ExpertLaw.com Forums

Ticketed for Simultaneously Parking Two Vehicles With Handicapped Hang Tags

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst Previous ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... Next LastLast
  • 03-27-2016, 07:24 AM
    cdwjava
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    You will note that the plain language of the statute is in the present tense. You can't be transporting the same person in two different vehicles at the same time.

    I think the ticket is valid.

    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.582

    Well, given the specific language of the statute for which the OP was ticketed, I'd say he ticket is NOT valid.

    Quote:

    E. The use or display of a disabled placard or license plate that is stolen, expired, issued to a person who is now deceased, or is otherwise invalid in or upon a vehicle parked in a public right-of-way or on other publicly owned or controlled property is a parking infraction with a monetary penalty of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250).
    Can we show that the placard is "stolen, expired, issued to a person who is now deceased, or is otherwise invalid"? I don't see it. And how is it "invalid" if two placards were issued to the same person?

    I will reiterate: While I believe that it is a dodge that the OP is using to maintain some form of preferential parking for TWO vehicles, it appears that it is permissible by the state since they chose to issue TWO placards.

    The OP is not going to face a hearing for what might be "right," but, instead, for what the LAW states. And the law he is accused of violating does to appear to have been broken. The officer over-reached.
  • 03-27-2016, 07:30 AM
    jk
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    The legislative intent to amending the Statute was to clarify the wording and cut down on abuse of the free parking privilege. While OP has two placards, only one is valid at a time for free parking.

    I point out the tense as being present as opposed to the earlier wording, "used for transport" which is more vague.

    The Northwest ADA Center also says it is unauthorized use:

    Well, neither is being used to transport anybody if they are parked. That is why using a present tense argument does not apply. In fact, the law would be useless if it required it to be being used to transport a person since the law involves parked cars which by definition are not being used to transport anybody.

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Well, given the specific language of the statute for which the OP was ticketed, I'd say he ticket is NOT valid.



    Can we show that the placard is "stolen, expired, issued to a person who is now deceased, or is otherwise invalid"? I don't see it. And how is it "invalid" if two placards were issued to the same person?

    I will reiterate: While I believe that it is a dodge that the OP is using to maintain some form of preferential parking for TWO vehicles, it appears that it is permissible by the state since they chose to issue TWO placards.

    The OP is not going to face a hearing for what might be "right," but, instead, for what the LAW states. And the law he is accused of violating does to appear to have been broken. The officer over-reached.

    question; if a placard is being used unlawfully does it invalidate the placard or is it a matter better described as an invalid use?


    I realize it is a semantics argument but in my mind, if a placard is being used in an improper manner it is not a valid placard. Yes, I will accept an answer that validity is not based on how it is being used but more simply; was it issued properly and has not expired and as such, valid
  • 03-27-2016, 07:44 AM
    budwad
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    In other words, it is a parking statute for the privilege of free parking if you are disabled. But only for the vehicle being used to transport the disabled person. Its vehicle not vehicles.

    Quote:

    Well, given the specific language of the statute for which the OP was ticketed, I'd say he ticket is NOT valid.
    The parking statute makes the use of one of the two placards " otherwise invalid"

    Quote:

    E. The use or display of a disabled placard or license plate that is stolen, expired, issued to a person who is now deceased, or is otherwise invalid in or upon a vehicle parked in a public right-of-way or on other publicly owned or controlled property is a parking infraction with a monetary penalty of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250).
    The placards are both valid but the use of both invalidates one for the purpose of free parking.
  • 03-27-2016, 07:59 AM
    jk
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    In other words, it is a parking statute for the privilege of free parking if you are disabled. But only for the vehicle being used to transport the disabled person. Its vehicle not vehicles.



    The parking statute makes the use of one of the two placards " otherwise invalid"



    The placards are both valid but the use of both invalidates one for the purpose of free parking.

    And that is my argument as well but it is one of semantics. Does the improper use invalidate the permit or is it simply the use of an otherwise valid permit is what is invalid
  • 03-27-2016, 08:30 AM
    cdwjava
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post
    The placards are both valid but the use of both invalidates one for the purpose of free parking.

    And where did you find anything that says that using both issued placards is unlawful???

    If the intent was NOT to allows someone to use both placards, why issue TWO of them??? I personally don't see any practical reason to issue two since the disabled person can only use one car at a time, but, apparently his state allows it.
  • 03-27-2016, 10:09 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    If the intent was NOT to allows someone to use both placards, why issue TWO of them?

    Exactly. Both hang tags are valid. As I previously indicated, there are no caveats, contingencies or restrictions in the governing statutes or regulations.

    To look at it from another angle, state law gives a permanently disabled driver the option of either getting a disabled license plate and a hang tag or two hang tags. There is obviously no reason to issue a hang tag for somebody with a disabled license plate unless it's for use in another vehicle.

