Slapping Somebody After an Argument

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Florida

I was very recently attacked by large dogs which were off leash (in a public area where they were supposed to be on-leash). The dog owner saw that his dogs were attacking me (charging towards me barking, then jumping up on me), yet did nothing to attempt to rein in the dogs (no "bad dog" or "Down! Down!) or reassure me (No "Don't worry they won't bite"). Instead, he yelled at and insulted me, saying that it was entirely my fault. I shouldn't have presented the dogs with "fear behaviors," i.e. cowering and protecting myself. While I attempted to defend myself and remind him that his dogs needed to be leashed, his verbal, "in-your-face" aggression continued. Finally, I just snapped and slapped him (once) on the shoulder. At this point, he said that I had crossed a line and he either could or would call the police for "assault," (although battery is the correct term, since I never threatened him in any way). After I slapped him, I was shocked. I've never hit anyone before (much less a stranger in public). I wasn't even thinking that I was going to do it. It just somehow happened. After this, I walked away, then came back a while later (the path I was on dead-ended and I had to come back). The man was still there, now filming me with his iPhone as I approached. He said he was gathering "evidence."

I haven't heard anything from the police since this has happened, but am worried that this guy is just crazy enough to file a complaint. Do I have to worry? Is there anything I should do in the meantime? Can I assume that since the police didn't show up at the "scene of the crime," or come to my house since, I am out of the woods? Or do I have to worry about this for some time to come?

BTW, after this incident, I contacted several park officials and described the incident to them. I included the slapping, for which I sincerely apologized, but also wanted to let them know about this man's aggressive behavior. This man did not get my name or address (although he has me on video). The park officials have my first name and both my home and cell phone number.

How long ago is very recently? It's possible he didn't report it or if he did, they haven't connected the proper dots to come speak to you. If they do, say nothing without an attorney. You may be tempted to confess your sin and give your explanation but all that does is give them you confessing to the crime. In my opinion, you shouldn't have slapped him but it could easily be put down to an involuntary defensive response as you were likely jacked up on adrenaline at the time.

If he described things exactly as you did when he spoke to the police, hopefully they told him to piss off and control his dogs. That or pointed out he could also get tickets for failing to have his dogs on a leash if there is a leash law and he decided to drop it. I'd stay away from the are for a little while and don't rock the boat.

It was yesterday morning.

I have already planned not to go back to that park for a good, long time.

I have been very upset for the last day or so, asking myself why on earth did I do that? I am good at standing up for myself, but I am also good at self-control and, like I said, in a previous post, have never hit anyone before whether in public or at home. I am over 50 and have a 100% clean record -- i.e. zero arrests or even warnings. I do not know for a fact, but I think it's likely that it this isolated act of violence was in part triggered by a rebound effect from beta blocker withdrawal. (Beta blockers block the production of adrenaline in the body; thus the rebound effect includes an overproduction of adrenaline.) I was put on a beta blocker (for the first time) a couple of weeks ago after my first ever attack of atrial fibrillation. Since I was having nasty side effects from the medication (and I don't have other risk factors for heart disease), my cardiologist OK'd a tapering withdrawal. I have reduced the dosage even more conservatively than my doctor suggested. Everything was fine until three nights ago when I started have vivid, disturbing nightmares. I don't remember feeling particularly agitated yesterday morning, but it seems likely that all was not 100% normal with my adrenal system. This might also explain why I felt there no intent there. I didn't think: "Gee, I'd really like to slug this guy," then do it. My hand and arm somehow just did it and I was standing there like where on earth did that come from????

Of course, I am now aware of how this beta blocker withdrawal might be affecting my response to aggression, so I am being extra-careful. I am also tapering even more conservatively than before.

If the worst happened, and I were arrested, could this be used as part of my defense?

Of course, I hope I'm not arrested at all, as I am aware of how a simple arrest w/o conviction can still really screw up one's record!

That would be between you and your lawyer to decide.

My advice would be to stick simply to I was scared of the dogs, the man was being aggressive towards me and I panicked. Something along those lines.

P.S. I'd check in with your doc if you are having significant issues with the taper and follow their instructions to the letter.

Thanks for the suggestions. I know keep it simple!

