Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: New Jersey
I was a lifelong PA resident until my girlfriend from across the river (NJ) got pregnant 5 years ago. I then bought a house there for us to live in, to accommodate her older kids (who are now 20 and 15).
When our son was born she quit her job as a cashier in a convenience store to take care of the kids. We later had a daughter together as well.
Fast forward 5 years and things are not working. I did not ever intend to stay in NJ past when GF's younger daughter finished high school (in 2019). If our relationship is ending then I want to move now, for multiple reasons:
*The commute costs money, takes time, and prevents me from getting home reliably to participate in after-school activities. I didn't realize how big a deal this would be when I bought the house but as my kids get older I want to be able to participate fully, and I can't promise when I'll be home.
*Our son will be starting kindergarten in the fall. I'd like him to start in the school district where he'll stay. He is special-needs. The school districts in the PA suburbs are higher-rated than the one we are living in in NJ.
So, I want to obtain primary custody of my children and move with them back to where I'm "from"--which is all of 25 miles from the house. (I've been commuting this distance every day for the past 5 years...it takes 45-90 minutes each way.) The problem in my case is that it's across a state line.
Mom has no job prospects and no realistic probability of earning more than entry-level wages. I don't see how she can support herself and 3 children, even with child support from me. She gets almost nothing ($40/week) for her older daughter. I earn about $100K/yr.
Mom did not have primary custody of her oldest son (the 20-year-old)--he grew up with his father having primary custody. As for the daughter, the dad (different dad) never filed for custody, he's been only minimally-involved in his daughter's life. He lives near our house, in the same school district.
My mom and sister live in PA, maybe 20 miles from where I want to move to. My sister never had kids (early 40s, single) and is very interested in being an active aunt. My mom is also interested in helping out.
Ideally, I'd like us all (GF, kids, plus her daughter) to move to PA (in 2 homes), because I am genuinely willing to have mom involved in the kids' lives. It's a nicer area, with better schools, better jobs, etc. GF's answer is simply "NO"...her latest excuse is she doesn't want to be far from her mom. Apparently, I can have a commute from hell every day, and that's fine, but if her mom (who she sees a few times a year) decides she wants GF's help, she doesn't want to have to drive far.
We have been dancing around the topic, because she has no money to move out unless I give it to her. I'm not going to give her anything unless it's to move to PA, in which case I'll pay everything to get her set up in an apartment, help her with a job hunt, or whatever it takes. I will try to come to an agreement one more time, but expect her to not see reason and leave me with no choice but to file for custody.
I have been a very involved dad, and am basically with my kids every waking second when I'm not at work or commuting. This is going to be a very awkward situation, living with someone while we wait for a custody hearing. But I'm not moving away from my kids and I'm not helping her establish a household in NJ-the current house will be put up for sale if I can get custody and permission to move.
What I am wondering is how realistic my chances are of being awarded custody and ability to move out of state. The house is in Gloucester County, NJ. What can I do to improve my odds? Is there a chance I'd be awarded primary custody but denied permission to move out of state? What if my Plan B is to move to a part of NJ that's farther away than the part of PA I want to move to? I just want to know if I should be doing something other than "call a lawyer" (though I definitely realize I need legal representation for this).
Re: Cohabitating Parents-Dad Wants to Establish Primary Custody and Move Near Work
Quote:
Quoting
GuyGreg
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: New Jersey
I was a lifelong PA resident until my girlfriend from across the river (NJ) got pregnant 5 years ago. I then bought a house there for us to live in, to accommodate her older kids (who are now 20 and 15).
When our son was born she quit her job as a cashier in a convenience store to take care of the kids. We later had a daughter together as well.
Fast forward 5 years and things are not working. I did not ever intend to stay in NJ past when GF's younger daughter finished high school (in 2019). If our relationship is ending then I want to move now, for multiple reasons:
*The commute costs money, takes time, and prevents me from getting home reliably to participate in after-school activities. I didn't realize how big a deal this would be when I bought the house but as my kids get older I want to be able to participate fully, and I can't promise when I'll be home.
*Our son will be starting kindergarten in the fall. I'd like him to start in the school district where he'll stay. He is special-needs. The school districts in the PA suburbs are higher-rated than the one we are living in in NJ.
So, I want to obtain primary custody of my children and move with them back to where I'm "from"--which is all of 25 miles from the house. (I've been commuting this distance every day for the past 5 years...it takes 45-90 minutes each way.) The problem in my case is that it's across a state line.
