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Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement

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  • 07-10-2016, 07:14 AM
    MikeSmith321
    Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    My question involves defamation in the state of: Idaho

    Suppose Jake knows that Sam is crazy and loves to beat up lawyers. Jake hates Tom, who is a lawyer. One day, the three are at the same bus stop. Tom knows notices Sam, whom he realizes hates lawyers, but thinks he is safe since Sam does not know. Jake informs Sam that Tom is a lawyer. Sam then beats up Tom.

    Can Jake claim truth as a defense to any legal repercussion? Surely if someone told a crook where a home owner keeps a spare key, that would be illegal.

    Where is the line drawn? If Matthew anonymously gives a speech about a polarizing political topic, which his boss at work would fire him for if he knew, and then Sally broadcasts that it was Matthew who gave the speech, is Sally legally immune? What if Matthew was a whistleblower?

    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
  • 07-10-2016, 07:55 AM
    jk
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    The truth is a defense to defamation actions but it is not a defense of other torts or even criminal acts. Many of the situstions you describe have nothing to do with defamation. Defamation by definition is the publication of false statements

    But regarding the general question; it's not simply whether a statement is true or not but the intent of the act of publishing the fact that can cause the statement to be the basis of an action by the injured party.
  • 07-10-2016, 11:18 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    Truth is a complete defense to the tort of defamation. As for whether a statement, true or not, might get the speaker into legal trouble depends very much on what is said, who said it, and the circumstances in which it is said. The free speech protection found in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is simply a guarantee against restraint of speech by the government. Note that the right of free speech even protects lies. But like all rights, the right to free speech is not absolute. The government may place certain restrictions on speech where it has a compelling interest to protect. The classic example is that is often used is that the government may make it illegal to shout “fire” in a crowded theater when, in fact, there is no fire because the resulting panic might cause significant injury or even death to the theater patrons as they scramble to get out.

    As to your first example, Jake informing Sam that Tom is a lawyer is not a crime. Sally telling Matthew’s boss that he gave the speech is not a crime and, if true, would not give Matthew any legal against against Sally if Matthew gets fired.

    Note that generally there is no law that protects your name, address, and phone number from disclosure by others; there are few circumstances in which that information is protected, but it is limited. Privacy rights in the U.S. are much more limited than most people seem to think it is. A newspaper may publish the name of rape victims if it wished; the right of freedom of the press and free speech enable the paper to do that. No state, so far as I am aware, has a law that tries to restrict a news outlet from doing that for that reason.
  • 07-11-2016, 10:24 PM
    cidsongs@gmail.com
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Maybe malitious intent to damage ones charecter or harrassment
  • 07-12-2016, 04:22 AM
    MikeSmith321
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    So, if someone is the next Roe vs Wade, an effective strategy by the state might be to leak the true name of Roe to some activists who send her name and address to everyone she knows, and many others she does not know. This then causes her and others like her fear so that they never sue again. All constitutionally protected speech.

    My question for the defendants then would be, "why did you publish this? What possible benefit could it have to society for them to know her name? Please give us a reason other than to cause her fear, harass her, and make others like her afraid to ever sue again." They then reply, "Nah, that was not our reason. We just felt like publishing it, just to exercise our free speech. Do you hate freedom or something?"

    So, the protection of this form of speech is a very effective tool for silencing lots of other speech that could be very important to public policy. Instead of debating the issue, just publish the name and address of the person proposing the issue. Silence them that way, letting them wonder if a militant 1% out there might come visit them later.


    I think we need a supreme court ruling that if speech serves no purpose other than to scare others from speaking, then it is not protected under the 1st amendment. Politicians would still be exempt from this protection, since we need to know where they stand on the issues. If a lay person does run for office years after being protected, there needs to be a way to access all those formerly protected records.
  • 07-12-2016, 07:39 AM
    jk
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    So if I threatened to put my kids in their bedrooms unless they quit screaming it would be illegal?
  • 07-12-2016, 11:14 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    I think we need a supreme court ruling that if speech serves no purpose other than to scare others from speaking, then it is not protected under the 1st amendment.

    No, we don’t and I would strongly oppose having that in the law. What you are saying is that the government then gets to decide what speech serves a legitimate purpose and what speech is only for the purpose of “scaring” someone else. That allows the government to control the content of speech based on its subjective view of the worth of the speech. That’s incredibly dangerous to freedom. It is ironic that you have made yourself out to be a strong defender of free speech in other threads when the speech that is being limited is yours, but then you have no problem restraining speech you think might be detrimental to you. I believe all speech, with the exception of those statements that can cause immediate harm to others, like incitement to instant riot, etc., ought to be protected, whether I like the statements made or not.
  • 07-12-2016, 11:59 AM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    So, if someone is the next Roe vs Wade, an effective strategy by the state might be to leak the true name of Roe to some activists who send her name and address to everyone she knows, and many others she does not know. This then causes her and others like her fear so that they never sue again. All constitutionally protected speech.

