Does Hotel Staff Have to Report an Adult Trying to Check In With a Minor

Quote:

---

Quoting LegallyShocked

---

Ok, firstly, having a teenage girl stay with her male coach in a hotel room, on a trip alone is just plain unsafe. I don't think I have to go into THE MANY news stories about this scenario, some rather recent (swim coach and 13 year old girl competitor whom he was molesting and who thought she was in love with him, finally came out when she was an adult, huge news story in the media), plus all the child actors who have been molested under similar circumstances (staying with managers, etc.). That all makes me beyond sick, so I'm not going to delve further into it or entertain the idea that it might be "innocent". NO ONE with a brain or conscience lets their minor child daughter stay in a hotel room with her male coach, agent, manager, etc. NO DECENT MAN would risk his reputation or appearance by doing it. Nor would he even want to risk any temptation or perhaps the girl, being young and impressionable, having a "crush" and making advances on him which some adolescent girls are bold enough to do, and have done.
SECONDLY--HUGE SIGH, HERE-- PLEASE READ BACKGROUND: I am not assuming anything. I was not the staff who asked them to leave. I was not even there. I was told this story by the man, himself, the 30 year old with the teenage girlfriend. I think it's creepy. I think the staff not reporting to the police was irresponsible. Suspicions that a minor might be exploited are serious enough to report and risk being wrong about. It is not ok to risk being right and not reporting it, IMO. If the police don't take it seriously, that is on them.
Regarding the hotel staff, they had proof of the man's age because he's the one who rented the room with his ID and credit card, the normal things one presents when booking and checking in. There was no assumption about his age, but about the girl's. The "obvious couple" is, AGAIN, (I've repeated this so many times now), what the man told me. If HE is saying it, and HE was the one with her, then that's not my assumption, it's his report. The hotel staff may be said to have "assumed" they were a couple, but the man, himself, said it was not only true, but obvious. They weren't pretending otherwise, trying to sneak her in on the downlow, or trying to deny they were a couple. He didn't argue with the hotel that she was his niece, sister, whatever. He accepted that they knew he was with this girl.







SIGH. I am wondering if some of you even read my post in full before responding. I debated whether to even answer because the suggestions, here, have gotten WAY out of hand. Now, you're wondering if the crep in question is ME. Oh, geez. Talk about wild assumptions! The reason I decided to try, YET AGAIN, to clarify is because I don't want anyone unecessarily being disturbed by this wild idea (that I am the man) because that is something I can empathize with, being disturbed by such a story. That's why I posted in the first place. As frustrating as it is to have to KEEP repeating myself, I am at least glad to know that most people are decent enough to agree that this scenario is a creepy one. You defend the guy's possible innocence, yet admit you "hope" I am not "such a person". Clearly, you are NOT ok with such a man. (How could you be, as a father of a daughter?)


As for, "You thinking something without anything other than what appears to be your extremely suspicious and perverse ideas is on you." I understand that you want to defend someone who might be like you, a father or grandfather with female children. But, can you REALLY not see ANYTHING suspicious AT ALL about a 30 year old White man checking into a hotel with a teddy bear-toting Asian teenage girl? 30 is NOT old enough to be her father, certainly not grandfather. Let's not quibble over far-fecthed possibilities such as how he could have had her when he was 13, AND she could be biracial and look like her mother AND whatever other fairytales one might dream up. Let's be realistic. They look like they're together. (And, in fact, they were.) Is that an assumption? Yes, but a reasonable one. It is one the hotel staff made when asking them to leave. And, the man did not try to talk his way out or pretend that it wasn't exactly what it looked like: a grown man with his teen girlfriend. Now, she could have been a legal teen, sure. But, most people who think 30 and 17 is gross, are going to feel the same way about 30 and 18. Legal doesn't make it ok for an adult to have sex with a kid, which is what a teenager is. If you think you feel differently, please let me know when your teen granddaughter starts sleeping with men in their 30s and you find it all perfectly ok.


