Teenager Wants to Cancel a Weekend Visit

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Ohio

I am the CP of 2 teenage boys. The NCP has traditional visitation (every other weekend and occasional holiday) He never gets on the extra days if there is a 3 day weekend he only keeps them 2 days. He never takes them for the three weeks in summer or over long breaks for winter or spring break. He often cancels due to lack of funds for gas or food. I don't complain because I love it when my boys are around. I have many times called the NCP and discussed these missed days to encourage him not to miss for his sake...not mine. He does not care if the boys cancel for a school function, functions that he never attends. Both the boys are pretty easy going and very non-confrontational. He has, of late, started to become started to become very much against my religion. The same religion he was in the entire time we were married. He will not allow the boys to cancel for anything resembling a religious get -together or function. Granted it does not happen very often maybe 3x a year at most. My oldest, 16 years old, is taking a religious stand on his own. He cancelled to go to a religious function and asked if he could switch weekends. The switched weekend option was refused and then said he would come down to get my younger son. He never showed.The NCP threw a fit more than I can say online or to my kids. He demanded this of his own free will and without my demanding it (although I did talk him through it at his request and he asked several friends and family members for advise) The boys hate cancelling because they love their father and don't want to miss weekends especially since he usually does stuff that I don't with them like opening night of movies in the theatre.

What rights do my teenage boys, 16 & 14, have to cancel the occasional weekend for a serious event, not parties and joy riding with friends but something that he considers more important than anything else.

They don't.

Minors (those under age 18) do what their parent or guardian tells them to do. They don’t have a right to decide for themselves where they will live or where they will stay at any particular time. While the kids are not a party to the court order and the kids cannot be sanctioned by the court for saying they refuse to go, YOU are bound by the order and if you don’t them go for the court-ordered visitation you certainly could be sanctioned by the court. Would that likely happen for just one missed weekend? Probably not, especially as the NCP hasn’t been diligent on keeping visitation on other weekends. But it is nevertheless a possibility and I encourage you to speak to your family law attorney about how this might play out in the court that would hear his contempt request.

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What rights do my teenage boys, 16 & 14, have to cancel the occasional weekend

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None. They are minors. They do what they are told, when they are told.

If you have been giving them even the slightest idea that they have any choice, then you are the problem and not your ex.

You need to sit down with your boys and teach them the facts of life, that YOU are bound by the court order and if they cancel then YOU can be held in contempt and penalized.

Why do you put your CHILDREN in the middle of adult discussions? YOU should be having this discussions in this situation. And yes, I am an attorney and GAL in Ohio. Your religious reasons are NOT reasons to put off the NCP.

And Ohio does not have a standard visitation plan. Each county has its own. In what county are you located?

I do not put my children in the middle of disagreements between me and their dad. I go to great lengths to keep them out of it and encourage a strong respectful relationship with their father.

In this instance I was dragged in the middle of my sons disagreement with his father. I bought my son a cell phone so his dad had 24/7 unfettered access to the boys. My son came to me and said he was having a disagreement and was frustrated before I knew anything was being said or requested. He told me that his dad was refusing his request because of something that had happened in a completely different country that had nothing to do with us or the situation. He was irritated because he knew if he lied and said it was to go to a comicon his dad would have let him stay home no question but it was about religion and for that reason alone he would not let him. I asked him how important this event was to him and my son said it was extremely important. I told him to explain that to him in the most respectful way possible. This has happened before and my son refused to come out of the house and when his dad came to pick him up I gave my ex access to my house and told him to talk to him in his bedroom. I did not hinder visitation in any way except to support my son in his decision. I'm not ashamed to have raised a son that is as responsible and willing to respectfully stand up for something that is bigger than him teaching others the bible instead of partying or using drugs like other kids in his class. My question then is not how do I keep my kids on the NCP's weekend. My question was what right does my teenage son have to cancel only once or twice a year for good wholesome reason

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Quoting CPmom

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My question was what right does my teenage son have to cancel only once or twice a year for good wholesome reason

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Zero. Zip. Nada.

Thank you. That is good to know. However I will still support my son when he chooses to stand up for something he believes strongly in. I did it for my oldest son that stood up against me for his own beliefs that were different than mine. I can do it for the two that are still at home. I will take my chances and if they get called before a judge they will be able to argue their own case. I am proud of my boys.