    My question for the defendants then would be, "why did you publish this? What possible benefit could it have to society for them to know her name? Please give us a reason other than to cause her fear, harass her, and make others like her afraid to ever sue again." They then reply, "Nah, that was not our reason. We just felt like publishing it, just to exercise our free speech. Do you hate freedom or something?"

    So, the protection of this form of speech is a very effective tool for silencing lots of other speech that could be very important to public policy. Instead of debating the issue, just publish the name and address of the person proposing the issue. Silence them that way, letting them wonder if a militant 1% out there might come visit them later.


    I think we need a supreme court ruling that if speech serves no purpose other than to scare others from speaking, then it is not protected under the 1st amendment. Politicians would still be exempt from this protection, since we need to know where they stand on the issues. If a lay person does run for office years after being protected, there needs to be a way to access all those formerly protected records.

    Just stop...
  • 07-12-2016, 12:56 PM
    Cocoabean
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    So, did the college publish your name regarding kissing or some other sexual encounter with a person who reported it, and you are now feeling bullied? Or maybe the school disclosed something else about you that you did not want the public to know? As a result your grades dropped, so you dropped your classes? Now you want to sue the school.

    The board has been generous with you discussing all your hypothetical situations. Care to be more specific?
  • 07-12-2016, 01:43 PM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting Cocoabean
    View Post
    So, did the college publish your name regarding kissing or some other sexual encounter with a person who reported it, and you are now feeling bullied? Or maybe the school disclosed something else about you that you did not want the public to know? As a result your grades dropped, so you dropped your classes? Now you want to sue the school.

    The board has been generous with you discussing all your hypothetical situations. Care to be more specific?

    *Like*
  • 07-12-2016, 01:43 PM
    eerelations
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting Cocoabean
    View Post
    So, did the college publish your name regarding kissing or some other sexual encounter with a person who reported it, and you are now feeling bullied? Or maybe the school disclosed something else about you that you did not want the public to know? As a result your grades dropped, so you dropped your classes? Now you want to sue the school.

    The board has been generous with you discussing all your hypothetical situations. Care to be more specific?

    Agree. We shouldn't be responding to any more of OP's hypotheticals because that's not what we do here. If OP ever deigns to tell us the details about his specific situation, that's when we should start responding again.
  • 07-13-2016, 01:27 AM
    MikeSmith321
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting Cocoabean
    View Post
    So, did the college publish your name regarding kissing or some other sexual encounter with a person who reported it, and you are now feeling bullied? Or maybe the school disclosed something else about you that you did not want the public to know? As a result your grades dropped, so you dropped your classes? Now you want to sue the school.

    The board has been generous with you discussing all your hypothetical situations. Care to be more specific?

    I have not been accused of anything, except by speculative people in debates. I just suspect affirmative consent might be as polarizing as the abortion issue, or at least will get some people questioning why I care. It makes me heasitant to speak out. Many whistle blowers are heasitant to speak out. An employer might see me as letigious, though likely they are more repelled by people who sue for money.

    Quote:

    Quoting eerelations
    View Post
    Agree. We shouldn't be responding to any more of OP's hypotheticals because that's not what we do here. If OP ever deigns to tell us the details about his specific situation, that's when we should start responding again.

    I'm just someone worried about the direction the country is going in. The rules on college campuses will likely spread to the rest of society. In Britain, most households are head by single mothers because many men are afraid to date them given the hostile rules against men. Even here, men are abstaining from marriage.
  • 07-13-2016, 01:44 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    In Britain, most households are head by single mothers because many men are afraid to date them given the hostile rules against men. Even here, men are abstaining from marriage.

    Oh, please do elaborate on that part.

    Y'know, just to appease the Brits on this forum.

    Thx.
  • 07-13-2016, 03:11 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    In Britain, most households are head by single mothers because many men are afraid to date them given the hostile rules against men.


