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If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable

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  • 06-03-2016, 10:06 PM
    disquisitive
    If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: WA

    If one pays an invoice in person with cash, gets a receipt, and one of the $100 bills he paid with is found to be counterfeit (unknowingly to the payer), is he required by law to give the business another $100?
  • 06-04-2016, 02:57 AM
    budwad
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Short answer is yes you still owe $100.

    If you knowingly possess or use counterfeit money with criminal intent, it is a Federal and in many states, a crime. If the bill was counterfeit, you should expect a call from the US Secret Service or local police to find out where you got it.
  • 06-04-2016, 04:29 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting disquisitive
    View Post
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: WA

    If one pays an invoice in person with cash, gets a receipt, and one of the $100 bills he paid with is found to be counterfeit (unknowingly to the payer), is he required by law to give the business another $100?

    Of course. If you paid with a check that you thought was good, got a receipt, and the check bounced you would still owe the amount of the check because you breached your contract with the seller by failing to pay him/her the agreed upon amount. If you paid with a credit card you thought was good and the credit card was declined afterwards because you exceeded your limit, or whatever, you would still owe the seller the amount of the declined charge because you breached the contract by failing to pay him/her the agreed upon amount. Same thing with the counterfeit bill. You breached the contract with the seller by failing to pay $100 of the agreed upon amount and the seller can come after you for that. Getting a receipt does not shield you from this sort of claim; it is not the seller’s fault the bill you gave him/her was bad and he or she has the right to expect to get from you the full amount you agreed to pay.
  • 06-04-2016, 04:38 AM
    free9man
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    If you knowingly possess or use counterfeit money with criminal intent, it is a Federal and in many states, a crime. If the bill was counterfeit, you should expect a call from the US Secret Service or local police to find out where you got it.

    A single bill isn't likely to get the attention of the USSS, depending on the quality.
  • 06-04-2016, 12:26 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting free9man
    View Post
    A single bill isn't likely to get the attention of the USSS, depending on the quality.


    It might. Where there is one bill, there are usually others. If the bill was good enough to fool at least two people (the OP and the seller) that suggests it may be good enough to concern the Secret Service. They take counterfeiting pretty seriously.
  • 06-18-2016, 10:05 PM
    disquisitive
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Assuming that the payer was unaware that the bill was counterfeit, he might well wonder if the counterfeit bill now in possession of the business had in fact come from him, and request some proof. How could the business supply this?
  • 06-18-2016, 10:55 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting disquisitive
    View Post
    Assuming that the payer was unaware that the bill was counterfeit, he might well wonder if the counterfeit bill now in possession of the business had in fact come from him, and request some proof. How could the business supply this?

    All the payee would have is the counterfeit bill and his testimony about where it came from. But that can be good enough to win in court.

    This kind of thing is one of several reasons why using some form of payment other than cash is the better way to go if the purchase amount is significant.
  • 06-18-2016, 11:27 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Most law enforcement agencies will forward the stolen bill to the Secret Service as they like to catalog these bills, but it is exceedingly rare for them to take any active part in an investigation unless the person doing the passing is part of some HUGE counterfeiting scheme, or the bill is a cog in a much larger counterfeiting operation in another state or country. I have seen cases involving as much as $10,000 in counterfeit bills receive little more than a request from the USSS asking that any reports be forwarded to them. Never a visit or active investigation.
  • 06-19-2016, 04:15 AM
    llworking
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting disquisitive
    View Post
    Assuming that the payer was unaware that the bill was counterfeit, he might well wonder if the counterfeit bill now in possession of the business had in fact come from him, and request some proof. How could the business supply this?

    Most businesses that are cash based or partially cash based would be unable to even identify WHO paid them with the counterfeit bill. They might have a security camera showing the person physically (maybe even then they might not be certain who it was) but its unlikely they would have the person's name.

    Even in our business where we have everybody's name and social we couldn't tell you for sure which client gave us a counterfeit bill. Enough people pay us in cash that it would be impossible.
  • 06-19-2016, 05:26 AM
    free9man
    Re: If a Counterfeit Bill is Used Unknowingly to Pay an Invoice, is the Payer Liable
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post

    If the bill was good enough to fool at least two people (the OP and the seller) that suggests it may be good enough to concern the Secret Service. They take counterfeiting pretty seriously.

    Hence why I said in my post, "depending on the quality." I used to have to deal with counterfeit bills and would report them to the USSS. Their response was almost always "not interested" if it was a single bill. The only time they ever showed interest was when I was able to identify a ring of people passing them.
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