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Quoting CPmom

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Thank you. That is good to know. However I will still support my son when he chooses to stand up for something he believes strongly in. I did it for my oldest son that stood up against me for his own beliefs that were different than mine. I can do it for the two that are still at home. I will take my chances and if they get called before a judge they will be able to argue their own case. I am proud of my boys.

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What happens if you are found in contempt for that then? When they refuse to go on a visit? You plan to let them argue before the judge? You are totally going to get ripped apart by the court if dad decides to take you back to court on a motion to show cause. Quite a few of the counties I work in would actually put you in jail.

Then that is the chance I will have to take. Like I said before, My son is not refusing in order to attend a party and just hang out with his friends all weekend or even because he doesn't like his dad (He loves his father dearly and cares about what his father thinks about him) and this is at most 2 or 3 times a year. Not every weekend. If it were any of those things I would not support him. My son is not asking for anything unreasonable and he feels strongly enough about it to argue with someone that he loves desperately and wants to be proud of. It wasn't easy for him to have this struggle with his father but he did it out of strong conviction. So yes, If a judge decides for that that I need to spend some time in jail, I will do it. My son will know that as long as it is for the right reasons, I have his back no matter what or against whom. I have no problem standing up to a judge and saying this is my son of strong convictions and I support him. It's unfortunate that his father does not feel the same way.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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What happens if you are found in contempt for that then? When they refuse to go on a visit? You plan to let them argue before the judge? You are totally going to get ripped apart by the court if dad decides to take you back to court on a motion to show cause. Quite a few of the counties I work in would actually put you in jail.

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Let's not forget that dad is not following the order to the letter either. He would be an idiot to go to court over this.

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Quoting CPmom

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I do not put my children in the middle of disagreements between me and their dad. I go to great lengths to keep them out of it and encourage a strong respectful relationship with their father.

In this instance I was dragged in the middle of my sons disagreement with his father. I bought my son a cell phone so his dad had 24/7 unfettered access to the boys. My son came to me and said he was having a disagreement and was frustrated before I knew anything was being said or requested. He told me that his dad was refusing his request because of something that had happened in a completely different country that had nothing to do with us or the situation. He was irritated because he knew if he lied and said it was to go to a comicon his dad would have let him stay home no question but it was about religion and for that reason alone he would not let him. I asked him how important this event was to him and my son said it was extremely important. I told him to explain that to him in the most respectful way possible. This has happened before and my son refused to come out of the house and when his dad came to pick him up I gave my ex access to my house and told him to talk to him in his bedroom. I did not hinder visitation in any way except to support my son in his decision. I'm not ashamed to have raised a son that is as responsible and willing to respectfully stand up for something that is bigger than him teaching others the bible instead of partying or using drugs like other kids in his class. My question then is not how do I keep my kids on the NCP's weekend. My question was what right does my teenage son have to cancel only once or twice a year for good wholesome reason

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Here is the problem. You do not have the legal right to support your son's decision...because your son has no legal right to make a decision. Your response to your son should have been "I am sorry, but if your father says no then the answer is no".

That is not how I necessarily feel personally in all cases, but it is legal reality. To be perfectly honest, if dad were to file for contempt and you were to say "I did not hinder visitation in any way except to support my son in his decision." the judge would find you in contempt so fast you would never know what hit you.

I do feel that non custodial parents should be flexible with teens when things are really important to the teen because eventually that teen is going to be 18, and the custodial parent should want a solid, long term, adult relationship with their child. However again, that is not legal reality.

The Bible says you are to obey your mother and father. Why should your son have to go before a Judge to argue anything ? You and his father are the ones that are under a court order.

The Bible also says you are to obey laws. What kind of example are you setting for your sons when you don't obey a court order because someone disagrees with it ?

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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The Bible says you are to obey your mother and father. Why should your son have to go before a Judge to argue anything ? You and his father are the ones that are under a court order.

The Bible also says you are to obey laws. What kind of example are you setting for your sons when you don't obey a court order because someone disagrees with it ?

