ExpertLaw.com Forums

Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device Ticket on a Metered Entry Ramp

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
  • 02-24-2016, 11:35 AM
    Travis Glover
    Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device Ticket on a Metered Entry Ramp
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Arizona

    I was entering the freeway during morning rush hour and they had the metered ramps active (red light, green light). I was the only vehicle approaching the metered lights and I saw a DPS Motorcycle trooper in the gore point on the on ramp. I maintained a speed of approx. 40mph while moving closer to the light, and as I reached the light it turned green and I continued through, accelerating to freeway speeds.

    The trooper decided he was going to pull me over and ticket me for running a red light, saying the indicator on the rear of the light was red and therefore I failed to stop at a red light. He told me he would write me a ticket for "Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device" rather than a red light running ticket in order to save me time and money.

    My question is, can I take video of this same instance and use it to fight this ticket? I was completely law abiding seeing as the light actually turned green before I crossed the ramp meter stop bar. I understand it's his word against mine, but I feel I have valid argument and can provide video-graphic evidence that the light changes as you approach if you are the only vehicle. (Also there could be a delay in the changing of said indicator light versus the true stop light)
  • 02-24-2016, 11:51 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    I'm also in AZ and I stop at those things all the time.

    Unless you have a date and time video of YOUR approach to the light (like from a dash cam that was on at the time), showing a video made at any other time will be meaningless.

    Lesson for the future. ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.
  • 02-25-2016, 10:53 AM
    Gravity
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    Unless you have a date and time video of YOUR approach to the light (like from a dash cam that was on at the time), showing a video made at any other time will be meaningless.

    It seems like if one can demonstrate a repeatable "malfunction" or in this case proper function of a device, it wouldn't matter if the provided video was of the particular incident that drew the ticket. As in, "See, your honor, here's video of me approaching this light 10 times and each of the ten times the light turned green on approach." Seems like that would establish pretty well the normal function of the device. Unless the officer testifies that there were in fact other vehicles or other conditions present wouldn't it have a good chance of casting enough doubt on the validity of the citation?


    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.

    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.
  • 02-25-2016, 12:35 PM
    donzoh1
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    Quote:

    Quoting Gravity
    View Post
    It seems like if one can demonstrate a repeatable "malfunction" or in this case proper function of a device, it wouldn't matter if the provided video was of the particular incident that drew the ticket. As in, "See, your honor, here's video of me approaching this light 10 times and each of the ten times the light turned green on approach." Seems like that would establish pretty well the normal function of the device. Unless the officer testifies that there were in fact other vehicles or other conditions present wouldn't it have a good chance of casting enough doubt on the validity of the citation?



    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.

    If the officer testifies that there is a red indicator light on the other side he can see and this light only illuminates when the red stop light is illuminated, the OP is toast. It may be that the light can be red or green while a single vehicle approaches. I agree that I wouldn't stop on green without a sign requiring that and I can't imagine a sign requiring that.
  • 02-25-2016, 06:37 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    The ramp meters are red upon approach, and only one car is supposed to pass when the light turns green, according to
    http://azdot.gov/media/blog/posts/20...misunderstood- .

    I think the OP has an excellent case, and it sounds like there is even a chance the meter may be functioning as designed according to the link above. If only one car approaches, the light turns green.

    If OP did not run a red light, that is all that matters, and video evidence proving that this light turns green upon approach by one vehicle seems like a sure win to me.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • 02-25-2016, 06:57 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    Quote:

    Quoting jim_hoerner
    View Post


    I think the OP has an excellent case,


    Nope.

    I've driven those lights hundreds of times, maybe thousands.

    Red to Green to Red to Green, etc, happens in a split second. If you try to time it so you can go through the green without stopping YOU LOSE. Period.

    There's no malfunction. That's how they work.
  • 02-25-2016, 08:57 PM
    Speedy Gonzalez
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    It may really depend on exact location. I've had similar experiences pretty much in all of the western US states where the light has changed on approach before I came to a stop. Usually the exact circumstances are what was stated. Nobody else on the ramp, light changes green before you come to a stop. I've also hit the very end of the timing where both lanes go green (and remain green) on several occasions, and had them turn off at the end of the cycle on a couple occasions.

    The inductive sensor placement has the greatest impact on whether it happens while you are in the time window where they run.
  • 02-27-2016, 01:10 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    OP should try to get video of this light in action. Not sure if there would be a safe and legal spot to do so on a freeway entrance ramp. A first person point of view should be sufficient, one would hope, but several instances of solitary vehicles approaching the light showing it switch to green from the side that matters would seem to guarantee a not guilty verdict. OP could be really nice a post a link to the video here.:) I would like to see these strange metering lights that turn from green to red quickly without a yellow.

    Perhaps officer has video evidence? Without video evidence (officer could have some too), it will be officer's word against OP, which may not end well.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • 02-27-2016, 01:36 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post

    Lesson for the future. ALWAYS stop first no matter what color the light is.

    Quote:

    Quoting Gravity
    View Post

    Good way to get rear-ended, doing that on a green.

    And the person doing the rear ending would be at fault and cited because there is ample warning about 200' back that the metered lights are up ahead and drivers should be prepared to stop when the lights are in operation.

    Quote:

    Quoting jim_hoerner
    View Post
    I would like to see these strange metering lights that turn from green to red quickly without a yellow.

    In this first video (at 1:06) you can briefly see how the lights change from side to side to allow alternating vehicles entry one at a time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sun_TaqL-xc

    In this next video you can't see the lights changing but you can see the cars stopping at the lights (0:16) and alternating on to the highway.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaMC1kSH9bU
  • 02-27-2016, 07:42 PM
    jim_hoerner
    Re: Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post

    In this first video (at 1:06) you can briefly see how the lights change from side to side to allow alternating vehicles entry one at a time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sun_TaqL-xc

    Wow. That is very interesting. It looks like the behavior of the light is location-dependent in the video (2:25) . And at 3:05 they show a sign indicating that two vehicles are supposed to go through a green. Driving is is getting really complicated there, if one has to look at a sign to see if one should go straight through a green light!

    At 3:20, they show some drivers that do not know how to make a proper right turn, ha.

    Thank you very much for those links, adjusterjack. I have never seen anything like it.

    Jim
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next LastLast
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2023 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2004 - 2018 ExpertLaw.com, All Rights Reserved