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Quoting qwaspolk69
You know, you're right--it is always assumed that if you try to defend yourself against false accusations, it makes certain people MORE suspicious. That's why I admitted that I might regret it. However, there are some people on here who have had the clarity of thought to give solid answers and good info, despite those of your mentality. If you want to think I'm the creep, I can't stop you. Have fun.Quote:
Quoting qwaspolk69
But, one more thing: only the people who LEAD support groups are trained to hear such things (and some so-called support groups are run by the untrained). The other group members are obviously not trained. They're just there to get support, themselves. (My friend's husband beat her and when she went to a "support group", it was so disturbing to hear the other women's stories, she got secondarily traumatized and quit going. So, NO, the people in attendance are not trained OR protected from hearing disturbing things because that's what people talk about in support groups.) I have also known of church group situations where the leaders are NOT certified therapists, but lead these groups and give "counsel". This is a fact. Ask around. And, I did not say how I heard the story; I said I would not give details and I won't.
I also think you might be right: No one in his right mind would tell such a story. Maybe this man was NOT in his right mind. However, plenty of guys do plenty of similar things. I hear of men dating teens ALL THE TIME. I find it sick, but it happens. YES, people I barely know tell me such stories more than I would have ever guessed. Just a week or so ago, my landlady's daughter said she met her husband when she was 16 and he was 25, and that, in their countries of origin (Australia and the Philippines) it was legal, so they didn't think it was a big deal, morally, even though they were in the U.S. at the time they met, and had to be careful not to get in trouble with the law. She also said her parents "loved him". And, no, I never asked my landlady, who is from the US and married in Australia, about it because I'd feel sick if she confirmed that she approved of it and I still have to deal with her.) Check out some current celebrities who have 18 and 19 year old girlfriends and these men are in their 40s and 50s!
Oh, sure, 18 and 19 are legal. So, what? It's still gross. 17 and 19 are not different enough to make it all ok. It's just a legality. Just enough to keep someone from jail when he's screwing a kid. 18 and 19 with 40 and 50 are even more disgusting than 17 and 30, IMO--and I am plenty disturbed by that, to being with.
As for not being his friend, I NEVER said I was his friend. I barely knew the guy. (See above: YES, such people blab about their lives. I don't know why.) But, I find it hard to believe that if you are a man (and I don't know if you are), you would reject another man as a friend/buddy/whatever based on his dating a 17-year-old when he was 30, many years ago. I am not even sure a man would reject another man if the guy did it recently, admitted it was messed-up and didn't do it again. I would love to think this is true. But, I see that MOST MEN are not all that discriminating when it comes to other guys. They always say not to be "judgmental, people make mistakes, blah-blah. If you're being 100% honest with yourself about it, great. I wish more people saw it that way.
Ok, I'm done.
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09-05-2016, 05:00 PMLegallyShockedRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an Adult
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09-05-2016, 05:06 PMTaxing MattersRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an AdultTaking the account at face value, you are still taking the word of the man with whom you spoke, and he had made certain assumptions (and/or you did based on what he told you). The first thing that he (and you) are assuming is what the hotel employees thought of the situation. Both of you might be thinking that they assumed what he was there for because he and you know what he was there for. But unless they expressly told him what they assumed was going on, that’s speculation on his and your part. All we really know is that the hotel employee said simply that they didn’t want any part of it, which could mean a whole lot of things. In particular, it is not at all clear the employees thought something illegal was going to occur. Unsavory and illegal are two different things, after all. The second thing that both of you are assuming is that the hotel did not contact the police. It may be that they did and the police declined to investigate for some reason, e.g. because there was insufficient information provided to indicate a crime had occurred or was in progress, or whatever.Quote:
Quoting LegallyShocked
The legality of it I have explained before. The hotel staff had no obligation to report anything, but they could if they wanted to do so. The hotel staff had no authority to require the girl provide ID, though they could have asked if they had wanted. The hotel staff had every right to deny them room for any reason other than illegal discrimination.
