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Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 22350

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  • 03-11-2016, 01:47 AM
    Nuu Cyn
    Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 22350
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA

    I basically got pulled over because sheriff thought I was texting. I showed him I was on GPS. I proved that I wasn't texting by showing my latest text which was sent 30+min prior to getting pulled over. He chuckled and proceeded to slap me with a unsafespeed/cellphone ticket.
    Just to clear things up, I wasn't touching my phone but got ticketed for "looking at my phone multiple times and not using a hands free device". Also, the unsafe speed was me driving 25mph in a 45mph area because there were a lot of cars. We were all going about the same speed..

    My record is clean, and I'm lost. I've never seen a ticket in my life and I was just nervous and in shock that he cited me for something I feel I didn't need to get a ticket for.

    Should I send in a letter of declaration/contest? Do I need evidence because I feel this would be based off of 'he said she said' deal. Should I hire an attorney? Or just pay it even though I know I did nothing wrong.

    Im open to advice and appreciate y'all for taking the time to help me out!

    Correction - VC 22350 (not 23350)
  • 03-12-2016, 11:54 AM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hello, Nuu.

    Were you cited for driving 45 in a 25, or what? Please clarify. That code is for speeding. If you got cited only for 22350, it sounds like he believed you about not texting.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • 03-12-2016, 03:38 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 22350
    I don't understand why the officer would cite you for that instead of 23123, which would seem to be the appropriate charge and cost about $200, but you need to stop messing with your phone while driving before you kill someone.

    If I received a ticket for violation of 22350 and the officer documented that I was doing 25 mph under the posted speed limit, I would certainly contest it. My arguments would be something along the lines of "I was driving under the speed limit, road conditions were great, and I did not violate the appropriate law regarding distracted driving. In fact, deactivating an annoying Suri voice is specifically allowed...

    23123.5
    (c) For purposes of this section, a person shall not be deemed to be writing, reading, or sending a text-based communication if the person reads, selects, or enters a telephone number or name in an electronic wireless communications device for the purpose of making or receiving a telephone call or if a person otherwise activates or deactivates a feature or function on an electronic wireless communications device.


    Others might advise differently. Check:

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/show...hone+AND+22350
    and
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/show...hone+AND+22350 (posts 3 & 7).


    Good luck,
    Jim

    *** Note that this post was in reply to another poster, but that poster has since deleted their post. ***
  • 03-13-2016, 12:40 AM
    L-1
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 22350
    Quote:

    Quoting Nuu Cyn
    View Post
    ......got ticketed for "looking at my phone multiple times and not using a hands free device". Also, the unsafe speed was me driving 25mph in a 45mph area because there were a lot of cars. We were all going about the same speed

    CVC 22350 states: "No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

    What the officer is alleging is that driving 25 MPH in that flow and volume of traffic, while looking at your phone multiple times and not using a hands free device, was neither reasonable nor prudent, or endangered the safety of persons or property. As such, you were in violation of CVC 22350.
  • 03-13-2016, 10:52 AM
    Nuu Cyn
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    I was cited for driving 25 in a 45. I had corrected myself at the bottom, noted that it was a 22350 VC. On my citation, he put "VC 22350 - unsafespeed/cell phone".

    At the time I got pulled, I had to have been going 30..which was what the flow of traffic was. I know that they won't accept 'flow of traffic' as an excuse. Seriously, had I gone 45 I would've rammed into the 16 wheeler in front of me, hurting myself and possibly hurting my child (also in the car) sitting behind me. I'm not from that area so I needed GPS on. My exit was coming soon, so I glanced to see how many miles before my exit. Again, I was not touching my phone, I had it laying on the cup holder. The thing is, he knows there were a lot of cars out there. I had counted 3 16 wheelers on the road about a minute before being pulled over. 2 were in the right lane (lane I was in) and the other was in the left. All I remember thinking was 'good thing I left home early'. Then the CHP happened.

    Thank you for replying, Jim! :)
  • 03-13-2016, 11:29 AM
    free9man
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Why not have the volume up on the phone? It gives spoken directions that warn you about turns?
  • 03-13-2016, 11:32 AM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hello again, Nuu.

    So L-1 explained it. Basically, the officer cited you using a very liberal interpretation of the "driving in excess of reasonable and prudent speed" law. He is claiming that driving even 20 mph under the posted speed is too fast if you are using your phone in GPS mode. It sounds to me that he is nearly trying to legislate, rather than just enforce existing law.

    I would argue as I stated above...
    - I was driving well under the posted speed limit.
    - Road conditions were great.
    - I was driving with due regard for weather, visibility, traffic, surface and width of the highway
    - In no event did I drive at a speed which endangered the safety of persons or property.
    - I was not driving while distracted. I was not in violation of 23123, the cell phone distracted driving law, as I did not use an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read a text-based communication.

    If officer says he saw you touching your phone, you will need an explanation for that. 23123.5(c) provides a lawful exception. Bring your call log to court.

    Same thing for Pheebs05 whose thread is here now - http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195112 .

    Sure a lawyer could help you. Can't hurt (anything but your wallet). Personally, I'd contest it myself.

    Drive safely & good luck,
    Jim
  • 03-13-2016, 11:45 AM
    Nuu Cyn
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    hey Jim,

    Should I wait for the court date to fight? Or send in a TBD?

    Thank you-thank you! Appreciate that you've taken much time to help me!
  • 03-13-2016, 11:49 AM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hi, Nuu.

