Immigration Laws Aren't Fair to U.S. Workers

My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: ..USA

It should be illegal for greedy US traitor companies to hire OPT and H1B visa foreigners over Americans. Right now American IT works are starving while the leeches from overseas are taking advantage of the US work visa programs. Available jobs should be well publicized and US citizens should be hired first even if some training has to be provided. Everybody knows that these desperate people from overseas have false credentials and degrees and experience in more than half of the applications and that no US department is available at the present time to verify their authenticity. Almost 500,000 of these fakesters are in the USA and sitting in countries like India and China and robbing USA blind. Why is there no checks and balances?. Maybe TRUMP will do something. I just read he will on his website.

Trump has more than 500 foreign workers working for him right now as I type. He has been asked about this repeatedly and says every time that Americans just aren't qualified to do the work he needs done. (And what type of work is this that Americans are somehow incapable of doing? Basic hotel maintenance work - cleaning, janitorial, maintenance etc.)

Don't forget both his wives were immigrants. There are some jobs US Citizens won't do.

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Quoting flyingron

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Don't forget both his wives were immigrants. There are some jobs US Citizens won't do.

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Like button. Tee-hee. :D

I am talking about high tech jobs that pay 75k-150k. These jobs are being off-shored and tens of thousands of foreigners from India and China are being given work visas to do them in the USA. Half of these guys are frauds. Everybody in IT knows this. And American college grads and professionals are being sidelined in the name of profit by big corporations that keep doing this for as little as 10,000 per person per salary. Thousands of publicized cases are there in recent years including the most disgusting one at Disney who fired Americans and hired foreign workers on work visas recently.

Well, before it happened to the high tech American folks, it had already happened, with their cooperation and blessings, to hundreds of thousands of garment workers, factory workers of all kinds, if the old "job creators" are given a free hand to operate their businesses any way they want to to make a profit and to maximize that profit so it will you know, trickle down to the working class (ha ha!) they they'll move anything, including hi tech jobs overseas just as quick as they moved all the low tech jobs over there. It's a classic letting the foxes into the hen houses, and in the meantime we are fed this drivel by these same companies and multi millionaires that we are the greatest nation and that we should hate all these awful foreigners. They are afraid eventually we'll accidentally wake up and notice that us and the foreign workers who come over here for a way to survive and the offer of a better life are the same, human beings. And we are all human beings who are being stomped by other greedy human beings who are out to make a profit for themselves. The only interest is self interest, and when principle meets profit, principle does not prevail.

Part of the requirement for hiring these foreign persons is showing that there are insufficient citizens/permanent residents available to hire for the jobs the companies are trying to fill. You can try to seek more vigorous government enforcement of that rule if you like. But simply ending the program and kicking out all those workers is not a realistic option because it is true that companies need people to fill jobs for which there are truly not enough qualified Americans to do them. If we don't bring those folks here to do the jobs, where they pay U.S. taxes and support the U.S. economy by buying goods and services here then the other alternative is that the companies simply relocate those jobs overseas and then those jobs are gone from the U.S. forever.

We live in a global economy. It is hard for some Americans to grasp the truth that other countries have already learned: a nation can’t succeed long-term closing itself off from the world and trying to protect itself from the trends occurring around the world. Trying to force companies to keep work here and pay high wages for it when that work can be done less expensively elsewhere means that U.S. companies would end up unable to compete effectively against foreign firms who can produce the same products and services at a cheaper cost.

For all his bluster about keeping out immigrants, Trump knows I think that he will never actually succeed in doing much of what he promises on that front. He knows the U.S. economy relies on immigrant labor. He’s employed a lot of immigrants himself. The businesses that rely on immigrant labor will lobby hard against any bills that would stop all immigrants from coming here to work.

The better way to ensure Americans have good jobs is to encourage them to learn skills that are in demand in this country and that are not easy to off-shore. There are a number of such jobs, if people bother to learn the skills to do them. I think the U.S. can do a better job in teaching young adults how to find those careers that are in demand and then pointing them in the right direction to prepare for them, as well as providing similar help to people displaced from occupations that are dying in this country.

Change is hard, and the world isn’t going to stop changing just because we wish it wouldn’t. The most successful people and nations adapt to the change instead of trying, kicking and screaming, to somehow prevent it.

In response to Taxing Matters above..