Um... I'm being more conservative than my doctor -- i.e. withdrawing more slowly and carefully than he suggested.

Yeah but once you let them know there are issues, they may want to make adjustments. Guess I wasn't clear. Sorry about that.

OMG, I get so sick of the I took a new pill defense. I take about 25 pills a day, including opiates and multiple benzos'. the idea one pill caused you to break the law and get caught is crazy. Admit it, you bitch slapped him because you lost your cool and hire a lawyer to mitigate the damages.

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Quoting Disagreeable

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OMG, I get so sick of the I took a new pill defense. I take about 25 pills a day, including opiates and multiple benzos'. the idea one pill caused you to break the law and get caught is crazy. Admit it, you bitch slapped him because you lost your cool and hire a lawyer to mitigate the damages.

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Well, I do think your handle is well chosen! :friendly_wink:

If and when you get contacted by police about a complaint the guy filed or you get sued by the guy then that’s when you'll need to start worrying about getting a lawyer and what legal consequences you might face. The fact that he didn’t call the cops on the spot is helpful. If he didn't feel threatened enough to report it promptly then the police aren't likely to consider it worth pursuing either. Hopefully he understands that letting his dogs run loose and jump on strangers puts him in a potentially bad situation, too, should he try to make a big deal out this. Obviously, you want to ensure you don’t repeat this episode.

Thanks again!

I have been thinking even more about this incident and am feeling more and more that it is highly unlikely that he would press charges and even if he did file a complaint, there is little chance that I would be convicted, particularly if I had a good lawyer.

This is what I have realized upon further reflection:

1) After I slapped him, his response was not fear or anger, but glee. He was actually happy to have baited me into crossing a line. After I left, he stayed, probably knowing that I had to come back the same way. If he was so afraid and I was a threat, why did he stay there waiting for me? After I came back, and he was videotaping me, he followed me for about 5 minutes continuing to bait me and videotape me (during this time I did my best to reason with him and did not contact him physically in any way). Again, if I was such a threat, why on earth was he following me around afterwards taping me?

2) About 5 weeks ago, I was struck with sudden sensorineural idiopathic hearing loss in one ear. In addition to the hearing loss, I am also now suffering from balance issues (as well as tinnitus and aural distortions). Just one more reason why I felt self-protective and fearful when his dogs charged, then jumped up on me.

The actual assault wasn't filmed and he doesn't have any bruises or anything, theirs no proof.

If his testimony were not sufficient to potentially support a conviction -- and it is -- you confessed to various park employees.

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Quoting jeremyconnie

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The actual assault wasn't filmed and he doesn't have any bruises or anything, theirs no proof.

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Exactly.

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Quoting jeremyconnie

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The actual assault wasn't filmed and he doesn't have any bruises or anything, theirs no proof.

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There is proof. There is the testimony of the victim, which by itself can be sufficient for a conviction if the jury believes it. There is also the confession made to the park employees. That too, is proof. Forget the idea fostered by shows like CSI that the state needs a video, blood or bruises, or other physical evidence in order to win a conviction on a criminal prosecution. Testimony of witnesses (including the victim) is also good evidence. Courts have accepted testimony of witnesses since the very first known courts thousands of years ago and it remains good evidence today. Whether the testimony will be enough for conviction in light of all the evidence presented is the issue that the judge or jury decides. But certainly it can be.

Right. But the park employees were not there to witness the actual event. They cannot say whether or not the slap was a self-defense reflex. They did not see this guy's dogs charging and jumping me (or not); they did not see him refusing to call off the dogs (or not); they did not see him mocking and bullying me while his dogs were still off leash (or not). They do not know how close this guy was to me when I reflexively slapped him (quite close -- I didn't run over and slap him -- he was "in my face"), they don't know if he was verbally threatening me or not when the slap occurred; they don't know his response to the slap (was he angry? afraid? Happy? -- hint - he was happy); they don't know where the dogs were nor what they were doing when I slapped him; they don't know how much reason I had to fear for my safety; they don't know how much time elapsed between the charge and the strike; etc, etc.