    So let's say elderly May Parker has a dinner date with her nephew, Peter. Aunt May has a hang tag on her personal vehicle, which is lawfully parked on the street near her home. Peter picks her up to take her to the restaurant and, when they arrive, she uses her second hang tag on Peter's car when he parks on the street near the entrance to the restaurant. Under the theory proposed here, Aunt May should receive parking tickets on one or both of her vehicles, because one or both of her hang tags would become invalid upon their simultaneous use.

    I understand why people believe that the OP's practice is abusive and unethical, and I can even accept that the use may be inconsistent with the intent of the municipality that drafted the ordinance, but so far nothing has been produced to suggest that a disabled person's hang tag is rendered invalid by the person's simultaneous use of their two lawfully issued hang tags in two vehicles.
  • 03-27-2016, 11:38 AM
    jk
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Exactly. Both hang tags are valid. As I previously indicated, there are no caveats, contingencies or restrictions in the governing statutes or regulations.

    To look at it from another angle, state law gives a permanently disabled driver the option of either getting a disabled license plate and a hang tag or two hang tags. There is obviously no reason to issue a hang tag for somebody with a disabled license plate unless it's for use in another vehicle.

    So let's say elderly May Parker has a dinner date with her nephew, Peter. Aunt May has a hang tag on her personal vehicle, which is lawfully parked on the street near her home. Peter picks her up to take her to the restaurant and, when they arrive, she uses her second hang tag on Peter's car when he parks on the street near the entrance to the restaurant. Under the theory proposed here, Aunt May should receive parking tickets on one or both of her vehicles, because one or both of her hang tags would become invalid upon their simultaneous use.

    I understand why people believe that the OP's practice is abusive and unethical, and I can even accept that the use may be inconsistent with the intent of the municipality that drafted the ordinance, but so far nothing has been produced to suggest that a disabled person's hang tag is rendered invalid by the person's simultaneous use of their two lawfully issued hang tags in two vehicles.

    I don't have any disagreement with your scenario. Why would I? Even with my perspective there is nothing wrong as stated since you have said nothing staying both permits were being used to gain advantage simultaneously.
  • 03-28-2016, 05:38 AM
    budwad
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    So let's say elderly May Parker has a dinner date with her nephew, Peter. Aunt May has a hang tag on her personal vehicle, which is lawfully parked on the street near her home. Peter picks her up to take her to the restaurant and, when they arrive, she uses her second hang tag on Peter's car when he parks on the street near the entrance to the restaurant. Under the theory proposed here, Aunt May should receive parking tickets on one or both of her vehicles, because one or both of her hang tags would become invalid upon their simultaneous use.

    I think that your scenario is consistent with the statute (I disagree with the conclusion) and Aunt May would not be in violation because her use of the second placard is being used on the vehicle being used to transport her to the restaurant. She is not in violation because Peter's car is not registered to Aunt May. One placard and one vehicle in a completely different location to the residence. Even if the car was registered to Aunt May, no violation because different location.

    The ticket that OP received was because both vehicles were registered to him/her and both placards belonged to him at the residence (same location-same block). I do understand you point about the statute though.

    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    If the intent was NOT to allows someone to use both placards, why issue TWO of them??? .

    For the very scenario Mr. K posted; for someone else to transport a permanently disable person. But not to have two free parking spots in front of the residence. Maybe OP will come back and let us know what the court does and says.

    Let me ask you a question. Do officers usually write tickets they know there is no statute or administrative code to enforce them?
  • 03-28-2016, 07:56 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting budwad
    View Post

    Let me ask you a question. Do officers usually write tickets they know there is no statute or administrative code to enforce them?

    Not where I live, though probably some have done it. On the other hand, they do make mistakes and misinterpret the law. Most officers are not lawyers and many of them have not actually read the text each of the laws they enforce. They rely primarily on the training they have received from the academy and their department, which is not all that in-depth; certainly nothing near the training lawyers get. Of course, the skill of officers varies from place to place in this country.

    While there is a strained argument to make that what the OP did violated the ordinance based on the transport language in (B), in my view it is quite weak. But that argument is quite different than the one the officer put on the citation. There isn’t anything in the ordinance supporting his/her contention that it is illegal simply to park two cars with disabled placards that were issued to the same driver. I can understand that the officer may think the OP is abusing the placards, but the officer has not articulated a good legal argument for why it is wrong. Perhaps the officer is convinced it’s wrong and is hoping that the prosecuting attorney will nail down an argument that will work when it gets to court.
  • 03-28-2016, 08:11 AM
    hurricane62417
    Re: Disabled Handicap Parking
    Quote:

    Quoting stealth2
    View Post
    One would think that someone with a disability would be a bit more cautious with the language they use. That is offensive.

    http://imageshack.com/a/img921/7763/725Pe0.jpg

    is there a reason you chose to point out what i wrote to be offensive?
    as if the comment of me not having "common sense" was not meant to be offensive
    is it more obvious that you are a "cheerleader"
    my choice of words no matter my circumstance is exactly that "my choice"
    i hope you used lube to ride the "common sense" commenter's private area...lol
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst Previous ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... Next LastLast
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:08 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2004 - 2018 ExpertLaw.com, All Rights Reserved