"Part of the requirement for hiring these foreign persons is that there are insufficient citizens/permanent residents available to hire for the jobs the companies are trying to fill"..

The very first statement above in your post is where the fault/deception is...

THERE ARE ENOUGH Americans to do these jobs that are being given to foreign workers..the corporations lie about it to make a profilt..there are thousands of cities in USA where the factories can be located instead of work being off-shored and hundreds of thousands of IT skills that Americans have. Foreign workers get jobs in USA through deception. Nobody is checking..true in half the cases..well over a 500,000 high end jobs. The greedy corporations LIE..to make a profit..that is the bottom line. Thousands of companies in IT recently have fired American workers who are smart if not smarter than the foreigners with work visas that they were replaced with. Its been happening a lot for the past 10 years in IT. Foreigners with work visas get caught with fake credentials a lot..but there are so many of them that it is hard for the USA to keep track of who is capable and who is not. The H1B and OPT visa programs are a big fraud robbing IT workers in the USA for the past 10 years.

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Quoting azzaro

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In response to Taxing Matters above..

"Part of the requirement for hiring these foreign persons is that there are insufficient citizens/permanent residents available to hire for the jobs the companies are trying to fill"..

The very first statement above in your post is where the fault/deception is...

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Which TM followed with: You can try to seek more vigorous government enforcement of that rule if you like. If the government isn't
aggressively enforcing the rules it makes, not much the rank and file can do.

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Quoting azzaro

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there are thousands of cities in USA where the factories can be located instead of work being off-shored

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But there is a shortage of Americans willing to work for the paltry pay the companies would have to pay to be profitable. Like it or not, profit is a company's bottom-line.

I'd love to see the actual FACTS behind some of these ... "claims" .

Care to provide any, azzaro?

[QUOTE=Dogmatique;940377]I'd love to see the actual FACTS behind some of these ... "claims" .

Care to provide any, azzaro?

Google it my friend and you shall find hundreds if not thousands of news articles where this has happened in the past 10 years. I am in IT and it is common knowledge. However, if you really want to know what will happen when TRUMP becomes president (50-50 chance), look on his website. He talks about what I am talking about in detail.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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The better way to ensure Americans have good jobs is to encourage them to learn skills that are in demand in this country and that are not easy to off-shore. There are a number of such jobs, if people bother to learn the skills to do them. I think the U.S. can do a better job in teaching young adults how to find those careers that are in demand and then pointing them in the right direction to prepare for them, as well as providing similar help to people displaced from occupations that are dying in this country.

Change is hard, and the world isn’t going to stop changing just because we wish it wouldn’t. The most successful people and nations adapt to the change instead of trying, kicking and screaming, to somehow prevent it.

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Would you care to explain why IT employees at Disney were given layoff notices and then forced to train their foreign replacements? That wasn't a case of not having enough qualified employees. That was a case of laying off qualified employees and hiring cheaper foreign replacements. And I'd love to know how Disney got away with that, too.

http://www.computerworld.com/article...n-workers.html

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Quoting free9man

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But there is a shortage of Americans willing to work for the paltry pay the companies would have to pay to be profitable. Like it or not, profit is a company's bottom-line.

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That's not what the immigrant worker visa programs are for, to provide cheap labor and displace American workers.

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Quoting geek

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That's not what the immigrant worker visa programs are for, to provide cheap labor and displace American workers.

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I am well aware of that. The thread moved beyond that limited scope to the offshoring of manufacturing. OP then was complaining about that so I was just pointing out an issue with that contention.

There is so much corruption and fraud in the foreign worker visa programs that it is hard to imagine why the H1B and OPT visa programs are still there. Most of the workers from India and China on these visas ( a few hundred thousand) have fake resumes and credentials and do not care who they have o backstab to get these jobs or to get Americans fired (like at Disney). They are a threat to national security and the US economy. All foreign worker visa programmes should be halted ASAP and it should be made really tough to hire a foreign worker over an American.

That's nice. It's not going to happen.

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Quoting free9man

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That's nice. It's not going to happen.

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It will if TRUMP becomes president. It is on his agenda on his website.

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Quoting azzaro

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In response to Taxing Matters above..

THERE ARE ENOUGH Americans to do these jobs that are being given to foreign workers..the corporations lie about it to make a profilt.