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You make an excellent point. Absolutely a faithful Christian should obey the letter of the law for 1 Peter 2:13 says "For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation, whether to a king as being superior or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers but to praise those who do good." However, there comes a time when men's laws can interfere with God's laws. For Example the Bible states at Hebrews 10:25 to not forsake the gathering together as some have the custom but to encourage one another. SO what have the boys done with this contradiction between their father and themselves now a large meeting that only happens once a year is taking place on their fathers weekend? My son, who has learned from examples like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, has decided of his own fruition that this is an event he would like to not forsake. The bible encourages at Acts 5:29 if we are to follow the Apostle Peters example "In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.". My son asked if he could offer to make up the weekends by going several weekends in a row before the event or after the event not only making up the missed weekend but adding some additional weekends (out of my time) as well. I encourage conviction in all my children as long as they can back it up with sound reasoning and logic. I think the boys are being quite fair in their efforts and try their best at respect. It's a shame that their father can't see that he taught them that as well and they are following his example as well as mine.

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Quoting CPmom

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You make an excellent point. Absolutely a faithful Christian should obey the letter of the law for 1 Peter 2:13 says "For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation, whether to a king as being superior or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers but to praise those who do good." However, there comes a time when men's laws can interfere with God's laws. For Example the Bible states at Hebrews 10:25 to not forsake the gathering together as some have the custom but to encourage one another. SO what have the boys done with this contradiction between their father and themselves now a large meeting that only happens once a year is taking place on their fathers weekend? My son, who has learned from examples like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, has decided of his own fruition that this is an event he would like to not forsake. The bible encourages at Acts 5:29 if we are to follow the Apostle Peters example "In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.". My son asked if he could offer to make up the weekends by going several weekends in a row before the event or after the event not only making up the missed weekend but adding some additional weekends (out of my time) as well. I encourage conviction in all my children as long as they can back it up with sound reasoning and logic. I think the boys are being quite fair in their efforts and try their best at respect. It's a shame that their father can't see that he taught them that as well and they are following his example as well as mine.

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It helps that dad was offered makeup time. Its still no guarantee that you will not get into trouble, but it helps. However, if you have never been in court for contempt before now, you would not go to jail. You might however, get a stiff fine.

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Quoting llworking

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It helps that dad was offered makeup time. Its still no guarantee that you will not get into trouble, but it helps. However, if you have never been in court for contempt before now, you would not go to jail. You might however, get a stiff fine.

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Please don't say this. I know quite a few counties that the FIRST TIME someone is found in contempt, they will sentence the parent to jail in Ohio. Summit, Portage, Medina, Wayne, Mahoning, Columbiana, Cuyahoga. I could continue... We don't know where is located. DO NOT state she would NOT go to jail.

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Quoting budwad

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Let's not forget that dad is not following the order to the letter either. He would be an idiot to go to court over this.

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If you're talking about dad's not fully exercising every day of his visitation, that's not a violation of the order and, even if it were, it does not excuse mom's willful and intentional disregard of the order.

If mom believes that these religious events are so important that the children should be allowed to attend them instead of going on their scheduled visits with dad, mom should file a petition with the custody court and try to convince the judge that the order should be so modified.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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If you're talking about dad's not fully exercising every day of his visitation, that's not a violation of the order and, even if it were, it does not excuse mom's willful and intentional disregard of the order.

If mom believes that these religious events are so important that the children should be allowed to attend them instead of going on their scheduled visits with dad, mom should file a petition with the custody court and try to convince the judge that the order should be so modified.

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That is very interesting. Mom has to follow the letter of the order but dad doesn't. There are two things wrong with that. First, child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

And second, mom can't count on when the children will be with the NCP so she can make her own plans. She is subject to the whims of the father but yet she is the one that is accountable.

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Quoting budwad

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That is very interesting. Mom has to follow the letter of the order but dad doesn't. There are two things wrong with that. First, child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

And second, mom can't count on when the children will be with the NCP so she can make her own plans. She is subject to the whims of the father but yet she is the one that is accountable.

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Supporting your child is an obligation. Seeing your child is not.

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Quoting budwad

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That is very interesting. Mom has to follow the letter of the order but dad doesn't. There are two things wrong with that. First, child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

And second, mom can't count on when the children will be with the NCP so she can make her own plans. She is subject to the whims of the father but yet she is the one that is accountable.

