Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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Question4law
I don't have a problem believing that someone wielding a knife who had just slashed her own wrist and was heard verbally threatening to kill themselves to appear or act menacingly. Maybe it wasn't intentional menacing, but given the evidebce I just provided, I wouldn't think that conclusion any more illogical than say she was warding his aggression off In self defense with the knife, and was trying to 'cut her way' out of a conflict.
Given that she was only self-harming and you have no evidence she ever threatened anyone else, I don't see where she was menacing anybody.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
I can understand how it sounds distasteful to try to present the alleged assailant as some sort of victim in a suicide attack, but some people are pretty manipulative. One other thing I forgot to mention is that she was screaming at him to get off her and that he was hurting her, every time he tried to take a knife away from her. it was almost like she was setting him up, and trying to make it sound like an attack, so he would get in trouble. I don't have difficulty seeing this as a situation where she was setting him up.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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Question4law
I can understand how it sounds distasteful to try to present the alleged assailant as some sort of victim in a suicide attack, but some people are pretty manipulative.
Suicide attack? Really?
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Question4law
One other thing I forgot to mention is that she was screaming at him to get off her and that he was hurting her, every time he tried to take a knife away from her. it was almost like she was setting him up, and trying to make it sound like an attack, so he would get in trouble. I don't have difficulty seeing this as a situation where she was setting him up.
You weren't there. Your "friend" could be lying his caboose off to you. It is entirely possible he was hurting her while pinning her down.
You just keep adding more and more details trying to paint your "friend" in the best possible light whenever we point out an issue with your previous s
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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Question4law
I can understand how it sounds distasteful to try to present the alleged assailant as some sort of victim in a suicide attack, but some people are pretty manipulative. One other thing I forgot to mention is that she was screaming at him to get off her and that he was hurting her, every time he tried to take a knife away from her. it was almost like she was setting him up, and trying to make it sound like an attack, so he would get in trouble. I don't have difficulty seeing this as a situation where she was setting him up.
Were you there? If not then you have zero clue as to what happened. None. You did not witness any of it. You can believe him all you want but you were not there. He could be telling the truth but you do not know and none of us know.
He can talk to his attorney whose job it is to argue in his defense.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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Question4law
One other thing I forgot to mention is that she was screaming at him to get off her and that he was hurting her, every time he tried to take a knife away from her. it was almost like she was setting him up, and trying to make it sound like an attack, so he would get in trouble. I don't have difficulty seeing this as a situation where she was setting him up.
Kind of like the police scream "stop resisting" when they're beating up someone who is not resisting? Maybe she did set him up, and maybe the police didn't charge her because they like her style? :)
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
I'm just trying to figure out if he has any viable defenses here. Based on the skepticism I've heard here, it sounds like he's going to have to prove his innocence to any jury if he was witnessed cursing and yelling in an argument, pinning a girl to the sofa and seem pulling a distressed person back into his apartnent. I was just surprised the fact that they found her with a slashed wrist and found knives all over the apartment didn't cooberate his story more than what they were able to come up with. It's almost like they were LOOKING for something to charge home with when they didn't even have to, and there were so many other obvious countervailing facts.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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TechWorker
Kind of like the police scream "stop resisting" when they're beating up someone who is not resisting? Maybe she did set him up, and maybe the police didn't charge her because they like her style? :)
Oh, brother ... :rolleyes:
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
He needs to be discussing any potential defense strategy with his criminal defense attorney.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
Anyways, I just talked to him and the entire premise of the charge is based on prosecutirs being able to establish that she DID NOT have a knife in her hand when she was pulled back in. And also that any intent to pull her back in was not one of the requirements of kidnapping listed in the statutes. The defense lawyer states that for him to be found guilty, the use of force has to proven to be malicious, to embarass, to intimidate, or threaten, or to harm. Aparantly the prosecutors think the difference of her having a knife in her hand at the door is what will establish that.
Re: Claiming That Somebody Was Suicidal as a Defense to Battery or Unlawful Restraint
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Question4law
It's almost like they were LOOKING for something to charge home with when they didn't even have to, and there were so many other obvious countervailing facts.
Really? And exactly what “obvious” facts would the cops have seen that would make him innocent of a crime here? So far in your story (and you keep subtly changing it to favor your friend) I see little that is obvious that would let him off the hook from their perspective. I suspect your bias in favor of your friend is coloring your view of things and not letting you see it objectively. Heck, your friend may not be telling you the truth here, or at least not all of it. He certainly isn’t going to paint himself as a bad guy to his friends, after all, is he? The central fact here is that she was leaving the apartment and he pulled her back in, and that was seen by one or more independent witnesses who called police. Those witnesses, according you to, also did not see her with knife. While walking out of the apartment she was posing no risk of imminent danger to your friend or anyone else, yet he committed a battery in the act of pulling her back into the house. That’s what the state’s evidence is going to show. And, now, according you, neighbors or the police heard her screaming for him to get off her and that he was hurting her and yet he continued to struggle with her. That’s apparently what the cops had to go with. Can’t you see how bad that looks? Against that, what exactly is this “obvious” evidence that will show him not to be guilty, apart from his own claim of his good intentions to stop her from committing suicide? The claim that she set him is far fetched, and if that is what he relies on for a defense to this, I think he’ll likely face a very skeptical jury on that one, absent a confession from her to that effect. Even that, though, doesn’t explain why he pulled her back into the apartment. When she was leaving, any immediate threat to anyone was over. The only thing he should have done at that point was call 911 and report what was happening. Grabbing her and pulling her back into the apartment — particularly in view of neighbors, was the wrong thing to do.