Mom has no job prospects and no realistic probability of earning more than entry-level wages. I don't see how she can support herself and 3 children, even with child support from me. She gets almost nothing ($40/week) for her older daughter. I earn about $100K/yr.
Mom did not have primary custody of her oldest son (the 20-year-old)--he grew up with his father having primary custody. As for the daughter, the dad (different dad) never filed for custody, he's been only minimally-involved in his daughter's life. He lives near our house, in the same school district.
My mom and sister live in PA, maybe 20 miles from where I want to move to. My sister never had kids (early 40s, single) and is very interested in being an active aunt. My mom is also interested in helping out.
Ideally, I'd like us all (GF, kids, plus her daughter) to move to PA (in 2 homes), because I am genuinely willing to have mom involved in the kids' lives. It's a nicer area, with better schools, better jobs, etc. GF's answer is simply "NO"...her latest excuse is she doesn't want to be far from her mom. Apparently, I can have a commute from hell every day, and that's fine, but if her mom (who she sees a few times a year) decides she wants GF's help, she doesn't want to have to drive far.
We have been dancing around the topic, because she has no money to move out unless I give it to her. I'm not going to give her anything unless it's to move to PA, in which case I'll pay everything to get her set up in an apartment, help her with a job hunt, or whatever it takes. I will try to come to an agreement one more time, but expect her to not see reason and leave me with no choice but to file for custody.
I have been a very involved dad, and am basically with my kids every waking second when I'm not at work or commuting. This is going to be a very awkward situation, living with someone while we wait for a custody hearing. But I'm not moving away from my kids and I'm not helping her establish a household in NJ-the current house will be put up for sale if I can get custody and permission to move.
What I am wondering is how realistic my chances are of being awarded custody and ability to move out of state. The house is in Gloucester County, NJ. What can I do to improve my odds? Is there a chance I'd be awarded primary custody but denied permission to move out of state? What if my Plan B is to move to a part of NJ that's farther away than the part of PA I want to move to? I just want to know if I should be doing something other than "call a lawyer" (though I definitely realize I need legal representation for this).
Moving out of state will be up to the court.
Your best bet, to be brutally honest, might be to just suck up the commute.
With that said, if Mom isn't working has she been the primary caregiver? I don't mean financially.
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
Quote:
Quoting
GuyGreg
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: New Jersey
I was a lifelong PA resident until my girlfriend from across the river (NJ) got pregnant 5 years ago. I then bought a house there for us to live in, to accommodate her older kids (who are now 20 and 15).
When our son was born she quit her job as a cashier in a convenience store to take care of the kids. We later had a daughter together as well.
Fast forward 5 years and things are not working. I did not ever intend to stay in NJ past when GF's younger daughter finished high school (in 2019). If our relationship is ending then I want to move now, for multiple reasons:
*The commute costs money, takes time, and prevents me from getting home reliably to participate in after-school activities. I didn't realize how big a deal this would be when I bought the house but as my kids get older I want to be able to participate fully, and I can't promise when I'll be home.
*Our son will be starting kindergarten in the fall. I'd like him to start in the school district where he'll stay. He is special-needs. The school districts in the PA suburbs are higher-rated than the one we are living in in NJ.
So, I want to obtain primary custody of my children and move with them back to where I'm "from"--which is all of 25 miles from the house. (I've been commuting this distance every day for the past 5 years...it takes 45-90 minutes each way.) The problem in my case is that it's across a state line.
Mom has no job prospects and no realistic probability of earning more than entry-level wages. I don't see how she can support herself and 3 children, even with child support from me. She gets almost nothing ($40/week) for her older daughter. I earn about $100K/yr.
Mom did not have primary custody of her oldest son (the 20-year-old)--he grew up with his father having primary custody. As for the daughter, the dad (different dad) never filed for custody, he's been only minimally-involved in his daughter's life. He lives near our house, in the same school district.
My mom and sister live in PA, maybe 20 miles from where I want to move to. My sister never had kids (early 40s, single) and is very interested in being an active aunt. My mom is also interested in helping out.
Ideally, I'd like us all (GF, kids, plus her daughter) to move to PA (in 2 homes), because I am genuinely willing to have mom involved in the kids' lives. It's a nicer area, with better schools, better jobs, etc. GF's answer is simply "NO"...her latest excuse is she doesn't want to be far from her mom. Apparently, I can have a commute from hell every day, and that's fine, but if her mom (who she sees a few times a year) decides she wants GF's help, she doesn't want to have to drive far.
