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Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record

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  • 11-22-2016, 08:49 AM
    free9man
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Quote:

    Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    Because of the expense it is not an option for most ordinary citizens and small news outlets.
    What we have is a secret investigation of secret police.
    That's not going to work...

    What secret police? The investigations have pretty much always been confidential in CA. If you want that to change, someone is going to have to step up with the $$$$ to fight for that change.
  • 11-22-2016, 09:10 AM
    huntsab
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Yeah, we'll need just a little more $$$ than the police unions.

    We'll get their names when we get sued.
  • 11-22-2016, 09:25 AM
    budwad
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Why do you members of this forum (that I hold most in high regard) play into this bull sh*t? It must be a slow and boring day.:friendly_wink:
  • 11-22-2016, 10:02 AM
    free9man
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Why do you members of this forum (that I hold most in high regard) play into this bull sh*t? It must be a slow and boring day.:friendly_wink:

    While he can be hardheaded and obstinate at times, huntsab is passionate and sincere in his desire to reform things (whether we agree if reform is needed or not). He may not like what we tell him sometimes but he usually accepts it, especially from Carl.
  • 11-22-2016, 10:27 AM
    Mark47n
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    While I 'll not always agree with the police union or the way that individual locals conduct their business, make no mistake that unions consider protecting their employees their first and foremost responsibility. Does that always go down well? No, but most of the time you'll never hear about it. This goes for ALL unions. It's their entire reason for being. Part of that is protecting the individuals right to privacy regarding, not only their personnel records but their identity wherever possible. They aren't public servants in the way that our elected official are, they are employees. Having worked on all sides of the union, member, non union and management in a union shop I can tell you in all confidence that this is a good thing.

    This is tough one to keep my personal views out!
  • 11-22-2016, 11:21 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Quote:

    Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    Because of the expense it is not an option for most ordinary citizens and small news outlets.
    What we have is a secret investigation of secret police.
    That's not going to work...

    In general the law protects most parts of a government employee’s personnel file from being required to be disclosed under freedom of information/public record access laws. It is not unique to the police nor unique to California. Some of the laws are simply discretionary, i.e. allow the agency to refuse to disclose to it, while others are mandatory and prohibit the agency from disclosing it. Either way, the basic policy here is generally the same: the public employee is entitled to a certain degree of privacy concerning his/her work record. As California law permits agencies to refuse to disclose most details of a police officer’s personnel file under California’s Public Records Act (PRA) that Act cannot be the basis for a lawsuit to compel the disclosure. You’d need to find some other basis to compel disclosure under California law, if there is one. Otherwise, it would just end up being a waste of your time and money to pursue it.

    IMO your use of the term “secret police” is erroneous here. While certainly some information about the police is kept confidential, at least while an investigation is ongoing, much of what they do is exposed to public view. We know who the police are, what their powers and authority are, what arrests they make, what their budgets are, etc. It is quite unlike the secret police of some dictatorships which operate in near total secrecy and employ methods, including torture and murder, to pursue those deemed enemies of the state. In those nations no one outside the police organization and the few who control it have any idea who is part of the organization, what it does, what rules, if any, apply to it. Opponents of those governments may simply disappear at the hands of the secret police without any information about what happened to them. You might desire more transparency than we have with respect to our law enforcement, but the fact that it is not as open as you like is not the same thing as amounting to a “secret police.”
  • 11-22-2016, 12:17 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Quote:

    Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    Yeah, we'll need just a little more $$$ than the police unions.

    We'll get their names when we get sued.

    Yeah ... that's not the police unions (which, aside from a handful of large agencies, are rather poor and often too poor to litigate much of anything), it's cities and counties that fight the release of personnel records. Why? Because that's the law.

    And who is "we", and why would you be sued by the city or a police union?
  • 11-22-2016, 12:32 PM
    huntsab
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    The City will be sued by the victim of this incident of police brutality. "We" will pay all expenses and the settlement.
  • 11-22-2016, 01:26 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Quote:

    Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    The City will be sued by the victim of this incident of police brutality. "We" will pay all expenses and the settlement.

    Of course, if it was justified, then it will not BE "police brutality."

    But, the taxpayers will, of course, have to pay for the defense and any award that might result. Or, as is most likely if there is fault to be had, an out of court settlement (as is most likely, even when there is no fault).
  • 11-22-2016, 05:29 PM
    cbg
    Re: Is a Police Officer's Administrative Suspension a Matter of Public Record
    Y'know, the thing that bothers me about this guy is that no matter what the situation or circumstances, the police in question are, in his mind, not only guilty until proven innocent, but even if proven innocent (or at least, not guilty - I acknowledge the difference) he refuses to accept it and insists it's a cover-up. His bias is so intense that all anyone has to do is make an accusation and as far as he's concerned, that officer is guilty as charged no matter what.

    I get that he wants accountability. I don't have a problem with that, overall. I have a problem with the fact that there is absolutely nothing anyone can say that will ever convince him that any police officer is anything but guilty of - whatever.

    And the mood of my post is not derision, but sadness.
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