    Part of the problem feeding your fears is that you seem to be getting a lot of inaccurate information. The supposed fact you presented above is just wrong. Official U.K. statistics state the following about families in the U.K. in 2014: there were 26.7 million households in the U.K., and of these 7.48 million were households of just one person, 12.5 million were married couple families, and just 1.82 million were families of dependent children with a single mother. In short, just 6.8% of all U.K. households with children were headed by a single mother. I think it is pretty obvious that 6.8% is nowhere near being “most” of the households as you assert. You can see the U.K. figures here: U.K. Families and Households

    And your assertion that somehow the U.K. is worse off than the U.S. in this regard due to “hostile rules against men” is also wrong. The U.S. in 2015 had 11.4% of households headed by a single mother; thus, the U.S. has a greater portion of households headed by a single mother than the U.K. The U.S. statistics can be found on table FG10 from the U.S. Census Bureau here: Family Groups

    You are a college student, so I hope you will learn how to do proper research to find well supported facts upon which to make your arguments rather than just spouting off things that are wrong (like your statement above) that you happened to stumble across on internet somewhere. There is a lot of bad information on the internet, and the challenge is finding the good reliable information out there and disregarding the rest.
  • 07-13-2016, 10:39 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Aw come on, Tax - I was waiting for him to tell me about my home country and fellow Brits!

    :cool:
  • 07-14-2016, 09:49 AM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    I have not been accused of anything, except by speculative people in debates. I just suspect affirmative consent might be as polarizing as the abortion issue, or at least will get some people questioning why I care. It makes me heasitant to speak out. Many whistle blowers are heasitant to speak out. An employer might see me as letigious, though likely they are more repelled by people who sue for money.


    I'm just someone worried about the direction the country is going in. The rules on college campuses will likely spread to the rest of society. In Britain, most households are head by single mothers because many men are afraid to date them given the hostile rules against men. Even here, men are abstaining from marriage.

    There is a debate forum at the very bottom of the page - that is where you would post this hypothetical stuff.
  • 08-06-2019, 05:40 PM
    nailiyatsi
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    *Like*

    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
  • 08-06-2019, 05:46 PM
    cbg
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Please do not resurrect three year old threads. If you want a discussion, please start your own thread.
  • 08-08-2019, 01:41 PM
    nailiyatsi
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting nailiyatsi
    View Post
    If people are able to give out audacity temp mail origin people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?

    it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
  • 08-08-2019, 01:48 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    This is a 3 year old thread. Please stop posting to it. If you have a question open your own thread.
  • 08-08-2019, 02:04 PM
    llworking
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Truth is a complete defense to the tort of defamation. As for whether a statement, true or not, might get the speaker into legal trouble depends very much on what is said, who said it, and the circumstances in which it is said. The free speech protection found in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is simply a guarantee against restraint of speech by the government. Note that the right of free speech even protects lies. But like all rights, the right to free speech is not absolute. The government may place certain restrictions on speech where it has a compelling interest to protect. The classic example is that is often used is that the government may make it illegal to shout “fire” in a crowded theater when, in fact, there is no fire because the resulting panic might cause significant injury or even death to the theater patrons as they scramble to get out.

    As to your first example, Jake informing Sam that Tom is a lawyer is not a crime
    . Sally telling Matthew’s boss that he gave the speech is not a crime and, if true, would not give Matthew any legal against against Sally if Matthew gets fired.

    Note that generally there is no law that protects your name, address, and phone number from disclosure by others; there are few circumstances in which that information is protected, but it is limited. Privacy rights in the U.S. are much more limited than most people seem to think it is. A newspaper may publish the name of rape victims if it wished; the right of freedom of the press and free speech enable the paper to do that. No state, so far as I am aware, has a law that tries to restrict a news outlet from doing that for that reason.

    Re the bolded: Even if Jake knows that Sam will then beat up Tom, and that was Jake's reason for telling him?
  • 08-08-2019, 02:45 PM
    L-1
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting MikeSmith321
    View Post
    Suppose Jake knows that Sam is crazy and loves to beat up lawyers. Jake hates Tom, who is a lawyer. One day, the three are at the same bus stop.

    Now just wait a minute.

    Why is Tom, who is a lawyer, at a bus stop associating with such riff-raff? If he had been riding safely in the back of his chauffeur driven limousine, paid for by well earned client fees, none of this would have happened.

    Let this be a lesson to those of you who are considering a career in pro bono.
  • 08-10-2019, 05:00 PM
    nailiyatsi
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Truth is a complete defense to the tort of defamation. As for whether a statement, true or not, might get the speaker into legal trouble depends very much on what is said, who said it, and the circumstances in which it is said. The free speech protection found in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is simply a guarantee against restraint of speech by the government. Note that the right of free speech even protects lies. But like all rights, the right to free speech is not absolute. The government may place certain restrictions on speech where it has a compelling interest to protect. The classic example is that is often used is that the government may make it illegal to shout “fire” in a crowded theater when, in fact, there is no fire because the resulting panic might cause significant injury or even death to the theater patrons as they scramble to get out.

    As to your first example, Jake informing Sam that Tom is a lawyer is not a crime. Sally telling Matthew’s boss that he gave the speech is not a crime and, if true, would not give Matthew any legal against against Sally if Matthew gets fired.