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And what is your basis for this claim that there are enough Americans who have the skills right now to do these jobs? Do you do hiring for these jobs and find tons of U.S. applicants knocking down your door for them? Do you know of any good study that shows there are plenty of Americans to do them? Or are you just speculating that there are plenty of skilled Americans to do these jobs? If what you say is true then try lobbying for more vigorous enforcement of the rules for these programs to ensure that companies are really trying to fill these jobs with Americans before they look to foreign persons to do it. I have no problem with that at all. But I think it is unrealistic to simply end the program entirely when there may indeed be some kinds of jobs out there that cannot be readily filled by Americans.

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Quoting azzaro

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It will if TRUMP becomes president. It is on his agenda on his website.

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You do realize that even if he becomes president he does not have the authority to change the law on his own, right? He needs to get a bill passed by Congress to do it, and I can pretty well bet right now that no bill ending these programs will make it through Congress any time soon.

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Quoting azzaro

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Google it my friend and you shall find hundreds if not thousands of news articles where this has happened in the past 10 years. I am in IT and it is common knowledge. However, if you really want to know what will happen when TRUMP becomes president (50-50 chance), look on his website. He talks about what I am talking about in detail.

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You don't even comprehend your own argument.

That's ... a shame. A real shame.

You can go now, if you want.

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Quoting azzaro

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There is so much corruption and fraud in the foreign worker visa programs that it is hard to imagine why the H1B and OPT visa programs are still there. Most of the workers from India and China on these visas ( a few hundred thousand) have fake resumes and credentials and do not care who they have o backstab to get these jobs or to get Americans fired (like at Disney). They are a threat to national security and the US economy. All foreign worker visa programmes should be halted ASAP and it should be made really tough to hire a foreign worker over an American.

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Good Lord I haven't had enough coffee to read such a huge amount of blatant idiocy.

At least have the common courtesy to provide beverages to those who are wading through your posts. Many thanks!

Love,

A NON-American living in the US.

:cool:

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Quoting azzaro

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It will if TRUMP becomes president. It is on his agenda on his website.

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Silly wabbit. That's not the way it works. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump thinks it is but then it wouldn't be the first time he didn't know something.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Good Lord I haven't had enough coffee to read such a huge amount of blatant idiocy.

At least have the common courtesy to provide beverages to those who are wading through your posts. Many thanks!

Love,

A NON-American living in the US.

:cool:

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Tea and scones time?

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Quoting free9man

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Silly wabbit. That's not the way it works. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump thinks it is but then it wouldn't be the first time he didn't know something.



Tea and scones time?

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Best idea of the day so far!

Cbg will be here (literally), in a couple of weeks - we'll be sure to visit the little tea-house in your honour ;)

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Quoting free9man

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Silly wabbit. That's not the way it works. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump thinks it is but then it wouldn't be the first time he didn't know something.



Tea and scones time?

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Sanders agrees with him too. By the way it's a serious topic. I hope you are not mobbed by out of work factory workers or IT workers..Lol..but seriously..We Americans are too dumb to realize we cannot hand out jobs to India and Chinese just because they work at a much lower wage. CHINESE already own the US debt and that means..yes silly wabbit..they can call the shots. The only trump card (no pun intended) is TRUMP (even though he may be a idiot in some respects, tell me which politician did not have some retarded thoughts and views. Most of the wars USA went to were for the most part decisions made by idiots who were ten time more dangerous than our man TRUMP>
Cheers!

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Quoting azzaro

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Sanders agrees with him too.

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That's nice. Still doesn't mean either one of them can snap their fingers when they get into office and undo decades of immigration policy.

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Quoting azzaro

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We Americans are too dumb to realize we cannot hand out jobs to India and Chinese just because they work at a much lower wage.

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We Americans aren't doing that. It is the business leaders who don't give a crap about citizenship or nationality, they only care about bang for the buck. They can and do do that very thing.

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Quoting azzaro

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CHINESE already own the US debt and that means..

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No they don't. That is a myth.

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Quoting azzaro

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yes silly wabbit..they can call the shots.

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They who? The Chinese? No silly wabbit, they don't.

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Quoting azzaro

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Sanders agrees with him too. By the way it's a serious topic. I hope you are not mobbed by out of work factory workers or IT workers..Lol..but seriously..We Americans are too dumb to realize we cannot hand out jobs to India and Chinese just because they work at a much lower wage. CHINESE already own the US debt and that means..yes silly wabbit..they can call the shots. The only trump card (no pun intended) is TRUMP (even though he may be a idiot in some respects, tell me which politician did not have some retarded thoughts and views. Most of the wars USA went to were for the most part decisions made by idiots who were ten time more dangerous than our man TRUMP>
Cheers!