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One more thing. Mom can make plans for the weekends SHE has, and these would not be dependent on whether or not the children are present. Besides, the children LIVE with her.

Do your sons understand that if you are jailed for contempt of court they will end up living with Dad?

For that matter, do you understand that?

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Quoting budwad

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That is very interesting. Mom has to follow the letter of the order but dad doesn't. There are two things wrong with that. First, child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

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If mom believes she has grounds to petition for modification of child support, she is free to bring a motion to modify support. That does not excuse her willful and deliberate violation of the custody order.

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Quoting budwad

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And second, mom can't count on when the children will be with the NCP so she can make her own plans. She is subject to the whims of the father but yet she is the one that is accountable.

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If mom finds the current arrangement to be unpredictable or difficult, she is free to seek to petition the court to modify the visitation schedule. That does not excuse her willful and deliberate violation of the custody order.

It's just so easy to tell one parent or the other to go back to court for a change in a custody order when they are not following the present one as it is. OK, I get the gist of what we can say here. But the truth is that a simple motion for reconsideration cost big bucks and they are not likely to do that over a missed visitation. That is the reality. They should work it out between themselves.

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Quoting budwad

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It's just so easy to tell one parent or the other to go back to court for a change in a custody order when they are not following the present one as it is. OK, I get the gist of what we can say here. But the truth is that a simple motion for reconsideration cost big bucks and they are not likely to do that over a missed visitation. That is the reality. They should work it out between themselves.

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Big bucks? Really?

http://www.ja.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_ja/en-US/Motion.pdf

(The parent would not be looking for a reconsideration - they're looking to modify)

That is if it is pro se. Hire you attorney and it is between $1500-2000 and that is if it goes smoothly.

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Quoting budwad

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That is if it is pro se. Hire you attorney and it is between $1500-2000 and that is if it goes smoothly.

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You're reaching, bud ...

Your concerns about the inequities of the current system may be deserving of an item of their own, but they don't belong in this thread.

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Quoting budwad

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That is very interesting. Mom has to follow the letter of the order but dad doesn't. There are two things wrong with that. First, child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

And second, mom can't count on when the children will be with the NCP so she can make her own plans. She is subject to the whims of the father but yet she is the one that is accountable.

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You are incorrect about child support in Ohio.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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You are incorrect about child support in Ohio.

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What is incorrect about what I posted? All I said about child support was:

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Quoting budwad

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child support payments take into consideration the amount of time that a NCP will have the children and take care of their needs. If he fails to take the children 26 days of the year that would have an impact on support.

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3119.24 Shared parenting order child support provisions.

(A)

(1) A court that issues a shared parenting order in accordance with section 3109.04 of the Revised Code shall order an amount of child support to be paid under the child support order that is calculated in accordance with the schedule and with the worksheet set forth in section 3119.022 of the Revised Code, through the line establishing the actual annual obligation, except that, if that amount would be unjust or inappropriate to the children or either parent and would not be in the best interest of the child because of the extraordinary circumstances of the parents or because of any other factors or criteria set forth in section 3119.23 of the Revised Code, the court may deviate from that amount.

(2) The court shall consider extraordinary circumstances and other factors or criteria if it deviates from the amount described in division (A)(1) of this section and shall enter in the journal the amount described in division (A)(1) of this section its determination that the amount would be unjust or inappropriate and would not be in the best interest of the child, and findings of fact supporting its determination.


(B) For the purposes of this section, "extraordinary circumstances of the parents" includes all of the following:

(1) The amount of time the children spend with each parent;

(2) The ability of each parent to maintain adequate housing for the children;

(3) Each parent's expenses, including child care expenses, school tuition, medical expenses, dental expenses, and any other expenses the court considers relevant;

(4) Any other circumstances the court considers relevant.


Effective Date: 03-22-2001

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You are quoting language pertaining to deviation from the child support formula, not its application. Deviations are not common.

I understand that Aaron, I don't want to be argumentative. I'm only pointing out that what is good for goose is good for the gander. If Mom has to go back to court for a violation of the order because she is not compelling her son to go to Dad's, she has her own issues against the father.

None of the issues you have raised involve his violating a custody order or engaging in contempt of court. Let's not confuse apples with oranges.

