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Employer Gave Different Reasons for Termination to Employee Than to Unemployment

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  • 06-15-2016, 05:22 PM
    wykethiaalston@gmail.com
    Employer Gave Different Reasons for Termination to Employee Than to Unemployment
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Georgia

    Company: Insurance

    I was written up in November and December for not meeting department goals. Starting January up til my termination at end of March my work had improved. 2 weeks prior to termination I had a customer transferred to my by another department. The customer was severely irate but within good reasons. I advise customer from beginning of call he need to speak with his agent I was unable to discuss policy questions. The customer continue to belittle me and demanded I put someone on phone who could help him. I ask who he would like to speak with he said not you so put somebody else on the phone. I sarcastically said please. Well my manager whom I have never gotten along with and have complained on several times did a silent monitor of that call. He called me into office to tell me I was rude and unhelpful to the customer and yelling. I never yelled at the customer and told him from the beginning he needed to speak with agent I couldn't answer any policy questions. We discussed the call further and I was excused back to work. Unfortunately a week later because of another incident with manager I reported him to HR again. A week later I was brought in office to advise I was being fired for not meeting department goals. I received my termination letter it says "not meeting job requirements". I call the HR rep back to get clarification. He said though my work had improved it still wasn't good enough. However, when the claims examiner call for interview she said the company told her I was fired for the phone call that had happened 2weeks prior. That was company violation. I was shocked because that was the first time I had heard that. In my talk with manager there was no discussion of termination or any kinda write up. So my UI was denied. Is this possible ?
  • 06-15-2016, 05:27 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Quote:

    Quoting wykethiaalston@gmail.com
    View Post
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Georgia

    Company: Insurance



    I was written up in November and December for not meeting department goals. Starting January up til my termination at end of March my work had improved. 2 weeks prior to termination I had a customer transferred to my by another department. The customer was severely irate but within good reasons. I advise customer from beginning of call he need to speak with his agent I was unable to discuss policy questions. The customer continue to belittle me and demanded I put someone on phone who could help him. I ask who he would like to speak with he said not you so put somebody else on the phone. I sarcastically said please. Well my manager whom I have never gotten along with and have complained on several times did a silent monitor of that call. He called me into office to tell me I was rude and unhelpful to the customer and yelling. I never yelled at the customer and told him from the beginning he needed to speak with agent I couldn't answer any policy questions. We discussed the call further and I was excused back to work. Unfortunately a week later because of another incident with manager I reported him to HR again. A week later I was brought in office to advise I was being fired for not meeting department goals. I received my termination letter it says "not meeting job requirements". I call the HR rep back to get clarification. He said though my work had improved it still wasn't good enough. However, when the claims examiner call for interview she said the company told her I was fired for the phone call that had happened 2weeks prior. That was company violation. I was shocked because that was the first time I had heard that. In my talk with manager there was no discussion of termination or any kinda write up. So my UI was denied. Is this possible ?

    It's obviously possible because it happened.

    Appealing can't hurt you. Go ahead and appeal.
  • 06-15-2016, 09:11 PM
    chyvan
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Just know that at this phase you are REQUESTING an appeal, not actually writing a novel to try and prove your case. "The determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled," is sufficient.
  • 06-15-2016, 09:51 PM
    wykethiaalston@gmail.com
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Quote:

    Quoting chyvan
    View Post
    Just know that at this phase you are REQUESTING an appeal, not actually writing a novel to try and prove your case. "The determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled," is sufficient.




    I have an appeal scheduled already. I'm wanting help on what my chances are
    for winning appeal.
  • 06-15-2016, 11:51 PM
    chyvan
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Because you're in GA, I'm going to say not that great, but you still need to try.

    The employer saying one thing to you on your way out the door, and another thing to UI, doesn't mean anything as long as they've been consistent with what they said to the UI people from the beginning and can back it up, or you admitted to it.

    As an example, a claimant from MA was "laid off and given a severance package." He thought he had his UI in the bag. The employer said they only gave him the severance package so that he'd quietly leave the building and that he was fired for discussing a patient with someone he had no business saying anything to (he was a nurse.) He was denied in the initial determination, and his protestations that he was laid off and had a severance to back it up, didn't make any difference.

    Mind you, that he did win on appeal, but not because of the severance or laid off argument, but because the employer showed up with a hearsay witness. Neither the person he was discussing the patient with nor the other person that overheard the conversation and did the tattling were at the hearing, and the employer lost because they couldn't meet their burden of proof that he'd done anything wrong.
  • 06-16-2016, 06:15 AM
    free9man
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Quote:

    Quoting chyvan
    View Post
    Because you're in GA, I'm going to say not that great, but you still need to try.

    The employer saying one thing to you on your way out the door, and another thing to UI, doesn't mean anything as long as they've been consistent with what they said to the UI people from the beginning and can back it up, or you admitted to it.

    As an example, a claimant from MA was "laid off and given a severance package." He thought he had his UI in the bag. The employer said they only gave him the severance package so that he'd quietly leave the building and that he was fired for discussing a patient with someone he had no business saying anything to (he was a nurse.) He was denied in the initial determination, and his protestations that he was laid off and had a severance to back it up, didn't make any difference.