Also, I have spoken with the park officials since. They have told me that this guy declined to press charges. They also said that I was lucky. I could have been arrested although I was clearly in the right and this guy was clearly in the wrong precisely because I crossed a legal line and touched him. They cautioned me not to approach this man in the future (which I was not planning on doing anyway) and to come and talk to them in the future about any problems instead of getting physical. I promised that I would. I also told them that I was going to avoid going to that park completely for some time. I also told them that I realize they have a limited budget, but that they could do more to enforce the leash laws, for example, getting a really good sign and placing it at the entrance to the park. (The current sign is small, unwashed and at the very back of the park). They said that they had had a meeting and agreed to do that.

Also, I have checked on crimereports.com and I do not see that this incident has been reported. I'm thinking that if this guy for whatever reason decided to change his mind and file a complaint 7 1/2 days after the fact, the police might very well not follow up on it.

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Quoting Melisande

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Right. But the park employees were not there to witness the actual event. They cannot say whether or not the slap was a self-defense reflex. They did not see this guy's dogs charging and jumping me (or not); they did not see him refusing to call off the dogs (or not); they did not see him mocking and bullying me while his dogs were still off leash (or not). They do not know how close this guy was to me when I reflexively slapped him (quite close -- I didn't run over and slap him -- he was "in my face"), they don't know if he was verbally threatening me or not when the slap occurred; they don't know his response to the slap (was he angry? afraid? Happy? -- hint - he was happy); they don't know where the dogs were nor what they were doing when I slapped him; they don't know how much reason I had to fear for my safety; they don't know how much time elapsed between the charge and the strike; etc, etc.

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Doesn’t change that what you told those officials is proof that could be used against you. It would be pretty clear from that confession that you did hit the guy. As to the circumstances that lead you to hit him, well, you could testify to that, but your own story here indicates it was not self-defense. The guy did not attack you, after all. He was not a threat to you. You said you hit him after arguing with him, indicating that the dogs jumping on you was over and that your reaction was not fear of attack but rather anger at his reaction. “While I attempted to defend myself and remind him that his dogs needed to be leashed, his verbal, ‘in-your-face’ aggression continued. Finally, I just snapped and slapped him (once) on the shoulder.”

The prosecutor doesn’t need a complaint by the victim in order to prosecute, but in many places a prosecutor will not bother going forward with this kind of case if the victim doesn’t care about it. So, it appears you may be fortunate and not have to worry about defending a battery case here. But if one were brought, it would not be the case as some asserted in this thread that the state would have no evidence of the battery. It would. The issue is instead, as I said before, whether after all the evidence is heard the jury believes you to be guilty. Only the jury hearing that case can determine that. It is certainly possible you would be convicted. Just from what you have said here, I’m not seeing a great self-defense argument for you. Were I sitting on the jury with just what was said here, I wouldn’t buy a self-defense claim. Others might take a different view.

You know, human emotions are complex things. It might not help to present them as complex to a jury. It might help to keep things simple. However, the truth is complex. As far as I can tell, I was both angry and afraid (He was actually yelling at me for being afraid.) However, I was mostly shaken and in a state of emotional shock. I have lived a long time and encountered many obnoxious jerks (whom I haven't slapped, BTW), but this encounter was sui generis. I might explain later if I remember and have the time. But I have to go now.

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Quoting Taxing Matters

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[SIZE=3][FONT=Garamond] He was not a threat to you. You said you hit him after arguing with him, indicating that the dogs jumping on you was over and that your reaction was not fear of attack but rather anger at his reaction. “While I attempted to defend myself and remind him that his dogs needed to be leashed, his verbal, ‘in-your-face’ aggression continued. Finally, I just snapped and slapped him (once) on the shoulder.”

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Some corrections here:

"The guy did not attack you, after all." No, the guy didn't attack me personally. However, he allowed the attack to happen and did nothing to stop it. The dogs were his responsibility. In some sense the dogs were an extension of himself. In fact (and I looked this up), dogs can and have been considered considered "a deadly weapon." I'm not saying that they were a deadly weapon in this case, but to represent the exchange as something purely innocuous, trivial and non-physical that I somehow escalated is totally wrong.

"He was not a threat to you." No, I didn't think he would bite me! Of course, not! But he had the means to control entities that were a threat to me.

