teacher and he has no knowledge whatsoever of employment law (or pretty much any other law, I suspect).

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Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.

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Quoting RechaeT

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Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

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If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

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Quoting RechaeT

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I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

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There is no law to find. Everything you do, make or create at your employer's request belongs to your employer. If you don't believe me or cbg, then, well, you are choosing to disbelieve two people who have what? 60 or 70 years' training and work experience in employment law between them. Not a smart choice.

And of course we weren't talking about HOME PHOTOS (sic). We never were! Why you're bringing up this irrelevancy, I don't know.

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Quoting TechWorker

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Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.



If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

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so "defeating" A former employer in court for some unlentioned reason and you're Perry Frickin' Mason? Your statement in itself is meaningless.

As to ownership of the pictures; we don't know enough to say one way or another for certain and I doubt we will ever be given enough information to make the determination. Unless there was a written contract between the school and the op
where op was hired to take the pictures and the work was agreed
to be a "work for hire", yes, there is a good possibility op may own the pictures. Of course we don't know any discussion between op and school concerning the pictures. Maybe it was agreed at the time they were taken they became property of
the school. Regardless, it's really kind of foolish to argue about op keeping photographs she doesn't even want if returning them would appease the school administrator.

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Quoting TechWorker

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Just so you know, I once defeated a former employer in court. So, yes, I do know about employment law.



If you took the photos with your own camera, then you own the photos. However, if there was some kind of contract between you and the school, which said that any photos you took for the school would belong to the school, then the school would own the photos. So, was there some kind of photo-related contract between you and the school?

We are talking about copyright laws and contract laws.

Also, if you took the photos with your own camera, why didn't you save copies of the photos to your home computer when you took the photos?

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So one successful lawsuit against an employer = 30 years' training and experience in employment law? OK, but I'm still ahead - I have 30 years' experience in this and I won a lawsuit against a former employer!

Finally, no this is so not about copyright and contract laws, we are talking about employment law. You are really out of line feeding OP all this baloney.

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Quoting jk

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so "defeating" A former employer in court for some unlentioned reason and you're Perry Frickin' Mason? Your statement in itself is meaningless.

As to ownership of the pictures; we don't know enough to say one way or another for certain and I doubt we will ever be given enough information to make the determination. Unless there was a written contract between the school and the op
where op was hired to take the pictures and the work was agreed
to be a "work for hire", yes, there is a good possibility op may own the pictures. Of course we don't know any discussion between op and school concerning the pictures. Maybe it was agreed at the time they were taken they became property of
the school. Regardless, it's really kind of foolish to argue about op keeping photographs she doesn't even want if returning them would appease the school administrator.

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OP believes the photos would belong to the school if the school reimbursed her (not paid her, but reimbursed her) for whatever it cost her to produce said photos. This isn't a "work for hire" or contractual situation, it would be exactly the same as if the school ordered her pay for the students' art supplies. In employment law, the school would not have to reimburse her for said art supplies, and the art supplies (and anything created with them) would belong to the school.

And yes, OP is really being foolish by not returning the photos to the school. The longer she keeps them, or if she gives them to the kids' parents, the more likely the police will come knocking at her door. (And her former employer will be legally free to tell anyone - including OP's prospective employers - all about this.)

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Quoting eerelations

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There is no law to find. Everything you do, make or create at your employer's request belongs to your employer.

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First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

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Quoting TechWorker

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Not so fast.

If I am a student in a school and I am told to buy school supplies (notebooks, folders, pencils), then those supplies belong to me, and I can take them with me even if I quit going to that school.

Similarly, the OP may have been told to take photos of the kids and to use those photos as her "teacher" supplies.

If the school does not reimburse me for my notebooks, folders, and pencils, then the school does not own my supplies. If the school does not reimburse the OP for the photos, then the school does not own the photos. The teacher that replaces the OP, can then take new photos at that new teacher's expense.




Why would having non-sexual photos of kids be creepy? Ever hear of school yearbooks? Or school newspapers?