I will say that this has been an interesting thread. I really posted to see if I would have a valid argument for my kids to offer when they cancel. I see that I have no ammunition in this respect when it comes to a personal disagreement between the kids and their Dad. I really have not considered a modification before because up until the past year it has never been an issue and last year theses events (that do not fall on the same dates every year) did not fall on his weekend. I was, albeit, reluctanctly, willing to give him his weekend until my boys spoke up and said "no".

I will admit that I am not worried about going to court, not because he doesn't have the legal right based on this thread, but because their Dad doesn't want to risk raising them. He is bipolar with PTSD and cannot handle the boys, even as teenagers, for more than two days (or on party holidays). He would not run the risk of throwing me into jail that would even run the risk of them living with him. Otherwise I would have called an attorney directly instead of posting on a forum. I may yet do the modification when I have extra funds to save the argument. This is very distressing to the kids for them to fight with their Dad. To be honest I hadn't considered it mostly because I had certain rights as a teenager when my parents were divorced and I assumed, incorrectly obviously, that those rights were still there for my kids. I do appreciate everyone's comments.

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Quoting CPmom

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This is very distressing to the kids for them to fight with their Dad.

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Then why not simply them that you're going to follow the court order, such that it's not their fight. It's not their fault that you shifted the issue onto them, nor is that appropriate.

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Quoting CPmom

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To be honest I hadn't considered it mostly because I had certain rights as a teenager when my parents were divorced and I assumed, incorrectly obviously, that those rights were still there for my kids.

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The kids' rights haven't changed. It's actually that your parents were able to handle this issue maturely and not put you into the middle, while you and your ex- are not.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Then why not simply them that you're going to follow the court order, such that it's not their fight. It's not their fault that you shifted the issue onto them, nor is that appropriate.

The kids' rights haven't changed. It's actually that your parents were able to handle this issue maturely and not put you into the middle, while you and your ex- are not.

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First of all, I was prepared to follow the court order. I think what I am trying to explain is that my children brought this to me, not the other way around. I said to them that this his weekend and it is up to him to give permission. The boys are the ones fighting to stay for a single weekend. I did NOT ask them to ask their father. The last time I went through this there there had already been a big blow-up between my son and his father before I was even aware they were asking to stay home. Please do not forget my question was what right do MY CHILDREN have to request to miss one visit. Not what right do I have. I am not putting my children in the middle of my disputes. This is my children's fight - not mine. I have taken it upon myself to talk to their Dad and suggested he take make-up weekends considering how strongly the boys felt. My one son even threatened that if his Dad wouldn't allow him to worship the way he, my son, felt was right that he would disown his father due to the fights they were having. He was being a bit dramatic as teenagers can be but it shows his own conviction not mine. His request to stay home. Not mine. I am asking about my children's right to a request - not mine.

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Quoting CPmom

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First of all, I was prepared to follow the court order. I think what I am trying to explain is that my children brought this to me, not the other way around. I said to them that this his weekend and it is up to him to give permission. The boys are the ones fighting to stay for a single weekend. I did NOT ask them to ask their father. The last time I went through this there there had already been a big blow-up between my son and his father before I was even aware they were asking to stay home. Please do not forget my question was what right do MY CHILDREN have to request to miss one visit. Not what right do I have. I am not putting my children in the middle of my disputes. This is my children's fight - not mine. I have taken it upon myself to talk to their Dad and suggested he take make-up weekends considering how strongly the boys felt. My one son even threatened that if his Dad wouldn't allow him to worship the way he, my son, felt was right that he would disown his father due to the fights they were having. He was being a bit dramatic as teenagers can be but it shows his own conviction not mine. His request to stay home. Not mine. I am asking about my children's right to a request - not mine.

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The children have the right to request anything. They do not, however, have the right to decide their own visitation schedule.

And when your son so blatantly disrespected his other parent, what consequences did he face?

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Quoting CPmom

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What rights do my teenage boys, 16 & 14, have to cancel the occasional weekend for a serious event, not parties and joy riding with friends but something that he considers more important than anything else.

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(You seem to have forgotten what you actually wrote in the first post; you asked about their right to decide - NOT their right to request. I'm just gently reminding you because I'm good like that :cool: )

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Quoting Dogmatique

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And when your son so blatantly disrespected his other parent, what consequences did he face?

