Seizure of Alcoholic Beverages at a Concert Venue

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Quoting TechWorker

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I wasn't asking about flying. I was asking about entertainment venues on the ground.

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Yes, they can take your water bottle away.

Satisfied?

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Quoting geek

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Yes, they can take your water bottle away.

Satisfied?

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Actually, I am not satisfied. What law allows them to take away my bottle, without having to prove that there is alcohol in there? If I open up the bottle and let them smell the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol, can they still take the bottle?

And, if they take the bottle, what I am I supposed to do about water? Some of these concerts let out late at night, after all the stores have closed.

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Quoting TechWorker

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Actually, I am not satisfied. What law allows them to take away my bottle, without having to prove that there is alcohol in there? If I open up the bottle and let them smell the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol, can they still take the bottle?

And, if they take the bottle, what I am I supposed to do about water? Some of these concerts let out late at night, after all the stores have closed.

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The likelihood that someone will take your water bottle is pretty slim, but I'm sure they could cite some sort of venue regulation or security concern (doesn't have to be a "law") if you behaved in such a way that led them to believe you were looking for trouble.

If they take the bottle, I doubt you'll perish of thirst between the time you leave the venue and the time you get home.

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Quoting geek

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The likelihood that someone will take your water bottle is pretty slim, but I'm sure they could cite some sort of venue regulation or security concern (doesn't have to be a "law") if you behaved in such a way that led them to believe you were looking for trouble.

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If I'm already leaving the venue and I prevent them from taking the bottle and there is no law that allows them to take the bottle, then I guess the worst thing they can do legally is to memorize my face and to prevent me from coming back into the venue.

If I am leaving the venue with the bottle and they try to restrain me, I can treat their action as an illegal kidnapping and can defend myself accordingly. Correct?

It's not kidnapping. All it takes is an articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed for an LEO to seize you.

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Quoting TechWorker

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So, let's say that I'm carrying a closed but unsealed bottle of water, and that a security guard or a police officer is demanding that I throw the bottle away before leaving (because the bottle COULD contain alcohol). What are my rights? Do I have the right to force the security guard or the officer to PROVE that the bottle contains alcohol?

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Unless the alcohol is vodka, it is not going to look like water. And you are free to decline the search, if you wish. But, you may then run the risk of a detention or arrest - depending on the venue and the nature of the security or law enforcement on scene.

BEST bet, consume the alcohol before leaving!

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Quoting cdwjava

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Unless the alcohol is vodka, it is not going to look like water. And you are free to decline the search, if you wish. But, you may then run the risk of a detention or arrest - depending on the venue and the nature of the security or law enforcement on scene.

BEST bet, consume the alcohol before leaving!

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I don't think that you understand the hypothetical that I was presenting.

I do not drink alcohol. I drink only water. Let's say that I have a bottle that contains water. Let's say that the security guard thinks that my bottle COULD contain alcohol. So, Mr. Security Guard decides to force me to throw out the bottle before leaving.

I need the bottle of water for my trip home. I do not want to throw out my bottle of water. Having water outside the venue is not illegal.

So, what are my rights? Can I force the security guard to prove that the bottle contains alcohol? If I open the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol, will that be enough (from a legal standpoint) to force the security guard to allow me to leave? If I open the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol and I leave the venue and I am arrested for having alcohol outside the venue, can I sue for false arrest?

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Quoting TechWorker

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I don't think that you understand the hypothetical that I was presenting.

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Sure I do. But, if you try to leave with amber "water," you can bet that security or law enforcement will probably stop you. I doubt they fell off the turnip truck the day before the concert or event. Having worked such events before, I have seen such attempts and stopped people. My favorite was the foamy head visible against the 7-11 Slurpee lid!

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I do not drink alcohol. I drink only water. Let's say that I have a bottle that contains water. Let's say that the security guard thinks that my bottle COULD contain alcohol. So, Mr. Security Guard decides to force me to throw out the bottle before leaving.

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Offer him the bottle so he can smell it. Then you will be on your way. Easy!

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So, what are my rights? Can I force the security guard to prove that the bottle contains alcohol? If I open the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol, will that be enough (from a legal standpoint) to force the security guard to allow me to leave? If I open the bottle and there is no smell of alcohol and I leave the venue and I am arrested for having alcohol outside the venue, can I sue for false arrest?

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You can be obstinate and create a confrontation if you want. That's up to you. What they do if you refuse to cooperate or are arrested depends on a host of factors we do not know and can only speculate on.

But, I have never BEEN stopped carrying water out, nor have I ever stopped anyone carrying what appears to be water in a water bottle as they are leaving. So you may be raising your blood pressure over nothing at all. Relax.

I have a novel idea...how about you simply quit looking to provoke a confrontation, and simply take responsibility for yourself? If it SO damn important that you have water available for your drive home, how about if you just simply keep a container of water in your car? You know, take responsibility for your own needs and plan ahead.

And, yes, if the cop has reasonable suspicion that your container contains alcohol, he/she can legally detain you to investigate that. If the venue has a private property rule that NO beverage can be taken from the venue, then the cop can take it away from you or make you throw it away, even if it turns out to truly just be water. No, it is not an illegal detention, illegal seizure, kidnapping, etc., and you have NO legal justification for resisting. No amount of "hypothetical" twisting changes any of that. Is that clear and straight-forward enough for you?

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Quoting PTPD22

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I have a novel idea...how about you simply quit looking to provoke a confrontation, and simply take responsibility for yourself? If it SO damn important that you have water available for your drive home, how about if you just simply keep a container of water in your car? You know, take responsibility for your own needs and plan ahead.

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Many concert venues in Chicago (where I live) are in downtown, which most people access via public transportation because parking is too damn expensive.

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And, yes, if the cop has reasonable suspicion that your container contains alcohol, he/she can legally detain you to investigate that. If the venue has a private property rule that NO beverage can be taken from the venue, then the cop can take it away from you or make you throw it away, even if it turns out to truly just be water. No, it is not an illegal detention, illegal seizure, kidnapping, etc., and you have NO legal justification for resisting. No amount of "hypothetical" twisting changes any of that. Is that clear and straight-forward enough for you?

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Well, are we talking about the venue's rules? Or are we talking about the law? What right does a private venue have to create a rule that prevents people from leaving with beverages that they own? And what is to stop the venue from taking, not just my beverage, but also my phone, my camera, etc.?

I think that maybe some of these venues need to be sued. And, believe me, I will sue for a bottle of water. For the past year, I've been battling a doctor's office over a $23 payment.