What you are asking us to speculate on is just what the hotel staff thought might have been going on between the man and the girl and why the staff did not report anything (if in fact they didn’t) based on their assumptions of what the situation was. There are a whole of answers I can think of to both parts — what the staff might have thought and why they might not have reported it — and I see no benefit in listing them all as my speculation doesn’t really matter and might not come anywhere close to the mark. It is worth remembering that different people can see the same thing and walk away with very different opinions about what was going on. The only people who really know and can answer what you are asking are the hotel employees involved. You would evidently report it based on what you knew about it and find the situation very objectionable, and I understand that. But there is no guarantee the hotel staff saw it the same way. -
09-05-2016, 05:36 PMLegallyShockedRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an AdultOk, I am going to try to clear this up because I believe you are actually trying to understand rather than just fight and accuse, etc. First, maybe you didn't read the original posts and subsequent info posts.Quote:
Quoting jk
I realize Asians look extremely young; I've worked with a huge Asian population and knew girls in their 20s who looked 12 or 13 and women in their 30s who I thought were college girls. That's actually why I included this bit of info.: to show how young this girl looked, especially with a teddy bear. She was almost 18, according to the man in the story, but looked even younger. He said so, and you and I can easily believe it's so, having a good idea how young Asians can look. So, I was making the point that it could easily look creepy to the hotel staff, and this is what the man conveyed in his telling of the story. I said that the girl was almost 18 and, according to the MAN, looked 13 or 14. (See older posts.) I don't know her. I wasn't there. Never saw her. But, based on the many dozens of Asians I have seen, I find it easy to believe.
Secondly, you said: so, what was this person that relayed all of this to you doing while all of this went on? Does he always just hang out in hotel lobbies watching people and listening in on their conversations? That's a bit creepy all in itself.
Hence, my confusion: You seem to have created another person: a person who witnessed this, in addition to the man. Like there was a bystander, watching and listening.
Thirdly, no, I did not report this man who told me a story about something that happened 6 years prior (now, 8 years ago--I heard this story 2 years ago), when he took a nearly 18-year-old-girl he was dating to a hotel room. It is odd, however, that people here would go on and on about how even the hotel staff have no proof of anything to report, and I am wrong to also assume (which I have said repeatedly, I am not doing, merely reporting what the man told me). YET, you are telling me I am wrong to NOT report it. Again, completely inconsistent. If you think there is a case for a story I was told (not anything I witnessed, as people here keep pointing out--not even anything those (staff) who were there have any proof of, as those here also keep pointing out) from 2 years ago, for a story that was said to have taken place EIGHT years ago, let me know. Especially when the girl has been legal about as long as the story is old. (Since she was nearly 18 when it happened.) IF she is even still in the country and not back in Japan or wherever.
The story always bothered me, and I ran across this site by chance--the way many people find things online--so I thought it was a good opportunity to ask. That's all.
Thank you. That is the best answer I have received. Excellent points. Valid and worth consideration.Quote:
Quoting Taxing Matters
To be clear, I was not giving a direct verbatim quote of what the hotel told the man. How could I? It's not like I received transcipts, right? I was just paraphrasing what was (likely) paraphrased to me, as people do when they tell stories and re-tell someone else's. I cannot be sure, of course, as it was 2 years ago, but I recall him telling me that the staff suggested he was with a minor, and that the furnishing of an ID proving otherwise would have resolved the matter. (If she was not yet 18, there was no reason to provide staff with her ID, of course, so it makes sense that they would simply go.)
And, you are absolutely right--I don't know that the hotel DIDN'T contact the police. I actually came to that conclusion before reading your post based on some of the replies I've received. I wasn't certain that they weren't going to report it after the couple left (I said this in my original post), but I realized that I also don't know that they didn't report it BEFORE telling them to leave. It could have been that the police were dismissive and the hotel decided to handle it by telling the couple to leave.