    Note that generally there is no law that protects your name, address, and phone number from disclosure by others; there are few circumstances in which that information is protected, but it is limited. Privacy rights in the U.S. are much more limited than most people seem to think it is. A newspaper may publish the name of rape victims if it wished; the right of freedom of the press and free speech enable the paper to do that. No state, so far as I am aware, has a law that tries to restrict a news outlet from doing that for that reason.

    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
  • 08-10-2019, 07:28 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Re the bolded: Even if Jake knows that Sam will then beat up Tom, and that was Jake's reason for telling him?

    That would depend on the applicable state law, and of course the state's ability to prove that Jake's reason was to incite Sam to beat up Tom. But in general the Supreme Court has held that free speech rights even applies to statements that might provoke a mob, as long as the speaker is not urging the crowd to commit imminent violence against others.

    Quote:

    Quoting L-1
    View Post
    Why is Tom, who is a lawyer, at a bus stop associating with such riff-raff? If he had been riding safely in the back of his chauffeur driven limousine, paid for by well earned client fees, none of this would have happened.

    If you truly think that most successful lawyers make enough to afford chauffer driven limosines then you truly don't know much about how much most lawyers make. On average, lawyers earn less than doctors, and you don't see may doctors rolling around in limos. Whatever you think of lawyers, at least get your facts right. ;)

    Quote:

    Quoting nailiyatsi
    View Post
    I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?

    Yes, the media could report the names of rape victims if they wished. It is not illegal to do so, and a law making that illegal would run into First Amendment problems.
  • 08-13-2019, 08:10 AM
    nailiyatsi
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    Quote:

    Quoting nailiyatsi
    View Post
    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. I xender discord omegle n this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?

    Truth is a complete defense to the tort of defamation. As for whether a statement, true or not, might get the speaker into legal trouble depends very much on what is said, who said it, and the circumstances in which it is said. The free speech protection found in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is simply a guarantee against restraint of speech by the government. Note that the right of free speech even protects lies. But like all rights, the right to free speech is not absolute. The government may place certain restrictions on speech where it has a compelling interest to protect. The classic example is that is often used is that the government may make it illegal to shout “fire” in a crowded theater when, in fact, there is no fire because the resulting panic might cause significant injury or even death to the theater patrons as they scramble to get out.
  • 08-13-2019, 08:18 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: Is Truth Ever Not a Defense to Free Speech
    I can't believe nailiyatsi hasn't been banned.
  • 08-24-2019, 11:34 AM
    amekassa43
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    So if I threatened to put my kids in their bedrooms unless they quit screaming it would be illegal?

    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
  • 08-24-2019, 11:47 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting amekassa43
    View Post
    If people are able to give out people's home address, name, or other info to strike fear into them and others who would speak out on controversial issues, that could cause a chilling effect against others exercising their freedom of speech. In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal? I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?

    I'm going to guess that you are nailiyatsi under a new user name. Again, please don't just quote a post (in this case one by nailiyatsi) as your post, like you did here. The question that nailiyatsi (you?) asked has already been answered.
  • 08-24-2019, 02:54 PM
    RJR
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting amekassa43
    View Post
    In this case, it giving the truth about someone's identity ever a tort or illegal?

    It can be, yes. As one example, in Ohio it is a criminal offense to publish or communicate publicly a police office's home address by certain persons.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.24

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.25v1

    Quote:

    I read that reporters voluntarily do not publish the names of rape victims, but does that mean they could do so if they wanted to?
    Of course they can by law, individual media publication policies may or may not permit it, the same with juveniles arrested.
  • 08-25-2019, 12:11 PM
    DENIMKATY
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting cidsongs@gmail.com
    View Post
    Maybe malitious intent to damage ones charecter or harrassment

    Can Jake claim truth as a defense to any legal repercussion? Surely if someone told a crook where a home owner keeps a spare key, that would be illegal.
  • 08-25-2019, 12:16 PM
    eerelations
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting DENIMKATY
    View Post
    Surely if someone told a crook where a home owner keeps a spare key, that would be illegal.

    If you tell me where you keep your spare house key, I am legally free to tell anyone I choose to, unless I have entered into a legally-binding, enforceable and (usually) written confidentiality agreement with you that spells out to whom I can or cannot divulge this information. No agreement as described = no illegalities.
  • 08-25-2019, 12:24 PM
    free9man
    Re: Can You Sue for Defamation Over a True Statement
    Quote:

    Quoting eerelations
    View Post
    If you tell me where you keep your spare house key, I am legally free to tell anyone I choose to, unless I have entered into a legally-binding, enforceable and (usually) written confidentiality agreement with you that spells out to whom I can or cannot divulge this information. No agreement as described = no illegalities.

    That's just a spammer who copy/paste something someone else said in the thread.
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