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Stop. Stop giving advice. A student buying supplies off a list (or more likely the parents) is hugely different than a teacher who voluntarily buys supplies for his or her classroom. Students are required to have certain materials. Teachers who want to buy stuff for their classroom out of their own pocket do so at their own risk of losing that money. Nothing in her story says she bought anything for the classroom. She took pictures that don't belong to her and dropped off the canned good after she got fired.

Nothing you said makes any sense. As usual.

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Quoting RechaeT

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I've only contacted one parent and she was a friend. The other parents I never contacted, but tech worker did have logic. I printed those pictures from my printer and snapped those with my camera

Where can I find this law? If I am wrong then I will give the pictures back

These weren't home photos of the children. I forgot to mention that these were photos I took of them in the classroom doing daily activities or portfolio photos. All the HOME PHOTOS I let stay in the classroom. They were not mine because they brought those to school to share with the class.

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Tech Worker has ZERO logic. Ignore his or her advice.

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Quoting TechWorker

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First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

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If she was a teacher, taking photographs is not going to be considered in her normal line of work for the purposes you are thinking of. As well, unless there was a written contract stating the photos were works for hire, they weren't.

Again, we have no idea of the conversation between op and the administrator and why the op actually took the pictures. There could have been an agreement, possibly only implied, that the pictures would belong to the school. Maybe there wasn't. We aren't ever going to know the facts of the matter but again I say since op already stated she didn't even want the pictures, only a fool would risk problems by retaining the photos, regardless of who paid for them.

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Quoting TechWorker

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First of all, we need to know whether the OP was an employee or a contractor.

Also, we need to know whether taking these photos was within the OP's normal scope of work. Was the OP told in a job offer (orally or in writing) that she would have to take photos of the kids? If the OP did not know how to use a camera, would the OP have been fired? If taking the photos was not in the OP's normal scope of work, then the OP may own the photos.

Also, we need to see what the contract or the employee agreement says about these photos.

My point is that nothing should be assumed. That's why I said, "Not so fast."

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Oh for heaven's sake! OP was an employee! And yes, taking the photos was within her normal scope of work! OP has told us all of this already - I admit some of her posts are quite difficult to understand, but yes, she did manage to convey this to us.

Regarding her contract/employment agreement - unless this/those documents clearly state that the school will reimburse OP for whatever monies she paid out to create the photos, then OP doesn't have a case for reimbursement. And if OP had a document that stated this (if she even has a document at all), she would have told us. Ergo, she does not have such a document.

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Quoting jk

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If she was a teacher, taking photographs is not going to be considered in her normal line of work for the purposes you are thinking of. As well, unless there was a written contract stating the photos were works for hire, they weren't.

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According to the OP, all teachers at this school have to take photos of their students. So it would seem that this is part of their normal line of work. It may not be so at other schools, but at this one, it sure seems to be so.

Fine. Show me the law that says that any pictures taken by the OP belong to her unless she is reimbursed by the school. Put your money where your mouth is, or shut it.

I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.

Also to mention these pictures are also required to be printed and taken with the schools technology, however the school did not have any of that so I had to use my things

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Quoting RechaeT

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Also to mention these pictures are also required to be printed and taken with the schools technology, however the school did not have any of that so I had to use my things

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This has been answered already. The photos belong to the school.

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Quoting eerelations

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This has been answered already. The photos belong to the school.

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I still don't see where you come up with that.

Even if one wants to argue it was within ops scope of work, which is unlikely, at most it would mean school owned the copyrights. There really is nothing here proving school or op owns the prints. There is big difference between ownership of
the copyrights and ownership of the prints. Op has not provided enough info to determine who owns the prints.

But again, regardless, it's foolish to fight to retain something you admitted you don't want and it is causing you problems.

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Quoting jk

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so "defeating" A former employer in court for some unlentioned reason and you're Perry Frickin' Mason? Your statement in itself is meaningless.

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Defeating a former employer does not mean I'm Perry Mason. But it does mean that I know SOMETHING about employment law. I was responding to someone who said that I know nothing at all about employment law, which is clearly not the case.

You know nothing about the employment law that is applicable in this thread. That has been proven by your incorrect statements about it. As for the rest - well, time will tell. You certainly haven't shown any evidence of it yet.