Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
My question involves a condominium located in the State of: NY
I live in a condo, and for many years the apartment bedrooms have been drafty (particular around the floors). Beneath the floors, they are exposed to the cold air as they are bay windows cantilevered over the first floor. The temperature drops into the 40s in the winter time even with the heat on.
The Board says that the windows and insulation are the responsibility of the Unit Owners, yet my position is that this pertains to the exterior of the building, outside walls, structural members, etc (Common Elements). This would include the insulation that is exposed to the elements outside. I have tried to request to have the floor re-insulated (from the outside), but they have been resistant. One other unit member took it upon himself to re-insulate the floor from the outside, and the Board is using that as an example that it is not their responsibility.
The bylaws state that the Common Elements of the condo will consist of all the Condominium except the Units, the rear yard, the portion of the basements owned by the first floor Unit Owners, and the outside walls and structural members, the roof, the land, buildings and improvements (other than the Units) comprising the Condominium, including the land under the Units and under the improvements, all utility or other pipes and material located outside of the Units, grass areas, and walks.
All maintenance repairs and replacement of the Common Elements of the property including, but not limited to, exterior walls, roof and roof members as well as all maintenance, repairs and replacements to any pipes, wires, conduits and public utility lines, any portion of which is located in one Unit and services another Unit or more than one UNit or so much of any pipes, wires, conduits, and public utility lines as are located in the Common Elements but serves one or more Units as well as patios, terraces, balconies and yards if any, abutting a Unit (except where such repair is caused by the Unit Owner's negligence) shall be made by the Board and the cost thereof shall be a common expense. All repairs to the exterior of any portion of the Condo must be made in conformance with the style and color initially installed by Sponsor, unless changed by the Board. The Board shall be responsible for all plumbing and electrical repairs occurring in the Common Elements.
I am trying to compose an appeal letter to the board, and need your advice. I'm hoping that I can write something with the highest probability of getting approval to insulate two bedroom floors from the outside (note one bedroom has a baby). Perhaps ask them to at least get a quote. The Board has been historically very tight with their money, and expects the Unit owner to insulate the floor from the outside.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
If those two paragraphs are direct quotes from the by-laws or CC&Rs, then you've omitted the most important paragraphs:
The definition of "Unit" and the duties of the unit owner with respect to the "Unit."
Having read hundreds of condo documents in my time as a property claim rep, my guess would be that the Board is correct and the windows and insulation are up to you.
However, I will reserve my final opinion until you have quoted the provisions of the documents that I requested.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
Direct quotes from the by-laws.
A UNIT as hereinafter referred to shall be defined as follows: Each Unit is measured horizontally from the exterior surface of the sheet rock of all opposite walls and vertically from the lower surface of the concrete slab or subfloor forming the lowest floor of the unit to the upper surface of the sheetrock forming the ceiling of the top floor of the unit. Door, windows, interior walls, and electric fixtures which abut a Unit are part of the Unit. The description of the Units set forth herein pertains to the location of the walls, floors, and roof of the Units as they are finally set forth in the site plan and floor plans to be filed simultaneously with the recording of the Declaration.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
Quote:
Quoting
kakashi
I live in a condo, and for many years the apartment bedrooms have been drafty (particular around the floors)
For how many years? How old is this building? Has the problem existed from the time the building was new?
Quote:
Quoting kakashi
This would include the insulation that is exposed to the elements outside.
There is a difference between claiming that insulation has deteriorated for some reason, such that it needs to be repaired, and arguing that even though the insulation is not deteriorated and construction was up to code, the condo association should pay to improve the structure to make it more comfortable for its occupants. If you are trying to make the former argument, what evidence have you found that the insulation has deteriorated?
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
I have lived in the unit for 10yrs. The building is 100yrs old, but underwent a huge renovation in the 1990's to convert building to condos. Many current owners said that the quality of the work was very cheap/poor, and many corners were cut. The drafty rooms have been drafty for all the time I have been here, so I would not say the insulation has deteriorated. As noted before, 1 unit owner took it upon himself to re-insulate the flooring from the outside. It has been a topic that the Board has more or less not addressed for the past 10yrs, but now with the baby here, I want to proactively get this corrected. Therefore, my argument would be that "the condo association should pay to improve the structure to make it more comfortable for its occupants."
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
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Quoting
kakashi
Direct quotes from the by-laws.
A UNIT as hereinafter referred to shall be defined as follows: Each Unit is measured horizontally from the exterior surface of the sheet rock of all opposite walls and vertically from the lower surface of the concrete slab or subfloor forming the lowest floor of the unit to the upper surface of the sheetrock forming the ceiling of the top floor of the unit. Door, windows, interior walls, and electric fixtures which abut a Unit are part of the Unit. The description of the Units set forth herein pertains to the location of the walls, floors, and roof of the Units as they are finally set forth in the site plan and floor plans to be filed simultaneously with the recording of the Declaration.
Note the sentence that I emphasized.
That means you pay for whatever you want to do to doors and windows because they are defined as part of the "unit."
However, the space through which floor joists, ceiling joists, and wall studs pass are common elements (except for partition floors, ceilings, and walls) and are the responsibility of the HOA for repair and maintenance BUT NOT for improvements based on your need for comfort.
Improvements based on your need for comfort ARE NOT part of the definition of "maintenance, repair, and replacement."
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
Excellent points. I will have to look into the history of the insulation more closely. In addition, i have seen cracks on the facade of the building which could result in the deterioration of the insulation, or at a minimum, has allowed cold air into the walls.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
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Quoting
adjusterjack
Note the sentence that I emphasized.
However, the space through which floor joists, ceiling joists, and wall studs pass are common elements (except for partition floors, ceilings, and walls) and are the responsibility of the HOA for repair and maintenance
Can you please better describe why you think the space through which floor joints (and ceiling joints) are common elements as this is where insulation is needed? I'm not quite reading that in the description of the Unit as it mentions the lowest surface of the concrete slab or subfloor.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation
You do realize that the condo association gets it's money from you and all the other owners? So even if somehow you could convince them to insulate that you'll end up paying for it anyway.
Re: Is a Condo Association Responsible for the Cost of Improving Insulation