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How to Respond to Identity Theft

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  • 05-04-2016, 04:03 PM
    isitlegalmk
    How to Respond to Identity Theft
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: Ohio

    Well, I never thought it would happen to me but it finally did. Even though I was VERY careful in all my online dealings, someone got a hold of my credit card number and address and fraudulently charged several purchases to my card. Here is the rundown and where I stand.

    I noticed several weird charges to Nautilus Bowflex. I have never used their products or even heard of their website. After calling them and reaching their consumer protection department (ha, what protection) they said they would be unable to give me any info regarding who actually made the purchases without a subpoena. While this was obviously infuriating on my part (seeing how they are essentially looking out for the company interests first, thus protecting the crook), I was able to ascertain some info:

    A) Both items were shipped to two corresponding cities in California, about 170 miles apart (one to Leona Valley and the other to Ramona)
    B) Both had the same email address ending in @Outlook.com (the rep said he had the IP addresses but would not release them)
    C) Both had my billing name and address but someone else under the addresses under both shipments
    D) He stated this is a common scam where people ship them to random locations hoping to steal them off the porch before anyone is the wiser
    E) Both were done online, with my three digit security code from the back and expiration (whoever has it, has all of it)

    So after not getting anywhere with them, I called my local police department. They said I was free to file a report, but a subpoena could only come from a judge and there is no way for them to investigate or follow up with every case of credit card fraud/identity theft. So in so many words, be basically said no one cares enough to follow up, so therefore getting Nautilus Bowflex subpoenaed to release their info they are withholding is unlikely. I assume they do this as they know no one will be able to pry the info from them, thus opening them up for lawsuits and such. The cop also believes that even if I did get the IP address, it's going to be somewhere over in Nigeria or something. Which seems unlikely, if they shipped both to California it seems like the person would have to be in the State in order to steal the product of the porch.

    I did call the bank and canceled the card. They said they'd investigate who filed the charges, but that's not going to be much help as I already know the site it came from. They said that's all they can do, and I'd have to go file a police report (see above). They said since Nautilus Bowflex already refunded the money, so technically I've already been made whole and not a "victim." I find that to be BS. I don't want my money, I want these guys caught and I also want to hopefully be able to find the exact point where they acquired my card info. The FTC was no help at all, as they said they can't investigate small claims and will just send me some booklets (as if that'll help).

    Tell me there's something I can do to hunt these people down. The idea of letting them get away with this is far worse than the prospecting of losing a few hundred bucks out of my bank account.
  • 05-05-2016, 06:17 AM
    Pringle
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    If you don't know the identity of the perpetrators, there's nothing you can do legally, within reason.

    I'm assuming you were able to recover the funds. Your cardholder will take the necessary legal actions, if any.

    This is a common lesson learned by a lot of people. Be more careful next time, and more importantly, use two-step authentication and unique passwords for everything
  • 05-05-2016, 08:37 AM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Quote:

    Quoting isitlegalmk
    View Post
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: Ohio

    Well, I never thought it would happen to me but it finally did. Even though I was VERY careful in all my online dealings, someone got a hold of my credit card number and address and fraudulently charged several purchases to my card. Here is the rundown and where I stand.

    I noticed several weird charges to Nautilus Bowflex. I have never used their products or even heard of their website. After calling them and reaching their consumer protection department (ha, what protection) they said they would be unable to give me any info regarding who actually made the purchases without a subpoena. While this was obviously infuriating on my part (seeing how they are essentially looking out for the company interests first, thus protecting the crook), I was able to ascertain some info:

    A) Both items were shipped to two corresponding cities in California, about 170 miles apart (one to Leona Valley and the other to Ramona)
    B) Both had the same email address ending in @Outlook.com (the rep said he had the IP addresses but would not release them)
    C) Both had my billing name and address but someone else under the addresses under both shipments
    D) He stated this is a common scam where people ship them to random locations hoping to steal them off the porch before anyone is the wiser
    E) Both were done online, with my three digit security code from the back and expiration (whoever has it, has all of it)

    So after not getting anywhere with them, I called my local police department. They said I was free to file a report, but a subpoena could only come from a judge and there is no way for them to investigate or follow up with every case of credit card fraud/identity theft. So in so many words, be basically said no one cares enough to follow up, so therefore getting Nautilus Bowflex subpoenaed to release their info they are withholding is unlikely. I assume they do this as they know no one will be able to pry the info from them, thus opening them up for lawsuits and such. The cop also believes that even if I did get the IP address, it's going to be somewhere over in Nigeria or something. Which seems unlikely, if they shipped both to California it seems like the person would have to be in the State in order to steal the product of the porch.