It was my understanding that if an adult drives a minor across certain lines (state? county?), it is automatically kidnapping. That's what I was asking. Just like a minor cannot legally consent to sex, thereby making it rape, she also cannot legally consent to travelling out of town with an adult without it being kidnapping. That was my confusion and question about what is legally considered kidnapping. Obviously, if a parent gives permission, it is not kidnapping. I am, obviously, not talking about such cases.



I am only replying to this--and I hope I don't regret it--because it would be a real shame if you were disturbed by something totally false. The entire reason I posted in the first place is that this man's story was disturbing to me, as are all stories of exploitation of young girls, or any type of predatory activity. Legal or not, it is WRONG for a grown man to take advantage of a young girl. She does not know what she is doing, however grown-up and mature she thinks she is--and they ALL think they're mature. It's part of being young and immature.
I am not going to give explicit details on how I came to hear this man's story. No, of course he was not saying, "Hey, I went down the street to rape a child." He was telling an embarrassing story about himself having been stupid (at minimum) and delusional enough to date a teenage girl when he was 30. I don't know why people reveal such things. I did not want to hear the story, and I wish I hadn't. Have you NEVER been around someone telling a story that you wish they weren't telling? Have you never allowed someone to speak despite being disturbed by what they said? Have you never heard more than you wanted to hear because you had no chance to escape before hearing it? I didn't know what he was going to say, and when he said it, it was too late to leave the room. Can you not imagine jobs and other scenarios in which people share unsettling things? (Therapy, support groups, hotlines, church meetings--places where everyone feels accepted. Even just people hanging out in groups, gabbing, saying more than they should.)

---

Dude seriously? You had your questions answered from a legal standpoint and then the other points. Just let it go already. The fact you keep pushing this makes it seem even more likely YOU are the guy in question. No one in their right mind would just tell someone that story.

No I have never had someone tell me a story like this and if they did - I would no longer be friends with this person. Ever. Therapy and support groups are completely different situations. The people in those situations are TRAINED to hear such stories. You are not.

Now I really think you are the 30 year old man in question who took a teenager to a hotel room. I think the thread has really run its course at this point. Go get some help.

I think i figured this out


Legallyshocked; I don't think your therapist would approve of you attempting to shift the blame for your actions to others. You are supposed to own your mistakes. You are to understand that your actions were due to your own sick mind and regardless of any others actions or failures to act; your actions are on you.

Quote:

---

Quoting LegallyShocked

---

It was my understanding that if an adult drives a minor across certain lines (state? county?), it is automatically kidnapping. That's what I was asking. Just like a minor cannot legally consent to sex, thereby making it rape, she also cannot legally consent to travelling out of town with an adult without it being kidnapping. That was my confusion and question about what is legally considered kidnapping. Obviously, if a parent gives permission, it is not kidnapping. I am, obviously, not talking about such cases.

---

No, it is not kidnapping just because someone brings a minor that is not their own child across state lines.

Also, your question at the outset was whether or not there was a legal requirement for a hotel clerk to report this sort of suspicious activity. The answer to that question is, "No." It may be the right thing to do, but the law does not require it.

Now, even if the clerk DID call the police, was the clerk going to physically detain the couple for the time necessary for the police to respond? And, even if the police DID respond, their ability to do much of anything might be limited. On its face, no crime has been committed. Sure, the police could detain the pair and ascertain their ages and contact the parent of the younger one if she was a minor.

Your friend is a creep. But, being a creep is not a crime. The good news is that you can choose a new friend!

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

As to the idea that driving a minor across state lines is kidnapping: poppycock. Driving a monor anywhere without the consent of the parents is kidnapping but the key word is consent. It's a pesky workd, I know, as it can change everything.

---

As a note, it may not even be kidnapping to take a child somewhere without the consent of the parent. It generally requires that the movement also be against the will of the person being transported. There may be other laws that apply - depending on the state involved - but, not generally kidnapping.

Quote:

---

Quoting cdwjava

---

As a note, it may not even be kidnapping to take a child somewhere without the consent of the parent. It generally requires that the movement also be against the will of the person being transported. There may be other laws that apply - depending on the state involved - but, not generally kidnapping.