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We had a long talk on respect and how to handle frustration so that we don't say things out loud that we will later regret. I don't talk down about their Father and neither do they with this one exception due to my son's frustration.

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Quoting CPmom

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First of all, I was prepared to follow the court order. I think what I am trying to explain is that my children brought this to me, not the other way around. I said to them that this his weekend and it is up to him to give permission.

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As I recall, you were just telling us that you were going to continue to allow your children to schedule events during their father's parenting time, and intended to intentionally and unapologetically refuse to obey the custody order whenever your children scheduled an event.

If you are now telling us that, instead, you are going to step up as a parent and tell your kids that they need to follow the visitation schedule, that's a sensible decision. If you believe there are aspects of the order that should be modified, you may bring a motion before the court.

I hope that you are teaching you children to respect different religious beliefs, or the lack there of, in others in the same manner that they want their beliefs respected. A person not having the same religious beliefs as you does not make them a bad person. I am 62 and I have seen so much damage done by people who try and cram their religious beliefs down others throats. I have also seen many people changed by the understanding, love, patience, tolerance and prayers from Christians who walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Staying strong in Christian faith is very difficult now days, especially for young people. Your children will have to work and live with others that do not respect their religious beliefs. How they handle that will say more about their beliefs than going to any particular religious event or regular religious service.

Just to be sure it is clear:

When there is a court order for visitation, the obligation is on the custodial parent. The CP (Mom, in this case) MUST send the children at the designated time. It is the right of the NCP to have the children at the times indicated in the order. The CP is in contempt of court if the NCP wishes to see the children at his designated times and the CP does not make it happen.

However, it is NOT an obligation for the NCP to exercise his time. If the NCP (Dad, in this case) CHOOSES not to see the children, or CHOOSES to allow the children to cone at a different, mutually agreeable time, he may do so. It is his RIGHT to see the children at the court ordered times. It is not his OBLIGATION to see the children at those times, any more than it is his RIGHT to see the children during the CP's time. The CP has every RIGHT to say no when it's the CP's time. But not when it's the NCP's time - only the NCP gets to say about that.

Breaking it down; the court has established specific times belonging to each parent. The parent whose time it is, has the RIGHT to see the children but also gets to have final say on whether to do so or not. The parent whose time it is not, is OBLIGATED to abide by the decision of the parent whose time it is.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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I hope that you are teaching you children to respect different religious beliefs, or the lack there of, in others in the same manner that they want their beliefs respected. A person not having the same religious beliefs as you does not make them a bad person. I am 62 and I have seen so much damage done by people who try and cram their religious beliefs down others throats. I have also seen many people changed by the understanding, love, patience, tolerance and prayers from Christians who walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Staying strong in Christian faith is very difficult now days, especially for young people. Your children will have to work and live with others that do not respect their religious beliefs. How they handle that will say more about their beliefs than going to any particular religious event or regular religious service.

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I absolutely agree with you. They do respect other religions and he has friends of other faiths that he has talked doctrine and scripture with. All of this in a respectful manner. The problem here is not that there is a difference of opinion but that there is a difference of opinion between father and son. My son respects that his father has his own opinion now but it frustrates him that until 2 years ago (this is the first year that there has bee scheduling conflicts) his Father taught them that they should be our current religion. He sent me texts and emails to me thanking me for raising them this way and re-arranged his schedule to accommodate these events. For some unknown and inexplicable reason, that he refuses to give to me or the boys, he has done an about face on it. It is frustrating to be taught that one thing is right by both parents and when you start to accept it as your own then one parent changes his mind and wants to fight about it.

I am happy that he is taking an interest in something good and spiritual instead of drugs or crime. They don't swear, they have helped elderly and disabled ones with yard work. They are both willing to help anyone out that asks for it. I am very proud of my kids for the men they are becoming. One day soon they will be good hard working contributing members of society and excellent husbands and spiritual heads of their own when the time comes. It is my job as a responsible parent to train them to be men. They have made a reasonable request with reasonable alternative visitation and when their Dad said "no" they insisted further explaining how important it was. Their Father does not want to explain why they are wrong to feel this way when 2 years ago it was right. So they fight to attend what they feel to be important.