Charged With Battery After Recovering Stolen Property by Force

My question involves criminal law for the state of: KS

Bicycle was stolen a couple days ago, small town. Information surface today of a possible suspect and location. My son and I drove to see if the property might be there (apartment). Noticed bicycle and got out to ID it. Suspect (teen) first came out, indicated it was his, got defensive, and attempted to ride away. I stopped bike (never touched him) and indicated it may be stolen and we need to contact police (phone in hand). My concern was he was going to go ditch the bike. Mother came out screaming and both mother and son were screaming at me and pulling on the bike to attempt to take it. I explained it was likely stolen and I will stay on scene with the bike until cops arrive. Mother and son threaten me to beat me up, son threatens to stab me. Son says "someone gave him the bike". Mother says I scratched her during all this and I went to jail for a scratch, literally!..... Looking for defense.

I know all the cops here. They felt bad and made this as painless as possibly. I know for sure this lady has cops there every other day. They are a problem. I can tell by how they all reacted that they have issues.

13yo son said to me "mom, I gunna stab this mother f'r" and then reached into his wasteband where i noticed a knife. I then uncovered my concealed firearm and warned him that is not a good idea. It escalated to a point a ridiculous but they pushed this.

Both the woman and son made multiple threats to me and where pulling and working towards taking the bicycle from me. I easily out powered both of them so it is not like we were in a tug of war. I simply held the bicycle in place. After enough threats were made, I pulled the bike from them and put it in the back of my truck, parked within 6ft. Told them again I was just retaining the property until authorities arrive. they still attempted to climb in my truck after it.

I realize what I did was foolish but I am not the thief here. sounds like the kid has a reserved convict number and mom may too. Quite the nut house. Even a 6-7yo boy came out with a baseball bat!!!

Did you get physical with the mother and did you actually scratch her? If so, who initiated the physical contact?

You should have called the police to help you recover the alleged stolen property, that is their job. Was it actually your son's bike and were you able to prove it?

Going there yourself and trying to take a bike that you suspected but had not verified was your son’s bike and from someone whom you did not know was thief (assuming it was your son’s bike) was a very bad choice. Chasing the kid and grabbing the bike was even worse. And getting into a physical confrontation (if that is what occurred) with the mother over it and threatening (by implication) to shoot the kid if he drew the knife was way beyond what should have happened over a suspected stolen bike. If you know all the cops in that town, why didn’t you simply ask them to check out the bike? Surely they would have gone and looked for you, right? That is what you should have done. No bike is worth what happened here. You now face battery charges and unless you can convince the prosecutor or jury that you acted in self-defense or the the physical confrontation never happened at all you may well be convicted on it. I strongly suggest you hire a criminal defense lawyer to represent you on this for your best chance to minimize the impact of this on you. It’s going to cost you a lot more than what it would have cost to replace that bike. Indeed, that stolen bike might have even been covered by your homeowner or renter’s insurance.

Yes, agree with others that you should have called the police.

With that said, don't get too excited and let's see how this pans out. My money says there's 50/50 odds (or better) that this charge is dropped altogether.

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Quoting free9man

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Did you get physical with the mother and did you actually scratch her? If so, who initiated the physical contact?

You should have called the police to help you recover the alleged stolen property, that is their job. Was it actually your son's bike and were you able to prove it?

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I did not initiate any attack on anyone, only stood with the bicycle. The mother and child came out attempting to pull it from me. It was not much of a struggle. My phone was in my hand calling the police during the altercation and I made clear communication to them that neither me nor the bike was going anywhere and I am calling the police. They persisted in trying to take the bicycle from me.

Just left the police station and now the boy that was on scene has been caught lying to the police and did in fact steal the bike and has been proven to be ours. We will get the bike back today. The boy indicated it was abandon in the trees but was not. They are lying about that one too.

The investigator is not doing a good job of fact finding. I had to tell them that I have information that the boys conspired to steal the bike days before and knew who's it was.


I will repeat that never got physical with anyone.

Here is the basic chain of events.

1. An informant indicated a possible area where the bike was. My son and myself visited the area to see if the bike was visible.
2. We noticed a bike that my son adamantly indicates was his. The bike was at an apartment and about 5ft from the sidewalk.
3. We exited the vehicle to confirm identity of the bicycle. We did not touch it.
4. The suspect now ID'd as the thief exited the apartment and I asked him if this was his bicycle. He told me it was his.
5. I told him the bicycle may possibly be stolen and I need to contact the police to work it out.
6. The suspect raised his voice and attempted to escape with the bicycle. I grabbed the handlebars and told him the bike needs to stay here until authorities arrive.
7. The suspect walked away from the bike and went in the residence to get his mother.
8. As I was communicating to the mother that the bike may possibly be stolen, she attempted to grab and pull it from me.
9. I told her I was not leaving and the bike is staying right where it was. I was not going to take the bike, only need authorities to work it out.
10. The suspect's mother escalated the event saying she was going to beat my azz, etc.
11. In an attempt to deescalate the situation and get her to stop pulling at it and get our out of my face, I put the bicycle in the back of my pick up as I was trying to call the police.
12. Bother the mother and suspect were trying to still grab at the bike and remove it from my truck.
13. The suspect then said, "mom, I am going to stab this mother f'r, then displayed a hunting knife in his belt.
14. I then displayed my firearm and said, "son, you don't want to do that".

Authorities arrive.

The mother indicates that when I placed the bike in my truck, her leg was scratched. She engaged the struggle and at several points, I had full possession of the property. She just would not leave it alone.