We have been dancing around the topic, because she has no money to move out unless I give it to her. I'm not going to give her anything unless it's to move to PA, in which case I'll pay everything to get her set up in an apartment, help her with a job hunt, or whatever it takes. I will try to come to an agreement one more time, but expect her to not see reason and leave me with no choice but to file for custody.
I have been a very involved dad, and am basically with my kids every waking second when I'm not at work or commuting. This is going to be a very awkward situation, living with someone while we wait for a custody hearing. But I'm not moving away from my kids and I'm not helping her establish a household in NJ-the current house will be put up for sale if I can get custody and permission to move.
What I am wondering is how realistic my chances are of being awarded custody and ability to move out of state. The house is in Gloucester County, NJ. What can I do to improve my odds? Is there a chance I'd be awarded primary custody but denied permission to move out of state? What if my Plan B is to move to a part of NJ that's farther away than the part of PA I want to move to? I just want to know if I should be doing something other than "call a lawyer" (though I definitely realize I need legal representation for this).
Mom has been the primary caregiver for the children all along. You have little to no hope of primary custody, even if you stay in NJ. There is nothing that you can do to improve your odds. The bolded statement above makes you sound really bad, so be absolutely certain not to say something like that in court. It makes you sound as if you believe that you somehow have a say as to whether or not mom is part of her children's lives, and you have no say so at all.
The fact that you are the breadwinner gives you no advantage either.
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
I feel that mom and I have been equal caregivers, although obviously my presence is restricted by the time I must spend away from the house to work. I would contest her being "primary".
A custodial parent can be enthusiastic, ambivalent, or hostile to the non-custodial parent's participation in the child's life. I am trying to indicate that I would be enthusiastic about her participation. What's a good way to phrase that?
I am looking for resources to get out of the commute, while still raising my children on a daily basis. The worst outcome, IMO, is that I will not get custody and be forced to leave them in her care, while she struggles to survive financially on minimum wage plus child support with 3 kids. I know she won't be able to hold out very long that way, but I am scared of who's going to be watching my kids while she works, and what kind of living situation she'll be forced into. I guess I'll have to hope the court system can anticipate this.
If/when I'm denied primary custody, how many appeals opportunities are there in NJ?
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
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Quoting
GuyGreg
I feel that mom and I have been equal caregivers, although obviously my presence is restricted by the time I must spend away from the house to work. I would contest her being "primary".
You don't have an argument against Mom being primary. Sorry.
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A custodial parent can be enthusiastic, ambivalent, or hostile to the non-custodial parent's participation in the child's life. I am trying to indicate that I would be enthusiastic about her participation. What's a good way to phrase that?
Mom is going to say the same thing, and all else being equal she'll win.
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I am looking for resources to get out of the commute, while still raising my children on a daily basis. The worst outcome, IMO, is that I will not get custody and be forced to leave them in her care, while she struggles to survive financially on minimum wage plus child support with 3 kids. I know she won't be able to hold out very long that way, but I am scared of who's going to be watching my kids while she works, and what kind of living situation she'll be forced into. I guess I'll have to hope the court system can anticipate this.
If/when I'm denied primary custody, how many appeals opportunities are there in NJ?
You can only appeal an error of law. Not liking the result is not an error of law.
Honestly Dad? I don't think you have a chance in Hades if Mom is and has been the primary caregiver and yes, that's what the court will be looking at.
I'm going to be as gentle as I can when I point this out, k? So don't shoot the messenger.
You're criticizing Mom for not working - and then you're critical of who might be babysitting. Yet you're just fine having your girlfriend and her mother help you out while you work.
Do you see the drop-off here?
The court doesn't work on "what ifs", either. It works on "what has already been".
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
Quote:
Quoting
GuyGreg
I feel that mom and I have been equal caregivers, although obviously my presence is restricted by the time I must spend away from the house to work. I would contest her being "primary".
Ok, then you do not understand what primary caregiver means, because its all about the amount of time spent with the children. Mom is the one who takes the children to the doctor, cares for them the majority of the time, washes their clothes, makes their meals etc. You cannot be equal to mom because she is a stay at home parent, and you, by your own admission, do not get home from work at a reasonable hour.