    I did call the bank and canceled the card. They said they'd investigate who filed the charges, but that's not going to be much help as I already know the site it came from. They said that's all they can do, and I'd have to go file a police report (see above). They said since Nautilus Bowflex already refunded the money, so technically I've already been made whole and not a "victim." I find that to be BS. I don't want my money, I want these guys caught and I also want to hopefully be able to find the exact point where they acquired my card info. The FTC was no help at all, as they said they can't investigate small claims and will just send me some booklets (as if that'll help).

    Tell me there's something I can do to hunt these people down. The idea of letting them get away with this is far worse than the prospecting of losing a few hundred bucks out of my bank account.

    Why do you want to hunt them down if you got refunded the money? That is not your job and you are likely never going to find them. Even IF you could get a subpoena that does not mean you will find the people. They could have easily had it sent to PO boxes or used fake addresses or any number of things.

    You are not a victim anymore as you got refunded your money. Problem solved. I recommend moving on and, as stated, being as careful as possible but it happens. I have had to report fraudulent charges on my credit card before. I got refunded the money and a new card. Moved on with life.
  • 05-05-2016, 11:56 AM
    isitlegalmk
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Quote:

    Quoting qwaspolk69
    View Post
    Why do you want to hunt them down if you got refunded the money? That is not your job and you are likely never going to find them. Even IF you could get a subpoena that does not mean you will find the people. They could have easily had it sent to PO boxes or used fake addresses or any number of things.

    You are not a victim anymore as you got refunded your money. Problem solved. I recommend moving on and, as stated, being as careful as possible but it happens. I have had to report fraudulent charges on my credit card before. I got refunded the money and a new card. Moved on with life.

    I'm not a victim anymore? How can you possibly say that? By your logic, someone can break into your home and rob you, but as long as the police recovery the items and return them to you later the perpetrator no longer deserves to be brought to justice. I can't fathom how anyone could think like that. This is a law forum after all. Isn't that what the legal system is all about? Justice? The idea you suggest that the money is the focus here is crazy to me. It's not about the money at all! How many more people can be spared this if these people could only be caught. I know it's a tall order, but to roll over and not even try seems wrong to me.
  • 05-05-2016, 12:15 PM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Quote:

    Quoting isitlegalmk
    View Post
    I'm not a victim anymore? How can you possibly say that? By your logic, someone can break into your home and rob you, but as long as the police recovery the items and return them to you later the perpetrator no longer deserves to be brought to justice. I can't fathom how anyone could think like that. This is a law forum after all. Isn't that what the legal system is all about? Justice? The idea you suggest that the money is the focus here is crazy to me. It's not about the money at all! How many more people can be spared this if these people could only be caught. I know it's a tall order, but to roll over and not even try seems wrong to me.

    You said they did not consider you a victim anymore. I have been physically abused by my ex-spouse. I do not consider myself a victim - I survived it. I am a survivor. Not entirely the same thing but similar concept in thinking.

    As I stated I have had someone get my card number and use it for items I did not purchase. Guess what I did? I notified the credit card company and told them I absolutely did not make the purchases. Some of them were to porn sites or sex/dating sites that I had not ever even heard of in my life. They refunded the charges. You know what I did after that? I went on with my life. I did not try to track down whoever made these charges. I am not a private investigator. I am not a police detective. It is not my job.

    My point is that you will likely NEVER find out who did this to you because the people who do this generally know how to hide their tracks. You will never stop this problem. You will never catch the people who did it to you. Mainly because the police have more important things to worry about then someone buying Nautilus equipment with your card especially when you got refunded the money.

    If you want to waste time and possibly money on this that is your problem. But legally, there is not much you can do. At all. Scammers like this know how to hide themselves. People have been scamming each other since the dawn of humanity and it will continue.
  • 05-05-2016, 01:17 PM
    Pringle
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Chances are, you are a victim of your own ignorance here. Identity theft happens a lot, and the truth is there's not a lot you can do once it's happened. But you can prevent it.

    You're free to hire an attorney, who can then hire out for Computer Forensic Investigators to work on your case.
  • 05-10-2016, 01:08 PM
    isitlegalmk
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Well, it's clear that I just have a fundamental difference in my outlook regarding what I feel the proper response here should be. However, that's getting us a little off track. I'm not here to litigate our differences. I do have one more quick question.