---

Perhaps...but I can't think of any situation where a minor can be transported across state lines absent parental or guardians permission without, shall we say, severe legal ramifications.

This has been explored, in detail, in WA, at least, when my wife's ex-husband climbed aboard the crazy train. In one instance he did take the children to Canada without mom's permission or documentation by having one of the women he was travelling with lie and claim to be the mother and having the children play along. Good times!:wallbang:

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

Perhaps...but I can't think of any situation where a minor can be transported across state lines absent parental or guardians permission without, shall we say, severe legal ramifications.

---

I can think of several:

17 year old willingly goes across the state line with adult friends. No permission, just does it. No severe legal ramifications.

16 year old willingly goes across state line with 18 year old significant other and no hanky-panky occurs. No severe legal ramifications.

Uncle takes willing minor nephew across state lines without telling folks to run to a store or whatever. No severe legal ramifications.

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

This has been explored, in detail, in WA, at least, when my wife's ex-husband climbed aboard the crazy train. In one instance he did take the children to Canada without mom's permission or documentation by having one of the women he was travelling with lie and claim to be the mother and having the children play along. Good times!:wallbang:

---

That's an entirely different animal as there were likely custody rulings, etc.. in place. It also involves someone making false statements.

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

Perhaps...but I can't think of any situation where a minor can be transported across state lines absent parental or guardians permission without, shall we say, severe legal ramifications.

---

I can easily think of many such situations because federal law (which is what applies to issues of interstate acts) does not make it criminal to transport a minor across states lines except in very limited circumstances, primarily transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes (the federal Mann Act).

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

This has been explored, in detail, in WA, at least, when my wife's ex-husband climbed aboard the crazy train. In one instance he did take the children to Canada without mom's permission or documentation by having one of the women he was travelling with lie and claim to be the mother and having the children play along.

---

A very different situation because there the transport was done with the consent one parent — the father. So the issue was not transportation without parental consent but rather a parent arranging transport of a child in circumstances that violate a court order in their divorce/custody case. Moreover, that is a civil matter between the parents, not a criminal one unless the court finds the father in criminal contempt of court.

Quote:

---

Quoting Mark47n

---

Perhaps...but I can't think of any situation where a minor can be transported across state lines absent parental or guardians permission without, shall we say, severe legal ramifications.

---

There can be ramifications, but, it's not necessarily going to be kidnapping.

For instance, If 18 year old boyfriend takes his 16 year old girlfriend skiing in Nevada, and her mom and dad did not approve of this trip because she has homework to do, it's not kidnapping. It MIGHT be contributing to the delinquency of a minor if the boyfriend encouraged her in disobeying her parents, but that's a big maybe.

It really depends on all the factors, not merely the age and parental permissions.

Quote:

---

This has been explored, in detail, in WA, at least, when my wife's ex-husband climbed aboard the crazy train. In one instance he did take the children to Canada without mom's permission or documentation by having one of the women he was travelling with lie and claim to be the mother and having the children play along. Good times!:wallbang:

---

THAT is a different - and frustrating - ball of wax. Court orders, ages of children, false info .. yeah, that's different. Sorry.

Fair enough and I'll cop to being overly broad to make a point.

As to the personal bit...just the tip of the crazy iceberg and, perhaps paints my perceptions from time to time.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

You say it was obvious they were a couple yet you described nothing to support that. You said the man Admitted being a couple (a new statement in your latest post). Actually you never even suggested that before. You said the manager said he had to leave and he left. You didn't say the manager accused him of anything nor did you say the man said anything but simply left. In fact you were accusing the man simply because he did not protest.

especially since you were not there (wink, wink), it would mean you are accepting another party's description which will be influenced by their interpretations. You do realize why hearsay evidence is not accepted in a court, don't you?


so, what was this person that relayed all of this to you doing while all of this went on? Does he always just hang out in hotel lobbies watching people and listening in on their conversations? That's a bit creepy all in itself.

so this person (the adult male) has admitted to you bis intent was to rape the child?

have you reported this to the police? While you are incensed the hotel manager did not report this, you now have heard a confession of a child rapist. The statute of limitations for such crimes is lengthy and does not begin to run until the victim reaches the age of majority.