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A custodial parent can be enthusiastic, ambivalent, or hostile to the non-custodial parent's participation in the child's life. I am trying to indicate that I would be enthusiastic about her participation. What's a good way to phrase that?
How about: I believe that children need both parents in their lives as much as possible.
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I am looking for resources to get out of the commute, while still raising my children on a daily basis. The worst outcome, IMO, is that I will not get custody and be forced to leave them in her care, while she struggles to survive financially on minimum wage plus child support with 3 kids. I know she won't be able to hold out very long that way, but I am scared of who's going to be watching my kids while she works, and what kind of living situation she'll be forced into. I guess I'll have to hope the court system can anticipate this.
Dad, the court CANNOT legally consider any of that. For the court to consider any of that would be a violation of mom's constitutional rights. Poor people have just as much right to their children as people who have more money. You will have input as to daycare providers, but you will likely be responsible for the bulk of the daycare cost.
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If/when I'm denied primary custody, how many appeals opportunities are there in NJ?
Dad, you really cannot appeal a best interests decision. You can only appeal if the judge makes an error of law.
I understand what you want. You want to break up with mom, you do not want the commute any longer, and you want your children to be living with you.
Unfortunately, you have very little chance to have all of that. Mom has clearly been the primary caregiver under the law's definition of primary caregiver. You would have a decent shot at a 50/50 timeshare, but not with a 60-90 minute distance between the homes, because that distance is not workable for school.
So, you either give up on the idea of moving the children away from mom, or you give up on the idea of a 50/50 timeshare. I do not believe that you have any hope of getting primary custody.
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
I've never criticized the mom for not working. I've been very grateful to be able to have the children raised by their mother instead of in daycare. I strongly hope we can continue a cooperative relationship in PA. My point is that she will be unable to offer her children anything but grinding poverty without me providing support above and beyond the court-mandated child support. I'm confident that eventually she'll be willing to move 25 miles, but eventually is a long time, especially when it comes to children. So I'm here looking for ways to speed up or sidestep that (via the courts). I see that you don't have any for me so I'm hoping that others may.
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
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Quoting
Dogmatique
You don't have an argument against Mom being primary. Sorry.
Mom is going to say the same thing, and all else being equal she'll win.
You can only appeal an error of law. Not liking the result is not an error of law.
Honestly Dad? I don't think you have a chance in Hades if Mom is and has been the primary caregiver and yes, that's what the court will be looking at.
I'm going to be as gentle as I can when I point this out, k? So don't shoot the messenger.
You're criticizing Mom for not working - and then you're critical of who might be babysitting. Yet you're just fine having your girlfriend and her mother help you out while you work.
Do you see the drop-off here?
The court doesn't work on "what ifs", either. It works on "what has already been".
I should have read further, then I just could have said "ditto".
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
[QUOTE=llworking;933228]Ok, then you do not understand what primary caregiver means, because its all about the amount of time spent with the children. Mom is the one who takes the children to the doctor, cares for them the majority of the time, washes their clothes, makes their meals etc. You cannot be equal to mom because she is a stay at home parent, and you, by your own admission, do not get home from work at a reasonable hour.
I absolutely dispute that. *I* have taken the children to the doctor more than mom has. I'm taking our daughter to the doctor on Friday, as a matter of fact. I make meals and feed the children, get up with them in the middle of the night, get up with them EVERY morning while mom sleeps, etc. I time-shift to reduce the impact of the rush hour, seldom starting work before 11 am. My "evenings" with the children just occur from 7-10 am. And I am pretty much sole caretaker all weekend. I will dispute that mom is any more of a caretaker than I am.
Re: Can a Father Get Custody and Permission to Relocate, Cohabiting Unmarried Parents
Quote:
Quoting
GuyGreg
I've never criticized the mom for not working. I've been very grateful to be able to have the children raised by their mother instead of in daycare. I strongly hope we can continue a cooperative relationship in PA. My point is that she will be unable to offer her children anything but grinding poverty without me providing support above and beyond the court-mandated child support. I'm confident that eventually she'll be willing to move 25 miles, but eventually is a long time, especially when it comes to children. So I'm here looking for ways to speed up or sidestep that (via the courts). I see that you don't have any for me so I'm hoping that others may.
Once again, the court simply cannot, under the law, care about whether or not mom will be poor. If a judge were to make a decision based on the criteria you want to be consider, it would be a slam dunk on appeal. It would violate the constitution.