    I can't give you advice about CA procedures, but others on this forum can.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • 03-13-2016, 12:28 PM
    Nuu Cyn
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Got it. Again, thanks Jim! :)
  • 03-13-2016, 01:01 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hey, Nuu. One more thought. Above you state that your "record is clean." While some might say that previous driving record is irrelevant, when defending against a reasonable speed ticket, I think it can matter. Stating in court that "I have over 200,000 miles of driving experience and have not had a moving violation or an accident" would certainly not hurt, and demonstrates prior reasonable judgement. I did not hesitate to mention my spotless record when I successfully defended myself against an in excess of reasonable speed ticket in Maryland before cell phones existed. I was doing 55 in a 55 in the rain in a Mustang and passed an officer.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • 03-24-2016, 11:19 AM
    Nuu Cyn
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hey Jim,

    I'm actually working on my TBWD right now. I was told by a friend to explain what happened prior to getting pulled over, and what happened during it. So I have two questions, if you don't mind helping.

    1) I was believe I was cited for "distracted driving". You said it was more like trying to legislate, I believe he was too. So while driving, I glanced at my phone to check how many miles left (till my exit). I glanced 1-2 times, at least 10 seconds apart. Which is probably why he thought I was texting. Would it be ok to state that I glanced at GPS as if I were to glance at my speedometer, or the time on the dash, or the knob to turn on the headlights when it gets dark? I literally glanced, was not looking hard/staring.
    2) officer let an "issue" slide. He basically let me off with a warning, but said I need to get a valid drivers license. (Just in case you're wondering, CA law requires you to change over within 10 days of moving to the state. BUT my license is valid. I'm a military spouse-we're exempt from changing over to CA drivers license because we, husband and I, are non-residents). I don't think he knows of this law? I did inform him that my husband was in the military but he still told me to change it. Now with all that said, should I also put this detail in; Even though it's not on the ticket, it's part of what occurred.
    3) I know I said I had 2, but just one more question please. Do you think it would matter that I go into detail about what happened, or do judges just want to read/see the evidence contesting the ticket.
  • 03-24-2016, 12:18 PM
    L-1
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    I don't mean to disappoint you, but I'm not sure there is anything you can say that will help and I doubt you understand how CVC 22350 was being applied here.

    CVC 22350 basically says there will be times when conditions are such that it is not safe to drive at or below the posted speed limit. Based solely on what you posted, it would appear the officer believed that you were diverting your eyes from the road to check your phone for a long enough period that it was unsafe to drive at whatever speed you were going. If you look at your citation there will be a box marked "Safe Speed". The number in that box is what he believed was a safe speed given what you were doing.

    It will be incumbent upon you to prove to the court that given due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, you could spend as much time looking at your phone as you did, while traveling at whatever speed you were going, and not endanger the safety of persons or property.

    It will not be enough to simply make a blanket declaration that you did not endanger anyone and that your speed was safe. You will have to carefully articulate why and how no one was endangered and your sped was safe.

    It would have been better if you had requested informal discovery and obtained a copy of the officer's notes and because it was CHP, a copy of their audio recording of the officer's contact with you containing any incriminating admissions you may have made to him. This way you would have a better idea of what you are defending yourself against.
  • 03-24-2016, 03:30 PM
    Nuu Cyn
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    GOT it!!. I'm going to request an informal discovery, then ask for an extension. If I'm found guilty anyway, maybe it's Gods way of teaching me a lesson. I've bought a mount (and followed the law-thanks to this site) and mounted it where it's to be mounted. Shouldn't have anymore tickets, or God forbid any accidents.

    Thank you L-1 and Jim!
  • 03-24-2016, 04:38 PM
    L-1
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    When seeking informal discovery on a CHP ticket, mail a copy of your citation to the CHP office it was issued out of. Clearly address the envelope to “Custodian of Records” and attaché a letter indicating you are requesting informal discovery in connection with the enclosed citation. In addition to any items you feel are necessary to your defense, be sure to ask for:

    1. A copy of the officer’s copy of the citation, including the back side containing any notes he may have made.

    2. Copies of all other notes, reports and other documents prepared by the officer in connection with the matter.

    3. Copies of the MVARS (patrol car dash cam) video and audio recording of your stop (if one exists).

    4. Copies of any personal audio recording the officer may have made during his contact with you.

    Items 1 & 2 will give you an idea as to what the officer may testify to.

    Items 3 & 4 are valuable because during the traffic stop drivers tend to make all sorts of incriminating statements that the officer will offer in court if you deny having committed the violation.

    CHP’s Records Custodians are usually pretty prompt in responding. It’s just a matter of making sure your letter reaches them and isn’t lost in the vast bureaucracy, so make sure your letter is properly addressed to the Custodian of Records so it can be routed accordingly. Usually the only delay is if the citing officer is on vacation and unavailable to get a copy of his “green” which is his copy of the citation and notes.
  • 03-24-2016, 06:40 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Issued an Unsafe Speed Ticket for Using a Cell Phone GPS While Driving, VC 23350
    Hi, Nuu.

    Wow, so L-1 gave you some really great advice. That was really nice of him.:encouragement:

    So on post 12,
    1) I don't have anything I can add relative to what I previously suggested for arguing.
    2) Not relevant. It's a warning anyway, so no biggy.
    3) Detail helps; like L-1 said, you can't just say you did not commit an offense, but you need to explain how and why. Just don't include detail that does not matter with regard to if you committed the alleged offense (like 2).

    Regards,
    Jim
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