"You hit him after arguing with him." Not true. Someone changed the thread title to read: "Slapping Someone After an Argument." That was not my original title for the thread and, again, it isn't true. I slapped him very close to the beginning of a long argument.

"...indicating that the dogs jumping on you was over." Yes, they were no longer jumping on me. But they had been only 60 seconds earlier. Not only that, but they were not under control. They were not leashed and they were around me.

"your reaction was not fear of attack but rather anger at his reaction."
I stated above that I was mainly feeling emotional shock. I wanted him to do one thing and one thing only, something that I thought any normal, reasonable person would be eager to do in the circumstances. I wanted him to leash/control his dogs. I must have said that 5 times in the minute we were standing there. He kept talking over me, yelling at me for being "phobic," and mocking me for my fear. When I finally "snapped," and struck him, I did not knee him in the groin; I did not slap him in the face or anywhere else. I slapped him on the arm that any reasonable person would have put to work leashing/controlling his/her dogs. It was a physical gesture to underscore what I kept trying to get across to him, when words were simply not getting through. So, here is the exchange, although I can't even represent well, since it is hard to textually represent two people talking at the same time.

Me: "Leash your dogs!"
Him: <BLAH BLAH BLAH> "YOU PHOBIC IDIOT"
Me: "In this park, your dogs need to be on a leash!"
Him: <BLAH BLAH> GEEZ. "IF YOU WEREN'T SO AFRAID ...";
Me: "Please, leash your dogs."
Him: <WHY DID YOU EVEN COME TO THIS PARK IN THE FIRST PLACE?? YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE!>
Me: "You need to have your dogs under control!"
etc., for about a minute.

Then, since he wasn't listening to me at all, since his dogs were still loose, I snapped and slapped (on the leash arm).

Above, I said that I'd met a lot of obnoxious jerks before, but this guy was sui generis. It's not just that he was being a total jerk, but had almost instantaneously constructed this strange alternate reality in which I was entirely to blame for what was obviously mostly (if not all) his fault. What came out of his mouth was absolutely and totally unexpected. I have never in my entire life had any interaction that even approached that before. It was as if a purple spotted unicorn just emerged from below the ground (and I was trying to get this fantastical beast to leash his damn dog). A total WTF? moment for me.

A man surrounded is by his hostile/large/aggressive dogs, and you slap, yell at or behave aggressively toward their owner/master? Are you kidding? It's lucky the dogs didn't tear you to pieces after that! I once spoke harshly to someone while my dog was standing nearby, and the dog jumped for his throat!

You're saying it happened at the beginning of a long argument? So the dogs just sat around and waited while you guys yelled and confronted each other? Okay. It is obvious your best interests would've been served by leaving the scene. Most of the people in the world who take beta blockers don't have a crazy and/or suicidal response when they stop taking them. It won't fly well. Don't try it.
Just wait until you hear from them, if you do, then get an attorney, let them guide you.

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Quoting comment/ator

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A man surrounded is by his hostile/large/aggressive dogs, and you slap, yell at or behave aggressively toward their owner/master?

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Once again, I will say that I was not behaving aggressively, except for that one single gesture. It is normal to think: "Oh, she was threatening. Tensions mounted. She couldn't control herself and she took a whap at him." That's what was so weird about the situation, it didn't follow the normal narrative. I was not yelling at him. I was not threatening him. He was threatening and yelling at me, and then I snapped, as I said, and did something totally irrational.

Immediately after that I left the scene. I did not say another word. I just left. Why? Because I was horrified and shocked that I did what I did and I was afraid that things were now going to escalate. So, I walked away. Then, about 5-10 minutes later, this guy and I met up again. By that time, I was calmed down; the dogs were calmed down (I am always at least slightly apprehensive around dogs, but was no longer acutely afraid); the guy was no longer yelling. This is when I noticed he was filming me. And this is when he started following me and asking me more personal questions and we continued to more politely argue about/discuss the dog situation and me (he didn't think I was a "warm" enough person or had enough going on in my life among other things). This is when I left to get the park officials.

But yes, I will not talk to the police if they want to question me. I will hire an attorney and I will let them guide me.