The suspect has already been discredited for lying and can make no claim to a bike that he stole. The mother indicates someone called her and told her he was giving the bicycle to the suspect. I am still waiting for evidence and records to determine if she actually received a call.

I do not agree with the theft accusation in this matter as it was our property and this becomes more of a repossession situation IMO but I was not about to drive away with the property and made clear communication of that. I had clear possession of the bike and they initiated the altercation.

This was not much of a struggle and I certainly did NOT chase down the suspect. I simply stopped the bike from moving. He was never touched or injured in the matter. I made multiple communications that I was calling the police with phone in hand. My son was standing right there.

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I will repeat that never got physical with anyone.

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I stopped bike (never touched him) and indicated it may be stolen...

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How do you stop a bike without getting physical?

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...mother and son were screaming at me and pulling on the bike to attempt to take it.

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How did you keep them from taking it without getting physical?

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I easily out powered both of them so it is not like we were in a tug of war.

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How do you out-power people or win a tug-of-war without getting physical?

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I pulled the bike from them....

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How do you pull a bicycle away from somebody without getting physical?

That is to say, you got physical.

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I do not agree with the theft accusation in this matter as it was our property and this becomes more of a repossession situation IMO....

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Do you know one thing you can't do during a repossession without creating legal problems for yourself? You cannot breach the peace.

You have a phone in your camera. You can take a picture of the suspect with the property you believe to be stolen and, if they don't stick around for the police, turn that evidence over to the police when they arrive.

At this point, are the police and prosecutor continuing with the charge against you?

When I say "physical", I mean against a person through direct contact. I never touched the suspect. After the suspect freely dismounted the bicycle, I had full possession of it. Then they came back out and both were pulling at it but I was standing over most of it. I fail to see how they (especially the thief) can have any defense for protection of any property. Even if I wrongfully "stole" my own bike, they freely engaged me. I am still trying to determine the KS statutes on lawful repossession of stolen property. I know there is a line drawn for any use of force but force is a gray area here IMO.


I realize when you play internet police, everything else seems like a better idea and I know I made some bad choices here but the reality is I probably would not have gotten a pic in time and was sort of surprised by the event. I did not know if the suspect was going to attempt to ditch the stolen bicycle and did not want it to leave the scene.

The police apologized for the matter but reminded me that the facts in the case are such that I allegedly injured her while she was trying to get the bicycle. Indication is that I scratched her when I put the bike in the back of the truck.

The police IMO did not collect all the facts and still don't even have a statement from me in the matter!! The detective talked to me for 30sec and got a quick rundown before talking with the thieves for 30min. Then I get cuffed. They will pursue the battery charge because they already charged me. It is up to the DA to decide how to handle it.

The way this small down works is cops file charges, DA, depending on odds in the case may look to lessen charges to collect some quick cash. If it goes to trial, the court ALWAYS wins. I have been here before and pretty much banking on filing an appeal with district court. We have a crooked judge.

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When I say "physical", I mean against a person through direct contact. I never touched the suspect. After the suspect freely dismounted the bicycle, I had full possession of it. Then they came back out and both were pulling at it but I was standing over most of it. I fail to see how they (especially the thief) can have any defense for protection of any property. Even if I wrongfully "stole" my own bike, they freely engaged me. I am still trying to determine the KS statutes on lawful repossession of stolen property. I know there is a line drawn for any use of force but force is a gray area here IMO.


I realize when you play internet police, everything else seems like a better idea and I know I made some bad choices here but the reality is I probably would not have gotten a pic in time and was sort of surprised by the event. I did not know if the suspect was going to attempt to ditch the stolen bicycle and did not want it to leave the scene.

The police apologized for the matter but reminded me that the facts in the case are such that I allegedly injured her while she was trying to get the bicycle. Indication is that I scratched her when I put the bike in the back of the truck.

The police IMO did not collect all the facts and still don't even have a statement from me in the matter!! The detective talked to me for 30sec and got a quick rundown before talking with the thieves for 30min. Then I get cuffed. They will pursue the battery charge because they already charged me. It is up to the DA to decide how to handle it.

The way this small down works is cops file charges, DA, depending on odds in the case may look to lessen charges to collect some quick cash. If it goes to trial, the court ALWAYS wins. I have been here before and pretty much banking on filing an appeal with district court. We have a crooked judge.

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You realize you can get charged with battery, even without physically touching someone? What you did can still be construed as criminal.

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I am still trying to determine the KS statutes on lawful repossession of stolen property.

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You call the police, they recover the property.

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I did not know if the suspect was going to attempt to ditch the stolen bicycle and did not want it to leave the scene.

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Had he ditched it and fled the scene, you would have been able to recover it without a confrontation and, thus (assuming it was yours), without a charge.

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The police IMO did not collect all the facts and still don't even have a statement from me in the matter!

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You don't know how many times people who might otherwise have avoided a criminal conviction end up making self-incriminating statements that they believe will exculpate themselves, or how many people make statements that the police interpret as self-incriminating or as contradicting the suspect's other statements, making it much harder (or impossible) for their lawyer to beat the charge.

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If it goes to trial, the court ALWAYS wins.

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You mean the prosecution. No, the prosecution does not always win, but it does happen most of the time. That's in no small part because most defendants who go to trial are guilty -- some, of course, are not, but most are.

Just to work through a couple details. The fact that the mother freely engaged me means nothing? She is free to do that? Then she gets injured in an altercation of her own free will?

Now how exactly do we prove that she did not sustain injury of her own doing by trying to tug at the bicycle? Battery is physical contact from one person to another, not self inflicted.