    I contacted Experian and was unable to get anyone on the phone, just their automated system. It said that they successfully put a three month fraud alert on my account (after entering my social and street address), and would automatically contact the other three credit bureaus as well. Can I trust this or should I follow up with the others? I expect I'll have the same automated response and not have any luck reaching anyone.
  • 05-10-2016, 08:24 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Yes, you will need to make a police report so that the bank/credit card company can make you whole. Most companies REQUIRE this before they will refund your money.

    Once you are whole, you are often considered - LEGALLY - to no longer be a victim as the merchant, bank, or credit card company who are out the money has not adopted that loss.

    And even if in your state they will still consider you a victim, it is simply not practical or reasonable to pursue these matters out of state. The cost to pursue this would be far greater than the actual loss you originally incurred, and the chances of making a case beyond a reasonable doubt is somewhere between slim and none if the larcenists were even moderately competent. And before you ask, NO, the federal authorities will NOT get involved in this. The loss had better be AT LEAST in the high five figures before they'd even consider it. Since this offense may very well be a misdemeanor dollar amount, your state (like mine) may consider it a misdemeanor. Some states still consider such activity a felony (and rightfully so), but they will still lack the resources to investigate them.

    Sorry, but you are not going to get a pound of flesh out of this. This sort of thing happens every day and costs many BILLIONS of dollars (about $16B, in fact), and the authorities lack the resources to investigate even a minuscule fraction of those offenses.
  • 05-11-2016, 01:37 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Quote:

    Quoting isitlegalmk
    View Post
    I'm not a victim anymore? How can you possibly say that? By your logic, someone can break into your home and rob you, but as long as the police recovery the items and return them to you later the perpetrator no longer deserves to be brought to justice. I can't fathom how anyone could think like that. This is a law forum after all. Isn't that what the legal system is all about? Justice? The idea you suggest that the money is the focus here is crazy to me. It's not about the money at all! How many more people can be spared this if these people could only be caught. I know it's a tall order, but to roll over and not even try seems wrong to me.

    I sympathize with you.

    Many years ago my house was burglarized. About $8000 worth of stuff was taken. The police came, examined the broken door, even dusted for prints, and gave me a report number which I gave to my insurance company and later got paid for all the items. Was I pissed? You bet I was. To the extent that my friend and I stayed up all night, with guns, hoping that the bastards would come back. They didn't and, eventually, I (and my family) got over it.

    You know those convenience checks that the credit cards send you? A few years ago they were stolen from my mailbox and were cashed to the tune of about $1600. As soon as it appeared on my account I filed a police report and a written dispute with the credit card company. Within a week the charge was deleted (obviously not my signature on the checks). The criminals were never caught. Guess what, I got over that, too.

    Nobody's saying you don't have the right to be pissed and nobody's saying that criminals shouldn't be caught, prosecuted, and hung from the highest yardarm.

    The reality is that it often happens that they don't get caught and the best result you can hope for is getting your money back.

    At that point it's your choice whether you want to fume (rant, rave, vent) about it indefinitely or have the wisdom to accept that which you cannot change: that it's over and done and you move on.

    Believe that your are a victim, and you are.

    Believe that you aren't a victim, and you aren't.
  • 05-12-2016, 12:22 PM
    qwaspolk69
    Re: How to Respond to Identity Theft
    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Yes, you will need to make a police report so that the bank/credit card company can make you whole. Most companies REQUIRE this before they will refund your money.

    Once you are whole, you are often considered - LEGALLY - to no longer be a victim as the merchant, bank, or credit card company who are out the money has not adopted that loss.

    And even if in your state they will still consider you a victim, it is simply not practical or reasonable to pursue these matters out of state. The cost to pursue this would be far greater than the actual loss you originally incurred, and the chances of making a case beyond a reasonable doubt is somewhere between slim and none if the larcenists were even moderately competent. And before you ask, NO, the federal authorities will NOT get involved in this. The loss had better be AT LEAST in the high five figures before they'd even consider it. Since this offense may very well be a misdemeanor dollar amount, your state (like mine) may consider it a misdemeanor. Some states still consider such activity a felony (and rightfully so), but they will still lack the resources to investigate them.

    Sorry, but you are not going to get a pound of flesh out of this. This sort of thing happens every day and costs many BILLIONS of dollars (about $16B, in fact), and the authorities lack the resources to investigate even a minuscule fraction of those offenses.

    I have reported fraudulent charges on my account and never had to make a police report. I noticed some weird charges, I told them I did not make them. They investigated. I got refunded the money.

    I should have said legally not a victim...that is what I meant once it is resolved.
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