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Would you like some Brie?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Would you like some Brie?

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I would love some. I don't have any whine though.

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Quoting free9man

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I would love some. I don't have any whine though.

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Azzy is supplying plenty of that, apparently.

Where is the "angelic" emoticon, by the way?

US Unemploment rate : 5%
Indians who sheet in the streets because there are no toilet facilities: 30% of 1 billion
Top users of employment visas: ALL Indian companies.
Total fines For frauds by them by the US: a few million (close to nothing).
Revenue they generated for INDIA (not USA) by contracts with US companies (work): 5 billion dollars in 2015...wages that could be paid to AMERICAN IT workers who could have been trained if lacking in skills by the Labor Dept. GREED< GREED and PURE GREED..defines US companies and their policies towards the American labor market.

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Quoting azzaro

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GREED and PURE GREED..defines US companies and their policies towards the American labor market.

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Newsflash: This isn't a newsflash. It has been this way for a long time.

Three articles on OPT and H1B foreign worker visa abuse from recent press:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ign-/?page=all

http://www.computerworld.com/article...imination.html

http://www.the-american-interest.com...-and-the-h1-b/

It should be illegal for greedy US traitor companies to hire OPT and H1B work visa foreigners over Americans. Right now 50% of American IT workers are starving while the leeches from overseas are taking advantage of the US work visa programs by offering to work at bad wages and living 4 people in a room (mostly from India). CEOs of these corporation can then give themselves millions for their own salary. Available jobs should be well publicized and US citizens should be hired first even if some training has to be provided. Everybody knows that these desperate people from overseas have false credentials and degrees and experience in more than half of the applications and that no US department is available at the present time to verify the authenticity of foreign degrees and experience as well as resumes of people from India seeking to work on work visas.

Is it too early to start predicting the 2016 Super Bowl winner? I mean the Browns have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, which leaves 31 .... so ....

Spring training has started.

Is there any tea still hot?

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Quoting cbg

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Spring training has started.

Is there any tea still hot?

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Yes Ma'am! Clotted cream, too. And uh ... whine. Lossa whine here today.

I'll be right there.

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Quoting cbg

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I'll be right there.

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YES YOU MOST CERTAINLY WILL!!! :D :D :D

In the meantime, I have a bunch of honey and olive oil on my head.

Yup.

Oui Monsieur and Mademoiselle !

US Unemploment rate : 5%
Indians who sheet in the streets because there are no toilet facilities: 30% of 1 billion
Top users of employment visas..about 250,000 visas..: ALL Indian companies.
Total fines For frauds by them by the US: a few million (close to nothing).
Revenue they generated for INDIA (not USA) by contracts and by outsourcing of American jobs to India: 5 billion dollars in 2015...wages that could be paid to AMERICAN IT workers who could have been trained if lacking in skills by the Labor Dept. GREED< GREED and PURE GREED..defines US companies and their policies towards the American labor market.

With the exception of one line having a little more added to it, you're just repeating yourself. We care about the same amount as the last time you blathered on about this.

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Quoting free9man

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With the exception of one line having a little more added to it, you're just repeating yourself. We care about the same amount as the last time you blathered on about this.

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This is freaky.

The last time I looked at this thread I had honey and olive oil on my hair.

Here I am, looking at this thread again ... and once again I have honey and olive oil on my hair.

ARE YOU IN MY HOUSE?! Can you see me?! :eek:

:D

One week from today, I will be and will be able to see you.

Well, there appears to be something to this - and it is not just Disney:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us...ents.html?_r=0

http://www.computerworld.com/article...-heats-up.html

And I also have a friend who was a victim of the same sort of thing in Silicon Valley.

While our OP may be a little "off," the subject is a serious one and is something that riles a good number of us and screams for intervention and reform.

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Quoting cdwjava

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While our OP may be a little "off," the subject is a serious one and is something that riles a good number of us and screams for intervention and reform.

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It is true that something needs to be done about it. I think we've all pretty much agreed with OP on that count. It's just that he hasn't chosen the right place to try and do something, plus his near-fanatical tone with regards to a certain presidential candidate I think may turn some people off. OP doesn't listen very well when people point out facts and reality either.