So, are you allowing this sick criminal to run free? That is so much more egregious than what you are blaming the hotel manager for.

---

Not sure why I bother, but, here goes...AGAIN...
Firstly you seem to have created TWO people: the man who was with the teenager girl, and a person who "just hangs out watching people in hotel lobbies." There is only ONE person I spoke to, the man in the story, who, himself, told me he was dating a teenage girl.
No, I would certainly NOT "let a criminal run free". I think I've made it clear REPEATEDLY that I think it's gross for a grown man to date a teenager even if she is legal. I know, my opinion is not the same thing as the law. I just stated that. When the man told me, many years had passed and the girl was 17 (I said this way before) when he took her to the hotel. Believe me, this man KNOWS what I think of his actions. I don't care about "almost legal",or even legal, she was a teenager and he was 30. Period. My ENTIRE QUESTION THIS WHOLE TIME has simply been why (and, yes, I'm asking people to speculate and give opinions) the hotel staff did not report this man if they were so convinced he was doing something illegal with a minor, they would kick him out for it. Several people have assured me they had no legal obligation to do so, that they may not have had actual proof of anything to report (which I covered, saying that I feel suspicions are enough and you err on the side of safety and let the cops sort it out if you turn out to be wrong. If you turn out to be right, it would horrid not to have reported it. I already said this in a previousn post.) I was also told here that the hotel also have the right to refuse anyone even if it is just suspicion of wrong-doing. They have assured me that hotel staff have neither the obligation nor the right to demand the girl's ID, but they CAN tell her to go for whatever reason. (Other than sex, race, etc., as someone here posted.)
What I find VERY ODD, illogical, and inconsistent is that the people here who have a problem with my story are both wrongly accusing ME of wrongly "accusing" this man AND accusing me of not having done anything about it, i.e. reported him, myself. It cannot be BOTH WAYS.
AGAIN, there is NO ASSUMPTION/SPECULATION on my part: the MAN IN THE STORY, TOLD ME, HIMSELF. He said he was dating this teen girl, took her on a trip, and when they were in a hotel, after he'd checked in, the hotel staff saw the girl with him (and, yes, her teddy bear), and told him to leave. The hotel made the assumption of something unsavory going on, but in fact, the man admitted in his telling of the story that they were right. Meaning, he was a 30 year old man with a teenage girl in a hotel, and yes, they were a couple, and it was definitely NOT PLATONIC. AGAIN--THE MAN, HIMSELF, SAID ALL THIS. None of it is MY assumption. And, YES, I said more than once that they were, in fact, a couple, based on the man's own account. (You might not have read all the posts, or not in their entirety. Someone asked before how it was "obvious they were a couple", and I told them.)
I truly hope that clears it up. After this, I give up.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

I think i figured this out


Legallyshocked; I don't think your therapist would approve of you attempting to shift the blame for your actions to others. You are supposed to own your mistakes. You are to understand that your actions were due to your own sick mind and regardless of any others actions or failures to act; your actions are on you.

---

Hilarious. Now, I am going to get back to real answers from real people.

I didn't create anybody. You said the child molester told you all of this. I never said anything about some third party watching the event.

Anyway; you never said the hotel knew the girl was under age. You said your friend was told to leave but you did not say they accused him of anything. Maybe it's as simple as they wanted to err on the side of caution and send him down the road in case it really was something illegal. You also said the girl was Asian. A lot of Asians look young for their age. The manager could have thought the girl was an adult even though she looked young if he has known many Asians that looked young for their age.

You also said the manager made the assumption of illicit activity. Again, an assumption is not proof. It's a guess; a feeling; speculation. Again, err on the side of caution so you don't get caught up in issues, if there are actually issues




As to what age anybody thought the girl was; you have no idea what anybody thought. You are speculating they believed she was 12-13. How could you even venture such a guess, unless you were there and they said something to you to give you that impression?


so, have you reported this guy to the police? If not, you are worse than what you accuse the manager of since you know this guy had performed illegal activities.