What stumped me most was why the staff didn't simply request an ID BEFORE telling them to leave if her adult status was their concern. It seemed to be a simple way to ascertain her age and solve the matter. But, it's true that her age may not have been their only, or even, primary concern. As others here have pointed out, they may have thought that, legal age or not, something else objectionable and possibly illegal was going on. Ergo, they didn't care about seeing her ID since that would only prove her age, not the couple's innocence in other matters.
Again, thank you for your solid answers.
I recall him telling me that the staff suggested he was with a minor, and that the furnishing of an ID proving otherwise would have resolved the matter.
I realize this may not be clear.
I meant that they made clear they thought he was with a minor and that they had a problem with it, and told him to leave before asking them for ID. They made the assumption and acted on it (accusation) without covering their backs. From a customer relations standpoint, it seems that a business would be careful of such things these days as it seems like they can get backlash for almost anything. So, now I understand that it is their right to refuse people, and not considered illegal discrimination. I still would have thought it common to cover their backs by ascertaining info before accusing and offending a customer should they turn out to have guessed wrong. -
09-05-2016, 07:01 PMCocoabeanRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an Adult
It may be as simple as the hotel didn't want their other guests to be uncomfortable with seeing what they observed of the couple when they were in the lobby. None of us can say what the reason was.
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09-05-2016, 07:11 PMjkRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an Adultthat was before you revealed the guy had told you all of this was the guy trying to hook up with the kidQuote:
Secondly, you said: so, what was this person that relayed all of this to you doing while all of this went on? Does he always just hang out in hotel lobbies watching people and listening in on their conversations? That's a bit creepy all in itself.
re; reporting this:
the hotel had no proof of anything. You apparently have a confession this guy dated minors and likely engaged in sex with them. Unless you know the statute of limitations has expired or had at the time you learned of the issue, you failing to report this to the police is much more egregious than what the hotel management did. Nothing inconsistent about that at all. -
09-06-2016, 02:35 AMTaxing MattersRe: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an AdultQuote:
Quoting LegallyShocked
Exactly. The man told you a paraphrased story, one tinged with his own knowledge of facts the hotel staff did not have. There is no way to know exactly what the hotel staff thought might be going on or what its real concern was. If the only thing that bothered them was that she might be a minor, the staff (if they had wanted to be tactful) would not have expressed any moral outrage at what they saw and instead would have quietly asked the girl for ID. That ID would have cleared up the age issue. But it may well be that whether she was a minor wasn’t all there was to it. Even if she was an adult and everything was legal, they may still have not wanted them there. You don’t know and thus we don’t know either. And if they had no real idea if any crime was involved, they may not have seen any reason to make a report to the police. What would they say? “Well, she looked like a young teen but we don't really know what her age was and we think maybe they were there for sex but we really have no proof of it.” Even if they had made that report, what would the police have done with something like that? It doesn’t really provide anything to go on. It is not illegal for an adult to simply be with a minor, after all. Without proof that he was going to be involved with some illegal activity with her, there is nothing they could do. The hotel staff may well have known that from prior instances when they have called the police on suspicions they have had about hotel guests. In the end, there are just too many possibilities to know. It would matter a lot exactly what the man and girl looked like and did, and exactly how the conversation with the hotel staff went, none of which we really know. Depending on how that played out the impression a person might have of it could be vastly different. It’s like watching a play. Change a few of the lines in the play and how the actors deliver those lines and it might leave a very different impression than the original version. -
09-06-2016, 12:28 PMqwaspolk69Re: Does Hotel Staff Have to Report a Minor with an AdultThank goodness you are done. What the hell are you talking about with support groups? I can't even remember what I responded. But a support group is completely different than some friend telling you a story. I don't even know what your point is with your comment on that. I really do not want to go back and find the response to that post. No one said other group members are trained at anything.Quote:
Quoting LegallyShocked
You sound like a complete tool. I'm going to go with this story is about you. So go get some help and stop ****ing teenage girls in hotels.