    Mind you, that he did win on appeal, but not because of the severance or laid off argument, but because the employer showed up with a hearsay witness. Neither the person he was discussing the patient with nor the other person that overheard the conversation and did the tattling were at the hearing, and the employer lost because they couldn't meet their burden of proof that he'd done anything wrong.

    Got an example from GA cause what happens in MA has no bearing on what might happen in GA.

    OP, I have had to appeal unemployment denials 2x in GA. Both times I never should have had to appeal but I was approved on appeal so you never know. That call could bite you in the butt cause every call center I've ever heard of, smarting off to a caller is usually grounds for corrective action up and including termination. Whether it would rise to the level of misconduct that an appeal officer would deny you, I can't say. Did your numbers stay good after you improved them or was there any backslide?
  • 06-16-2016, 07:12 AM
    wykethiaalston@gmail.com
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    Quote:

    Quoting free9man
    View Post
    Got an example from GA cause what happens in MA has no bearing on what might happen in GA.

    OP, I have had to appeal unemployment denials 2x in GA. Both times I never should have had to appeal but I was approved on appeal so you never know. That call could bite you in the butt cause every call center I've ever heard of, smarting off to a caller is usually grounds for corrective action up and including termination. Whether it would rise to the level of misconduct that an appeal officer would deny you, I can't say. Did your numbers stay good after you improved them or was there any backslide?




    My numbers were good up til termination day that can be proven however they only turned in my past work performance not present. The call was recorded however, I we reviewed the call nothing was spoken about being terminated not was I written up. He let me go back to work. Now my manager at that time was leaving to go to another department so we had a manager in training in there with us. He advise that the call was not really worth bringing me in the office for. He gave corrective criticism and that was it as for as that phone call goes. It wasn't until the UI claims examiner call and verified why I was fired. I never said I yelled at a customer I said my manager said I yelled at the customer so I didn't agree. The company turned in my write ups and past work scores but turned in nothing on that phone call.

    The company turned in my past work performance and write ups to UI office but nothing on the phone call they fired me. I did receive severance package as well. But again I was fired 2weeks after that phone call and conversation with the manager.
  • 06-16-2016, 07:34 AM
    comment/ator
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    What you do is go into the appeal and tell them exactly what you have told us here. In that what you were told at your termination was that you were being terminated for being rude during a telephone call with a client, two weeks after the fact. That you were not given any warnings or write ups concerning this incident, and another manager commented that the call was not worth bringing up. But that when you talked to Joe Blow, your manager on the day you were terminated, this was the reason he gave you for your termination. Then you discuss your performance issues, stressing that your performance was actually improving since your last write up. Throw in the phrase that you always did your job to the best of your abilities, that you had actually improved your performance, and that you always did your best.

    It sounds like your termination reason has become quite jumbled, and hopefully you can help the appeals referee sort it all out in the hearing. Keep in mind that to terminate with cause for performance issues, the employer is supposed to be able to show that they had given you sufficient feedback about your performance, that you had the capability to meet the performance goals that had been set for you and that fully knowing that you were expected to do this, and being fully capable of meeting the goals, which were reasonable (not something like selling two vacuum cleaners every day) you deliberately chose NOT to perform up to standards.

    In the hearing, do not accuse your employer of lying. No, you cannot sue him. They work with the assumption that one or both of the parties involved may be lying. Your stories may differ, but you stick with what you were told on the day you were terminated was the reason why you were being terminated. You emphasize how you had had no recent warnings about performance and that you were actually improving your performance when you were called in and told you were being terminated for another issue..etc.

    Do not stop making the weekly certifications for benefits while you are waiting for the appeal. If you are approved in the second appeal you will be back paid for weeks you have certified for only.
  • 06-16-2016, 08:59 AM
    hr for me
    Re: Fired and Unemployment
    If I were the employer however, I would argue that the reason you were given "not meeting job requirements" in your termination letter was an overall reason (we have a standard 6-8 that we use) and that the phone call when reviewing your performance (you hadn't gotten better if right before you were terminated, you were rude to a customer and they have it on tape) was the final evidence that fell under that reason and that is what HR stated. Not that the reason changed, just that it was more specific when you pressed the matter.

    Who usually reviewed your performance? What was said in December on when they would review you again?

    You might have some luck in the fact that they didn't immediately fire you after that phone call though. But it might also depend on what you were told back in November and December.

    Definitely appeal though and give them the information you gave us.
  • 06-20-2016, 03:52 PM
    Rccola2205
    Re: Employer Gave Different Reasons for Termination to Employee Than to Unemployment
    I have a question and couldn't start a new thread so if anyone could answer it that'd be great

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: RHODE ISLAND

    I was fired for a an alleged HIPPA violation. After an unemployment appeal hearing it was determined with evidence that I did not violate HIPPA and my unemployment benefits proceeded to go through. Today I got a letter from my former employer stating they changed my reason of termination to gross insubordination.

    My question is can they go after my benefits now that they've decided I was fired for this and not what they told unemployment at the hearing? Them sending me the letter within the 15 days has me worried that they're going to try to appeal the decision to award me benefits. I'm wondering if this will be taken seriously? I'm feeling singled out and harassed on this matter since this has not happened to anyone else who has been terminated and I have a lengthy story of why I am being targeted but can they legally change the reason of my termination and go after me after I was already approved earlier this month?
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